UPS Air Hub Move - From Louisville to Memphis?

[hyena]

Actually I really hope it happens after how that as whom is holding us hostage. I'd love for him to fall flat on his fat face.

Nobody's holding the contract hostage and especially Fred . The Central region doesn't and shouldn't accept this. Were voting this down cause we don't want the concessions. Don't blame Fred, Einstein blame us that want to stand up to corporate greed and fight back! Maybe one day you'll have that fight in you sparky until then complain to Cheryl that people who don't side with you should be labeled trolls and have all their posts modded.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

PHL remains the 2nd busiest air hub behind Louisville. Some of PHL's work had been diverted to Louisville; I wonder if the problems in Louisville could lead to PHL getting some of that back.

 

[89Percenter]

From what I've heard, the situation might be reversed. If Fred didn't grandstand and oppose Hoffa/Hall at every turn -- even if they told him the sky was blue -- he'd be voted out in a heartbeat. I've tried to talk with some of the Local 89 guys about TeamCare via social media and they just don't get it. It's one thing to be pissed at concessions (and this contract had a few of them, even though I prefer being in a Taft-Hartley Plan -- philosophically and strategically -- more than in a company plan) and it's another to accuse Hoffa of trying to bail out the CS pension fund and/or the Mafia (seriously) with TeamCare dollars and GWI diversions, when it's plainly stated in the NMA TA that funds in critical status cannot receive GWI diversions.

None of the stuff I'm reading is mentioning or barely making note of the four year progression, the lack of improved 22.3 language (other than 2,350 new jobs), etc. It's all focused on TeamCare because fear of the unknown is a great motivating factor for getting people riled up.

anonymous is absolutely right. Even under TeamCare, we have the best insurance offered in the country. Our plan makes so-called gold plated Federal employee benefits look like a Dollar Tree hand-me-down.

There's an awful lot of bad information being passed around in Louisville.

Hey Peidmont....

You're either lying or you have done ZERO research prior to your post. GWI diversions are one of Local 89's members greatest concerns and were addressed in meetings and through media. The four year progression is another issue of great importance to the membership. It came up numerous times in the last month's round of 125 full-time jobs which were created as guaranteed under the previous Air Supplement (did your hub get anything close to that?!). 22.3 language was also a major issue because the Air Hub alone has around 800+ 22.3 jobs AND COUNTING. The mafia thing is just moronic....whatever orifice you pulled that out of needs to be checked for disease. Maybe Local 89 members don't listen to you because YOU don't get it. Maybe you should do your research by taking a look around on teamsters89.com and get back with us.

You want to talk about fear as a tool...a post like this, implying Worldport is being moved to Memphis is just that. Luckily, Local 89 members are a little smarter than schmucks like 407sell-out. 407 thinks it would be a great thing if 8000 plus Teamsters lost their jobs to a Right-To-Work state...some union brother there.

As far as Fred not winning elections. The last election, Fred stomped his opponents in a record landslide. Don't speculate on Local 89 politics when you are completely clueless.

Maybe you can't fully grasp how much money has been invested in WorldPort. Tell ya what...take a look at 911Grade ln on Google maps. Does it look like this thing is easily moved? Also, while you're looking at it, understand the complexity of issues that goes on in a facility like WorldPort. It's a vastly different operation than the Ground Centers.

407 Steward...you sound like a Company sap. Business decision this; right-to-work that. You'd be eaten alive if you were an 89 member. Members like you are why this union is loosing its spine. Don't try to dress cowardice as nobility.

 

[89Percenter]

Hey anonymous. I wanted to remind you that your local has campaigned heavily against Right-To-Work. Their home page features MLK's famous quote on RTW. Wishing for Kentucky to go RTW would push us even closer to National RTW. Is that your goal?

I was just wondering what Local 407 thinks of one of their stewards pushing the right-to-work agenda. Gov. Kasich would be proud of you.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

I am surprised at you. You usually hit the nail right on the head. But you missed it big time buddy. Starting to sound alot like 407Troll and Stink.
From what I am reading, they have more issues than the ones that you listed.
How would you like a 4 or 5 hour job where you had to wait to ride a shuttle from the parking lot to work and back taking up to 40 minutes of your time every day without compensation.
Like I said, I had alot of respect for you------before. Now you just seem to be on of the OG cheerleaders.

