UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
In the next three years, my center will be hiring 7.
No, Dave. That doesn't include my position.
A lot can change in 7 years.
I don't even know which position you prefer.
UPS, Teamsters to Restructure New England Pension Plan
- Thread starter Sammy
- Start date
A lot can change in 7 years.
I don't even know which position you prefer.
menotyou
bella amicizia
I'm just back from the meeting at the union hall regarding this. A lot of information! Here are some of the points I remember (should have taken notes):
We will continue to receive an accrual of $248/month ($124 for p/t) for a pension. We have been getting this for the last 7-10 years, and it is guaranteed to continue for the next 10 years. UPS cannot pull out of this for ten years, and will most likely NOT pull out even then because there is a huge pull-out penalty.
It is seamless in that even though you are now in the new liability pool, all your time in the old pool still counts ie you will get one pension check each month.
If you are already retired, you are in the old pool and have nothing to do with the new. Might not have been any retirees there, cuz no-one got up to question that.
20 other companies have expressed interest, or are currently negotiating to also do this.
The attorney said locals from all over the country have been calling him asking how we did it, because UPS won't even talk to them about it.
I was the observer to the vote count, so I can tell you it passed 152 to 8. Seems like a crap turnout, but it is a holiday weekend AND we only got a few days notice of the meeting. It all has to be approved by Sept 16. After Sept, UPS's withdrawal fee gets a lot bigger.
If y'all have any questions, I'll try to answer. I'm actually hoping JonFrum was there, cuz he's wikked good at this stuff!
We will continue to receive an accrual of $248/month ($124 for p/t) for a pension. We have been getting this for the last 7-10 years, and it is guaranteed to continue for the next 10 years. UPS cannot pull out of this for ten years, and will most likely NOT pull out even then because there is a huge pull-out penalty.
It is seamless in that even though you are now in the new liability pool, all your time in the old pool still counts ie you will get one pension check each month.
If you are already retired, you are in the old pool and have nothing to do with the new. Might not have been any retirees there, cuz no-one got up to question that.
20 other companies have expressed interest, or are currently negotiating to also do this.
The attorney said locals from all over the country have been calling him asking how we did it, because UPS won't even talk to them about it.
I was the observer to the vote count, so I can tell you it passed 152 to 8. Seems like a crap turnout, but it is a holiday weekend AND we only got a few days notice of the meeting. It all has to be approved by Sept 16. After Sept, UPS's withdrawal fee gets a lot bigger.
If y'all have any questions, I'll try to answer. I'm actually hoping JonFrum was there, cuz he's wikked good at this stuff!
UnconTROLLed
perfection
That wasn't a local #25 meeting only? JonFrum isn't #25, that is why I ask.
the line regarding the atty and "UPS not talking to other locals about it" is sensationalism
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
The company can withdraw from the new pool/plan in 10 years. The so called big penalty is chump change for UPS. After already paying $500 million it will only cost them $115 million a year for the next 20 years to withdraw. Look for UPS to terminate the fund at that time.
What this does for the union is give them a marketing tool to a attract new business and members for 10 years using UPS as the marquee anchor in a plan free from legacy liabilities.
Spot on brother. This has been suggested with other multi-employer plans exactly as you describe, and it just might work.
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
As for the pension fund; well...just relax it will be over soon. Enjoy the sun setting over our defined benefit.
[video=youtube;YjciQMz_irU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjciQMz_irU[/video]
The Local 25 meeting was for Local 42 as well. Though we were kept totally in the dark about the secret negotiations even as we attended our Contract Proposal Meeting and filled out our National Contract Surveys to mail back.
$248 is added to your monthly "Normal Retirement Age" (age 64) pension check for each year you work and earn a full (12-month) Pension Credit. If you collect your benefit years earlier under the Early Retirement provision, your pension amount is reduced significantly. Also, you can't just multiply 248 by the number of years you worked to arrive at your Age 64 pension, because most of your early contribution years earned progressively less than the current $248 figure due to lower contribution rates back then. Use the pension fund website's Calculator to see your pension amount for today, and what it would be if you retired today, but waited until Age 64 to start collecting. Use the Estimator to see what your pension would be if you continued to work until age 60, 61, 62, etc.
www.nettipf.com
Almost all the meeting attendees enthusiastically intending in advance to give the Teamster officers and Plan Trustees a blank check to do whatever they want without providing any documents or details.
