UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 2012

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Rollover is for after you leave UPS. That is the point of it. You are no longer contributing more to your UPS managed 401k so there is no reason to remain in it and pay higher fees. This IS a retirement topic thread. If you are still working then remain in the UPS managed 401k. You could switch to a different 401k while you are still employed but not worth it because little advantage in fees and you would lose the advantages of direct payroll deductions

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Rollover is for after you leave UPS. That is the point of it. You are no longer contributing more to your UPS managed 401k so there is no reason to remain in it and pay higher fees. This IS a retirement topic thread. If you are still working then remain in the UPS managed 401k. You could switch to a different 401k while you are still employed but not worth it because little advantage in fees and you would lose the advantages of direct payroll deductions

You keep saying this and I'm waiting for you to name some funds with lower expense ratios.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Are you referring to mutual funds? I was referring to the differences between a 401k and an IRA. And you have more investment options with an IRA ( including the same mutual funds) with lower expense fees ( in most cases).

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Are you referring to mutual funds? I was referring to the differences between a 401k and an IRA. And you have more investment options with an IRA ( including the same mutual funds) with lower expense fees ( in most cases).

The IRA itself may not cost much, but the funds that you choose come with their own fees and those fees will be higher than what we pay in the 401K.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

The IRA itself may not cost much, but the funds that you choose come with their own fees and those fees will be higher than what what we pay in the 401K.

Fees won't be higher unless you focus solely on the funds that are stressed in the UPS plan ( like Bright Horizons though I didn't check that feespecifically since I never liked those funds) but you can invest in other funds both load and no load. You can pay higher fees either way. It depends on what you invest in. I am 80% invested in equities now but adjust my investments 2-4 times per year.

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Fees won't be higher unless you focus solely on the funds that are stressed in the UPS plan ( like Bright Horizons though I didn't check that feespecifically since I never liked those funds) but you can invest in other funds both load and no load. You can pay higher fees either way. It depends on what you invest in. I am 80% invested in equities now but adjust my investments 2-4 times per year.

The expense ratios for the S&P 500, the MidCap 400, and the Russell 2000 in the 401K are .01%, .02% and .04% respectively. If you have some funds with lower ERs in your IRA I'd love to hear about them because I will start an IRA today if that's the case.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

I am not in those index funds. I agree it would be stupid to pay a fee for management of an index fund which has little active management. Index funds can be cheaper with 401k but not always, but again I am not invested in index funds.

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

I am not in those index funds. I agree it would be stupid to pay a fee for management of an index fund which has little active management. Index funds can be cheaper with 401k but not always, but again I am not invested in index funds.

I didn't ask if you were in those funds, I asked if you had funds with lower ERs because you keep saying that you pay lower fees in an IRA.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

I pay no maintenance fee for my IRA because it is through my bank because of my account balance. The only fees would be due to individual investments.

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

I pay no maintenance fee for my IRA because it is through my bank because of my account balance. The only fees would be due to individual investments.

In other words you're paying (significantly) higher fees on your mutual funds than what we pay in the 401K.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

In other words you're paying (significantly) higher fees on your mutual funds than what we pay in the 401K.

Again, I am not primarily invested in mutual funds and not in index funds. And the fees I pay when I invest are the same or lower. I primarily save on lack of maintenance fees.

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Again, I am not primarily invested in mutual funds and not in index funds. And the fees I pay when I invest are the same or lower. I primarily save on lack of maintenance fees.

You're still not providing any numbers which suggests to me that you're not really paying less in total fees.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

there is no simple answer. It depends

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

there is no simple answer. It depends

If there is no simple answer then why are you saying things like this:

401k is good also but after you retire should be rolled over into an IRA.

Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f71/...2-86-2012-a-348550/index39.html#ixzz2YU1DxRAb
​

because that is simply not true. If it was you would be able to back it up with some numbers and so far I haven't seen it.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Lower fees. Your 401k plan has administrative fees that will cut into your investment returns over the years. If you roll over your money to an IRA, you may be able to avoid paying administrative costs, especially if you don't sign up for investment management at a brokerage. Also, some 401k plans charge an extra maintenance fee once you are no longer an employee. Check with your company to see if this fee applies to your plan.

7 reasons to roll over your 401k - - MSN Money

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Lower fees. Your 401k plan has administrative fees that will cut into your investment returns over the years. If you roll over your money to an IRA, you may be able to avoid paying administrative costs, especially if you don't sign up for investment management at a brokerage. Also, some 401k plans charge an extra maintenance fee once you are no longer an employee. Check with your company to see if this fee applies to your plan.

7 reasons to roll over your 401k - - MSN Money

Read that article, most of their reasons don't apply to our plan. We have a very low admin fee and the ERs on our mutual funds are unbeatable, you won't be able to get anything close in your IRA.
Sure we have administrative fees, but I guarantee they work out to less than the fees you will pay for the mutual funds in your IRA. By a large margin.
Once again you are avoiding showing any numbers and at this point I think I know why.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Read that article, most of their reasons don't apply to our plan. We have a very low admin fee and the ERs on our mutual funds are unbeatable, you won't be able to get anything close in your IRA.
Sure we have administrative fees, but I guarantee they work out to less than the fees you will pay for the mutual funds in your IRA. By a large margin.
Once again you are avoiding showing any numbers and at this point I think I know why.

Again, I have little invested in mutual funds. And I pay 0 in administrative fees. 0 is a number. From what I saw other fees were equal to or less than the UPS plan. Why don't you post some numbers explaining why a 401k is better after you retire?

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

Again, I have little invested in mutual funds. And I pay 0 in administrative fees. 0 is a number. From what I saw other fees were equal to or less than the UPS plan. Why don't you post some numbers explaining why a 401k is better after you retire?

What other fees? Post them.
I already posted the ERs for 3 index funds, the admin fee is about $25 per year.
You said that you are in passively managed non index funds which means that you are in sector funds. The lowest ER I could find on a sector fund was vanguard's REIT at .24%.
100K invested in that fund would cost you $240 per year in fees. The same 100K in our S&P would cost $10 per year, add the admin fee and you're at $35.
$35 vs $240. That's a number.
Anyone can get a no fee IRA, that's easy. It's what you put in that IRA that makes the difference.
I'll say it again, if you want to be a trader then yeah it might make sense to to move on. But most people aren't, and telling someone who is going to stay invested in mutual funds that they should roll over to an IRA is terrible advice because they'll be walking away from the best deal in town.

 

[oldngray]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

"You said that you are in passively managed non index funds which means that you are in sector funds." Read what I said again. I said I wasn't in index funds but used them as the examples you posted. I said it would be stupid to pay very much in administrative fees for a non managed index funds.

 

[Jones]

Re: UPS/Teamster 401k...Prudential to a Dreyfus self managed account...+22.86% for 20

"You said that you are in passively managed non index funds which means that you are in sector funds." Read what I said again. I said I wasn't in index funds but used them as the examples you posted. I said it would be stupid to pay very much in administrative fees for a non managed index funds.

I did read what you said:

I moved into an IRA and have lower fees and since it is linked to my bank I get a lot of perks from the bank because of the account balances. I am not in managed funds and have a mix of mutual funds and stocks.

I am not in those index funds. I agree it would be stupid to pay a fee for management of an index fund which has little active management. Index funds can be cheaper with 401k but not always, but again I am not invested in index funds.

If they are not managed and they are not index then they are almost certainly sector funds.
Bottom line is that you are paying more in fees than someone in the 401k who is invested in the indexes.