The shuttle issue is a big problem and should absolutely be addressed in the Air Rider. I based my statements, as I said above, on interactions I've had with Local 89 members via social media. I'm not claiming every rank-and-file member is rattling off bad information, but there is a lot of it out there. Regardless of the GWI language, each diversion would have to be ratified by the affected members local-by-local. The GWI diversion and the rights of the trustees to change our benefits are both necessary in case of unforeseen economic catastrophes. Putting the 22.3 problems, four year progression, air shuttle (pertinent to L89), and other issues aside, much of the opposition to the contract has crystallized around TeamCare.

Additionally, as I stated earlier, our benefits significantly outclass even the much-lauded federal employee benefits offered by the postal service (USPS). I'll be listing the numbers for family coverage although I'll link the total policy below. Full disclosure: there are at least four different postal worker unions covering Letter Carriers (NALC -- the guys that actually deliver your mail) Rural Letter Carriers (the ones that deliver purely on extended/rural routes), the actual sorters/processors/clerks (APWU) and a mail processing/mail handlers union I'm less familiar with.

Here's a side-by-side comparison, using the NALC benefits (with family coverage) as an example:

Premiums (with dependents):

TeamCare: $0
Federal: $115/bi-weekly ($57.50/week)

Deductibles:

TeamCare: $200/yearly
Federal: $200 per ADMISSION (in network, otherwise $350)

Out-of-pocket maximum:

TeamCare: $2,000 OOP maximum/year
Federal: 15% per visit/surgery/incident, with an OOP max of $5,000/year

 

[realbrown1]

The shuttle issue is a big problem and should absolutely be addressed in the Air Rider. I based my statements, as I said above, on interactions I've had with Local 89 members via social media. I'm not claiming every rank-and-file member is rattling off bad information, but there is a lot of it out there. Regardless of the GWI language, each diversion would have to be ratified by the affected members local-by-local. The GWI diversion and the rights of the trustees to change our benefits are both necessary in case of unforeseen economic catastrophes. Putting the 22.3 problems, four year progression, air shuttle (pertinent to L89), and other issues aside, much of the opposition to the contract has crystallized around TeamCare.

Additionally, as I stated earlier, our benefits significantly outclass even the much-lauded federal employee benefits offered by the postal service (USPS). I'll be listing the numbers for family coverage although I'll link the total policy below. Full disclosure: there are at least four different postal worker unions covering Letter Carriers (NALC -- the guys that actually deliver your mail) Rural Letter Carriers (the ones that deliver purely on extended/rural routes), the actual sorters/processors/clerks (APWU) and a mail processing/mail handlers union I'm less familiar with.

Here's a side-by-side comparison, using the NALC benefits (with family coverage) as an example:

Premiums (with dependents):

TeamCare: $0
Federal: $115/bi-weekly ($57.50/week)

Deductibles:

TeamCare: $200/yearly
Federal: $200 per ADMISSION (in network, otherwise $350)

Out-of-pocket maximum:

TeamCare: $2,000 OOP maximum/year
Federal: 15% per visit/surgery/incident, with an OOP max of $5,000/year

This is not better than I have now. So it is a concession. 4 billion in profits.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

This is not better than I have now. So it is a concession. 4 billion in profits.

Then what would you propose, instead? Somehow forcing UPS to continue administering our health insurance benefits?

 

[89Percenter]

The shuttle issue is a big problem and should absolutely be addressed in the Air Rider. I based my statements, as I said above, on interactions I've had with Local 89 members via social media. I'm not claiming every rank-and-file member is rattling off bad information, but there is a lot of it out there. Regardless of the GWI language, each diversion would have to be ratified by the affected members local-by-local. The GWI diversion and the rights of the trustees to change our benefits are both necessary in case of unforeseen economic catastrophes. Putting the 22.3 problems, four year progression, air shuttle (pertinent to L89), and other issues aside, much of the opposition to the contract has crystallized around TeamCare.

Additionally, as I stated earlier, our benefits significantly outclass even the much-lauded federal employee benefits offered by the postal service (USPS). I'll be listing the numbers for family coverage although I'll link the total policy below. Full disclosure: there are at least four different postal worker unions covering Letter Carriers (NALC -- the guys that actually deliver your mail) Rural Letter Carriers (the ones that deliver purely on extended/rural routes), the actual sorters/processors/clerks (APWU) and a mail processing/mail handlers union I'm less familiar with.