We did not receive Fund Rules & Regulations' Articles 15 and 16, and they are not available on the Fund website, as the version there is from 2002. Nor did we get a copy of the actual 25-plus page agreement between UPS and the Trustees. Nor the Withdrawal Liability calculation, exact amount, and payment schedule.
We are literally relying on a brief UPS press release!
All money from the Original Withdrawal Liability Pool and the New Withdrawal Liability Pool will be mingled and invested by the same old people (I believe). The destinction between the funds is a record-keeping and actuarial one, not physical. There will be no segregation of assets.
The UPS Trustee was not involved in all of this as that would potentially have been a conflict of interest with his duty as a Fund fiduciary of the Plan as a whole.
The additional "penalty" for withdrawing in the future was said to be $700 million.
UPS had already promissed, in a Contract Memorandum of Understanding, to stay in the Fund for ten years, so I don't see the big accomplishment in keeping them in the fund right now. Besides, don't they need our permission to leave? Just as they need our permission to Withdraw and Re-enter?
The "Maintanence of Benefits" feature required UPS to increase hourly contributions significantly every year just to maintain the same $248 benefit level. That feature is now gone. I wonder if benefits will be cut each year to keep the new pool in balance, since increasing contributions apparently isn't an option?
To begin to understand the new Withdrawal Liability Pool read this . . .
http://www.nettipf.com/pdf_files/wlnotice62010.pdf
To see why the Fund is less than 50% funded (only 23.85% funded by RPA '94 standards) you can download the Form-5500 Annual Reports from the Fund website. Or download the "uncensored" last two returns from the Department of Labor website here . . .
http://www.efast.dol.gov/portal/app/disseminate?execution=e1s1
Just enter 046372430 in the EIN field and click Search.
Then check the little box to the right of the Report you want, and click "Batch Full Filling" (or the other Batch button, it's finicky.) May take several attempts,
The current hourly contribution rate is $8.51 per hour for all paid hours for all workers doing Bargaining Unit Work up to a 40-hour per week maximum. For a Full-timer, that's $340.40 per week, $17,700.80 per year. Half those numbers for a part-timer at, say, 20 hours a week. Normally the hourly rate would increase 65-cents or so each year. The new pool contribution rate is only $6.20 per hour with no increases for ten years. That's an immediate reduction of $2.31 per hour, $92.40 per week, and $4,804.80 per year for a full-timer, (half that for a part-timer.)
AS OF THIS MOMENT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT UPS AND THE TEAMSTERS AND THE PENSION FUND TRUSTEES HAVE AGREED TO, BUT HERE IS THE NEW SCHEDULE OF BENEFITS FOR NEW EMPLOYERS IN THE NEW WITHDRAWAL LIABILITY POOL . . .
Summary: http://www.nettipf.com/pdf_files/AltPlanSummary.pdf
Actual document: http://www.nettipf.com/pdf_files/newplanspd.pdf
Notice how benefits are cut, and qualifications are more difficult to attain in the new plan.
Remember, this is the standard New Employer Plan. UPS may well have gotten a better deal as a negotiating old New Employer. I sure hope so.
What worries me is if half the money is missing, then, logically, won't half the benefits need to be cut to bring everything ultimately into balance? And if UPS owes $2.1 billion over 50 [!!!] years, will the maximum of 20 years of payments rule be invoked? Why is UPS taking a one-time charge of only $896 million?
$248 is added to your monthly "Normal Retirement Age" (age 64) pension check for each year you work and earn a full (12-month) Pension Credit. If you collect your benefit years earlier under the Early Retirement provision, your pension amount is reduced significantly. Also, you can't just multiply 248 by the number of years you worked to arrive at your Age 64 pension, because most of your early contribution years earned progressively less than the current $248 figure due to lower contribution rates back then. Use the pension fund website's Calculator to see your pension amount for today, and what it would be if you retired today, but waited until Age 64 to start collecting. Use the Estimator to see what your pension would be if you continued to work until age 60, 61, 62, etc.
www.nettipf.com
Almost all the meeting attendees enthusiastically intending in advance to give the Teamster officers and Plan Trustees a blank check to do whatever they want without providing any documents or details.