Here's a side-by-side comparison, using the NALC benefits (with family coverage) as an example:

Premiums (with dependents):

TeamCare: $0
Federal: $115/bi-weekly ($57.50/week)

Deductibles:

TeamCare: $200/yearly
Federal: $200 per ADMISSION (in network, otherwise $350)

Out-of-pocket maximum:

TeamCare: $2,000 OOP maximum/year
Federal: 15% per visit/surgery/incident, with an OOP max of $5,000/year

So who are all these folks you have had "social media" conversations with? I think you're full of crap. Also...we don't need a comparison to Postal Worker benefits...we need a comparison to the existing UPS Company Plan.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Hey anonymous. I wanted to remind you that your local has campaigned heavily against Right-To-Work. Their home page features MLK's famous quote on RTW. Wishing for Kentucky to go RTW would push us even closer to National RTW. Is that your goal?

I was just wondering what Local 407 thinks of one of their stewards pushing the right-to-work agenda. Gov. Kasich would be proud of you.

Yea I know all about that but if you would go back and find the post you are probably referring to it said that I wouldn't wish right to work on anyone but if it happened in Kentucky after this jackwad Fred Z it would be kinda funny. Big difference Einstein. Oh yea my local sees all of my post on this forum so try again.

 

[realbrown1]

Then what would you propose, instead? Somehow forcing UPS to continue administering our health insurance benefits?

How about ups paying the teamsters enough to purchase the same health coverage we have now. Why can't you seem to get that? TEAMCARE comes close, but ups can do better.

 

[PT Car Washer]

So who are all these folks you have had "social media" conversations with? I think you're full of crap. Also...we don't need a comparison to Postal Worker benefits...we need a comparison to the existing UPS Company Plan. So here you go:

Deductibles/Out-of-Pocket Costs
	UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing)
	In-Network	Out-of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network
Annual Deductible	None	* $250 per person	$0 for 2014-17; 100 for individuals, 200 for family in 2018	10% penalty for out-of-network	$100 for individuals, $200 for family for every year of the contract	10% penalty for out-of-network
* $500 per family
Annual out-of-pocket maximum	$1000 per person	$3000 per person	$1000 per person $2000 per family	$2000 per family	$1000 per person $2000 per family	$2000 per family
Life-time Max (will be "none" under Affordable Care Act in 2014)	$1,000,000 per person	No Cap Under ACA	No Cap Under ACA
* For most out-of-network expenses under Teamcare, the member is charged a 10% penalty plus the difference in what the plan pays and what the doctor charges.
Medical Benefits
	UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing Members)
Physician Costs	In-Network	Out-of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network
Office Visit	Paid at 100% after $10 co-pay	Paid at 80%	$10 co-pay	$20 co-pay plus 10% penalty plus difference in bill	$20 co-pay	$20 co-pay plus 10% penalty plus difference in bill
Inpatient Surgery	Paid at 100%	80%	100%	100% of "reasonable and customary" cost less %10 plus difference in bill.	100%	100% of "reasonable and customary" cost less 10% plus difference in bill.
Outpatient Surgery	Paid at 100%	80%	100% after plan deductible	100% after plan deductible
Allergy testing and treatment services	Paid at 90%	80%	80%	80% plus 10% and difference in bill.	80%	80% plus 10% and difference in bill.
Hospital Costs
Hospital Admission Fee	None	$250 with pre-certification	None	None
Inpatient Service	100% Paid after $10 co-pay	80%	100%	70% plus difference in bill	100% of semi-private room after deductible met. No maximum daily limit.	70% plus difference in bill
Outpatient Service	Paid at 100%	80%	100%	80% plus 10% and difference in bill. 100% after deductible for outpatient cancer.	80%	80% plus 10% and difference in bill. 100% after deductible for outpatient cancer.
Emergency Room Care	Paid at 100% within 72 hours of incident; $25 co-pay after 72 hours	Paid at 100% within 72 hours of incident; $25 co-pay after 72 hours	100% on first day of accident; after first day, 80% after out-of-pocket met.	100% less 10% plus difference in bill on first day. After first day, 80% plus 10% and difference in bill.	100% on first day of accident; after first day, 80% after deductible met.	100% less 10% plus difference in bill on first day. After first day, 80% plus 10% and difference in bill.
Ambulance due to emergency	100%	100%	100% after plan deductible (subject to review)	100% after plan deductible (subject to review)
Ambulance (non-emergency)	100%	80%
	UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing Members)
Maternity
Physician Charges	100% after $10 co-pay (first visit)	80%	100% after plan deductible	90% plus difference in bill	100% after plan deductible	90% plus difference in bill
Facility Charges	Paid at 100% (No Admission Fee)	Paid at 80% after $250 admission fee	None after deductible met	90% After Deductible Met plus difference in bill from room care.	None after deductible met	90% After Deductible Met plus difference in bill from room care.
Preventative Care
Routine Physicals	100% after $10 co-pay	Not covered	$10 co-pay	Network must be used	$20 co-pay	Network must be used
OB-GYN Exams	100% after $10 co-pay	Not covered	$10 co-pay	Network must be used	100% after plan deductible	Network must be used
Well-Child Care	100% after $10 co-pay	Not covered	$10 co-pay	Network must be used	$20 co-pay	Network must be used
Routine Mammograms	100% after $10 co-pay	Not covered	100% after plan deductible	Network must be used	100% after plan deductible	Network must be used
Other Medical
Chiropractic (up to $40 per visit with a maximum of $1000 per year)			80% after deductible met; $1000 per person per year. Out-of-pocket limit does not apply.	80% after deductible met; $1000 per person per year. Out-of-pocket limit does not apply.
90%	80%
Diagnostic x-ray and labs	90%	80%	100% if TeamCare Imaging Benefit or TeamCare Lab Benefit is used, otherwise 80% after deductible.	100% if TeamCare Imaging Benefit or TeamCare Lab Benefit is used, otherwise 80% after deductible.
Hospice Care-Inpatient	100%	80%	80% after deductible; 0% after out-of-pocket is met	70% after deductible	80% after deductible; 0% after out-of-pocket is met	70% after deductible
Hospice Care-Outpatient (8 hours per day)	100%	80%
Skilled Nursing Facility	100%	80%; limited to 60 days per year
Outpatient Private Duty Nursing (560 hours per year limit)			Not Covered	Not Covered
100%	80%
Home Health Care	100%	80%; limited to 120 four hour visits per year	80% after deductible; 0% after out-of-pocket is met	70% after deductible	80% after deductible; 0% after out-of-pocket is met	70% after deductible
Rehabilitation and Speech Therapy (Combined Inpatient and Outpatient)		80%; limited to 60 days per year
90%
Medical Equipment	90%	80%	80% after deductible	70% after deductible plus difference in bill.	80% after deductible	70% after deductible plus difference in bill.
Behavioral Health
	UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing Members)
	In-Network	Out-of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network
Substance Abuse	100%	None	80% after deductible met; must be a Plan approved provider. 21 days per person, per calendar year. Maximum 42 days lifetime.	80% after deductible met; must be a Plan approved provider. 21 days per person, per calendar year. Maximum 42 days lifetime.
Mental Health-Inpatient	100%	None
Mental Health-Outpatient	!00% after co-pay	80%; 40 visits per year	80% after deductible met; must be a Plan approved provider. 30 visits per person, per year.	80% after deductible met; must be a Plan approved provider. 30 visits per person, per year.
Dental
	UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing Members)
	In-Network	Out-of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network
Deductible	None	None	None	None	None	None
Annual Max Per Person	None	$2,500	None	$1500 (does not apply for children under 19)
Lifetime Max for orthodontia and TMJ (Each Dependent Under 19)	$1500 Combined In-Network and out-of-Network	$1500 lifetime max	$1500 lifetime max
Preventative Dental Care	100%	80%	100%	100%	100%	100%
Basic	100%	80%	100%	100%	100%	100%
Major	80%	50%	80%	80% (includes crowns and bridgework). 100% coverage for dentures.	80%	80% (includes crowns and bridgework). 100% coverage for dentures.
Orthodontia	50%	50%	50%; no lifetime max (Children)	$1500 lifetime max (Children)
Vision
	UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing Members)
	In-Network	Out-of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network	In-Network	Out-Of-Network
Eye Exams	100%	$40 max	$10 co-pay In-Network	$25 Reimbursement	$10 co-pay In-Network	$25 Reimbursement
Single-vision lenses	100%	$30 max	100%	$30 Reimbursed	$80 max	$30 Reimbursed
Bifocals	100%	$40 max	$80 max	$40 Reimbursed	$80 max	$40 Reimbursed
Trifocals	100%	$50 max	$80 max	$50 Reimbursed	$80 max	$50 Reimbursed
Frames	100%	$30 max	$100 max	$30 Reimbursed	$100 max	$30 Reimbursed
Contact Lenses Instead of Glasses (standard daily wear)
100%	$60 max	$80	$60 Reimbursed	$80	$60 Reimbursed
Prescription Benefits (New and Existing TeamCare Members)
	$5 co-payment for generic or brand-name (if you generic exists) using any pharmacy in CVS Caremark Network.
Retail Prescription
Mail Order/Maintenance	$0 co-payment for generic or brand name.
Maintenance Medication	For maintenance medication you must use either a CVS Pharmacy or CVS Caremark Mail Service. After your second fill of medication at another retail pharmacy, the co-pay will increase to 50%
Maximum "out-of-pocket" for injectable	There is no copay after member meets $1000 maximum out-of-pocket expense
Short-Term Disability Benefits
UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing Members)
60% of average weekly base pay up to $500 per week. 26 weeks total.	60% of average weekly base pay up to $500 per week. 26 weeks total.	$300 per week for the first 10 weeks. $350 per week for the next 16 weeks. 26 weeks total.
Life Insurance and Supplemental Benefits
	UPS Plan	Teamcare (New Members)	Teamcare (Existing Members)
Life Insurance
Employee Life Insurance	$20,000 3hr; $30,000 6hr	2080 times the hourly rate for "off the street" full-time; 1040 times the hourly rate for part-time. Maximum of $100,000	$40,000
AD&D	$20,000 3hr; $30,000 6hr	2080 times the hourly rate for "off the street" full-time; 1040 times the hourly rate for part-time. Maximum of $100,000	$40,000
Children's Life Insurance	$2,500	$2,000	$2,000
Spousal Life Insurance	$5,000	$4,000	$4,000