We did not receive Fund Rules & Regulations' Articles 15 and 16, and they are not available on the Fund website, as the version there is from 2002. Nor did we get a copy of the actual 25-plus page agreement between UPS and the Trustees. Nor the Withdrawal Liability calculation, exact amount, and payment schedule.
We are literally relying on a brief UPS press release!
All money from the Original Withdrawal Liability Pool and the New Withdrawal Liability Pool will be mingled and invested by the same old people (I believe). The destinction between the funds is a record-keeping and actuarial one, not physical. There will be no segregation of assets.
The UPS Trustee was not involved in all of this as that would potentially have been a conflict of interest with his duty as a Fund fiduciary of the Plan as a whole.
The additional "penalty" for withdrawing in the future was said to be $700 million.
UPS had already promissed, in a Contract Memorandum of Understanding, to stay in the Fund for ten years, so I don't see the big accomplishment in keeping them in the fund right now. Besides, don't they need our permission to leave? Just as they need our permission to Withdraw and Re-enter?
The "Maintanence of Benefits" feature required UPS to increase hourly contributions significantly every year just to maintain the same $248 benefit level. That feature is now gone. I wonder if benefits will be cut each year to keep the new pool in balance, since increasing contributions apparently isn't an option?
To begin to understand the new Withdrawal Liability Pool read this . . .
http://www.nettipf.com/pdf_files/wlnotice62010.pdf
To see why the Fund is less than 50% funded (only 23.85% funded by RPA '94 standards) you can download the Form-5500 Annual Reports from the Fund website. Or download the "uncensored" last two returns from the Department of Labor website here . . .
http://www.efast.dol.gov/portal/app/disseminate?execution=e1s1
Just enter 046372430 in the EIN field and click Search.
Then check the little box to the right of the Report you want, and click "Batch Full Filling" (or the other Batch button, it's finicky.) May take several attempts,
The current hourly contribution rate is $8.51 per hour for all paid hours for all workers doing Bargaining Unit Work up to a 40-hour per week maximum. For a Full-timer, that's $340.40 per week, $17,700.80 per year. Half those numbers for a part-timer at, say, 20 hours a week. Normally the hourly rate would increase 65-cents or so each year. The new pool contribution rate is only $6.20 per hour with no increases for ten years. That's an immediate reduction of $2.31 per hour, $92.40 per week, and $4,804.80 per year for a full-timer, (half that for a part-timer.)
AS OF THIS MOMENT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT UPS AND THE TEAMSTERS AND THE PENSION FUND TRUSTEES HAVE AGREED TO, BUT HERE IS THE NEW SCHEDULE OF BENEFITS FOR NEW EMPLOYERS IN THE NEW WITHDRAWAL LIABILITY POOL . . .
Summary: http://www.nettipf.com/pdf_files/AltPlanSummary.pdf
Actual document: http://www.nettipf.com/pdf_files/newplanspd.pdf
Notice how benefits are cut, and qualifications are more difficult to attain in the new plan.
Remember, this is the standard New Employer Plan. UPS may well have gotten a better deal as a negotiating old New Employer. I sure hope so.
What worries me is if half the money is missing, then, logically, won't half the benefits need to be cut to bring everything ultimately into balance? And if UPS owes $2.1 billion over 50 [!!!] years, will the maximum of 20 years of payments rule be invoked? Why is UPS taking a one-time charge of only $896 million?
http://www.pionline.com/article/20120903/PRINTSUB/309039997/a-new-pension-model
The new structure does nothing to restore the financial health of the existing New England Teamsters fund, and the departure of UPS could likely worsen its finances. UPS will pay its $1.2 billion in withdrawal liability in installments for 50 years.
The new structure does nothing to restore the financial health of the existing New England Teamsters fund, and the departure of UPS could likely worsen its finances. UPS will pay its $1.2 billion in withdrawal liability in installments for 50 years.
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