You make $30.00 an hour and this is all you have to complain about ? Why not the price of gasoline or the cost of a pack of cigarettes ?

 

[PiedmontSteward]

The "social media conversations" I had were with Local 89 members on the "Vote NO on the UPS Contract" Facebook group.

If you think those plans (existing company plan and the enhanced TeamCare package) aren't comparable*, you're beyond hope. I posted the NALC benefits package to demonstrate what the general public views as "gold plated, overpaid lazy federal employee" benefits. TeamCare is likely the best private-sector insurance available to workers, period.

*com·pa·ra·ble
<a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io:'0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/comparable?s=t&path=/#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/C06/C0695400"><img src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif" border="0"></a> [kom-per-uh-buhl or, sometimes, kuhm-pair-]

adjective 1.capable of being compared; having features in common with something else to permit or suggest comparison: He considered the Roman and British empires to be comparable.

2.worthy of comparison: shops comparable to those on Fifth Avenue.

3.usable for comparison; similar: We have no comparable data on Russian farming.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

How about ups paying the teamsters enough to purchase the same health coverage we have now. Why can't you seem to get that? TEAMCARE comes close, but ups can do better.

I'm not an actuary or an accountant by any means; I'm just a guy that spent way too much money in students loans on a liberal arts degree and slings cardboard for five hours a day at UPS but I'll still take a stab at it: TeamCare is not simply a plan for UPS employees -- there are literally thousands of other workers in different industries covered by what was formerly known as CS H&W. The plan is run by union and employer trustees and those trustees has a fiscal/ethical responsibility to ensure the future survival of the plan. One of the greatest assets of TeamCare are the enormous cash reserves on hand (18+ months); the trustees were asked by IBT if they could "enhance" the coverage for new UPS members. They likely consulted the paid actuaries/accountants/number genies/financial wizards/etc. to do the math on the benefits and realistically/ethically that was the best they could come up with without potentially jeopardizing the same level of reserves moving forward.

Is it perfect? No. Is it a concession? Well.. sort of. It's not the same level of coverage (there are some reductions here-and-there along with the deductible) but I personally feel that it gives us greater leverage not just in 2018 but going forward with UPS. UPS can't try to "tweak" concessions out of our healthcare in the future; the only way they could do so would be by proposing a reduction in their H&W contributions, which would essentially be a net pay cut in total compensation. Additionally, if we ever go on strike, we would maintain our coverage under TeamCare without having to place the burden of COBRA payments on individual locals or on the members in smaller locals that couldn't pick up the tab. This **** is chess, it ain't checkers.

All that being said, I wish people would have flipped out about the ****ing four year progression like they did about TeamCare.

 

[Anonymous 10]

The "social media conversations" I had were with Local 89 members on the "Vote NO on the UPS Contract" Facebook group.

If you think those plans (existing company plan and the enhanced TeamCare package) aren't comparable*, you're beyond hope. I posted the NALC benefits package to demonstrate what the general public views as "gold plated, overpaid lazy federal employee" benefits. TeamCare is likely the best private-sector insurance available to workers, period.

*com·pa·ra·ble
<a rel="nofollow" onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io:'0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/comparable?s=t&path=/#"></a><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/C06/C0695400"><img src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif" border="0"></a> [kom-per-uh-buhl or, sometimes, kuhm-pair-]

adjective 1.capable of being compared; having features in common with something else to permit or suggest comparison: He considered the Roman and British empires to be comparable.

2.worthy of comparison: shops comparable to those on Fifth Avenue.

3.usable for comparison; similar: We have no comparable data on Russian farming.

You are the man now piedmont. I have to give up explaining to these people how good we have it. It's a no win situation. You can't fix stupid and stupid is as stupid does. See you in a little while brother. Vote yes

 

[InsideUPS]

I'm not an actuary or an accountant by any means; I'm just a guy that spent way too much money in students loans on a liberal arts degree and slings cardboard for five hours a day at UPS but I'll still take a stab at it: TeamCare is not simply a plan for UPS employees -- there are literally thousands of other workers in different industries covered by what was formerly known as CS H&W. The plan is run by union and employer trustees and those trustees has a fiscal/ethical responsibility to ensure the future survival of the plan. One of the greatest assets of TeamCare are the enormous cash reserves on hand (18+ months); the trustees were asked by IBT if they could "enhance" the coverage for new UPS members. They likely consulted the paid actuaries/accountants/number genies/financial wizards/etc. to do the math on the benefits and realistically/ethically that was the best they could come up with without potentially jeopardizing the same level of reserves moving forward.

Is it perfect? No. Is it a concession? Well.. sort of. It's not the same level of coverage (there are some reductions here-and-there along with the deductible) but I personally feel that it gives us greater leverage not just in 2018 but going forward with UPS. UPS can't try to "tweak" concessions out of our healthcare in the future; the only way they could do so would be by proposing a reduction in their H&W contributions, which would essentially be a net pay cut in total compensation. Additionally, if we ever go on strike, we would maintain our coverage under TeamCare without having to place the burden of COBRA payments on individual locals or on the members in smaller locals that couldn't pick up the tab. This **** is chess, it ain't checkers.

All that being said, I wish people would have flipped out about the ****ing four year progression like they did about TeamCare.

Thank you for your post Piedmont.. In regard to your comment "Is it perfect? No. Is it a concession? Well.. sort of. It's not the same level of coverage (there are some reductions here-and-there along with the deductible)...

I also once thought that any slight reduction in benefit coverage is a concession however, it was not until I looked at the actual costs involved that it came to me...... a reduction in benefits does not necessarily equate into a concession. For me at least, putting the whole benefit issue in terms of dollars and cents made it easier for me to understand.

Take wages for example, just because we had greater hourly increases from year to year in the past contract compared to this contract, we are still moving in a positive (non-concessionary) direction. This same line of thought goes for health & welfare benefits. If UPS contributes more money toward our H & W benefits but that increase in funding does not pay for the same level of benefits due to inflationary health care costs, I cannot in all good faith blame the Union or UPS. We (the Union) cannot expect UPS to simply come up with X amount of dollars to pay for Y increase of rising health care costs. I understand why many people view it as a concession....but.....translated into dollars and cents.....it is absolutely not a concession.

 

[realbrown1]

I'm not an actuary or an accountant by any means; I'm just a guy that spent way too much money in students loans on a liberal arts degree and slings cardboard for five hours a day at UPS but I'll still take a stab at it: TeamCare is not simply a plan for UPS employees -- there are literally thousands of other workers in different industries covered by what was formerly known as CS H&W. The plan is run by union and employer trustees and those trustees has a fiscal/ethical responsibility to ensure the future survival of the plan. One of the greatest assets of TeamCare are the enormous cash reserves on hand (18+ months); the trustees were asked by IBT if they could "enhance" the coverage for new UPS members. They likely consulted the paid actuaries/accountants/number genies/financial wizards/etc. to do the math on the benefits and realistically/ethically that was the best they could come up with without potentially jeopardizing the same level of reserves moving forward.

Is it perfect? No. Is it a concession? Well.. sort of. It's not the same level of coverage (there are some reductions here-and-there along with the deductible) but I personally feel that it gives us greater leverage not just in 2018 but going forward with UPS. UPS can't try to "tweak" concessions out of our healthcare in the future; the only way they could do so would be by proposing a reduction in their H&W contributions, which would essentially be a net pay cut in total compensation. Additionally, if we ever go on strike, we would maintain our coverage under TeamCare without having to place the burden of COBRA payments on individual locals or on the members in smaller locals that couldn't pick up the tab. This **** is chess, it ain't checkers.

All that being said, I wish people would have flipped out about the ****ing four year progression like they did about TeamCare.

* And by the way, 4 year wage progression was just one of the reasons I have voted no on both the national and supplemental contracts.

 

[realbrown1]

You are the man now piedmont. I have to give up explaining to these people how good we have it. It's a no win situation. You can't fix stupid and stupid is as stupid does. See you in a little while brother. Vote yes

It feels to me that the Evil Empire just recruited Anikan Skywalker to their side.
Maybe we wouldn't be in this situation if 407Troll, Stink and others had originally recommended a NO vote on the national contract to begin with.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

Quite frankly, the 5 year continued coverage benefit for dependents after the death of the primary absolutely balances out any of the benefit reductions under TeamCare. That type of benefit is unparallelled and is going to give me an awful lot of peace of mind if I ever shack up with my old lady.

The only major concession UPS won in this contract was the increase of the FT progression from 3 years to 4 years. They also won two additional weeks to use RTD's (in many supplements, but that's apart from the NMA) in January for the post-Christmas gift card rush without having to give up two weeks in June. I'm not happy about guys already waiting 15+ years for a FT job now having to wait another year for top pay and I'm worried this is going to be a "thing" in 2018 and beyond, but at least it's not a formalized two-tier system for full-timers (we already have a de facto two-tier system with PT/FT) like many other unionized companies have been slamming down the throats of their work forces (think 401K's instead of pensions/capped pay for new hires, as we've seen at Verizon/AT&T/etc.)

 

[cheryl]

Discussion can be animated, which is fine, but we do not welcome personal attacks, on- or off-board. Derogatory, insulting, or belittling statements, directed at other members as well as direct or indirect personal attacks are not permitted on our forum.

It is fine to disagree with a different viewpoint, but please limit this to challenging the idea and not make your comments a personal challenge or make derogatory personal comments about individuals or their choices or circumstances, which disparage their ideas, opinions, their occupation or their personal situation. These examples are not exhaustive. Insulting or disparaging another member is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done. These offensive comments are contrary to the spirit of legitimate, reasoned debate and damaging to the purpose of our community.

 

[realbrown1]

Good comeback buck tooth.

Do yiu think the shareholders want to be held hostage by Fred this contract?? Do you think they will stand for being held hostage again next contract?? That's bad business for ups. I think ups will out smart the hillbilly in the end.

It's good healthcare troll. Better than everybody else has in this country. Yea I said it we have better healthcare than everybody else. Look at yourself.

you really think it's about 70 cents Einstein? I'm going to make 100gr and you think that's what it is. The problem with you is you really haven't been at ups long enough to understand. This site have a lot of old timers but it's younger posters such as yourself that don't have the trials and tribulations yet to truly understand. Now come back with your comeback with whatever but I know I'm spot on about you.

Well troll lets see. Better 9/5 language, harassment, increase in pension, increase in what's paid into the health and wellfair and sure post amongst other things. You know this troll but you are trolling for other things. You have been for a little while now.

Cheryl, I noticed you edited my post. My posts contain just a fraction of what you allow 407 to dish out. But somehow, you never seem to see anything wrong with his posts. And he can't seem to stop dishing out personal attacts. Just look at the above posts.