What I would like to see Election Day
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taken waaay out of context.I'd like to see more Politicians like this speak up to help their cause.
YouTube - Kerry Belittles U.S. Troops
wkmac
Well-Known Member
hoser,
I don't disagree but that is the nature of American politics in our day and age. Until the American voter shows another mindset outcome at the polls on election day it will continue. We had a race in my State for Statewide judge where one candidate accused the other of suing family members and it was painted to really look bad. The accused candidate then produced court documents showing his lawsuit had to do with maintaining life support for his mother as per her wishes.
Now you can debate the interpretation of people's wishes and desires and how family members act on that but I don't see this family issue as something of any concern in an election campaign. Now I have no plans to vote for either one of these folks so I have "no dog in that hunt" but this is just one of 1000's of examples we are bombarded with during any election cycle and we react at the polls that tells the political machine to keep doing the same. Until we stand up and throw them such a curveball that sets them back a 100 years we will see things only get worse.
I started watching this past Sunday night a series on ancient Rome at it's political leaders throughout it's life and so far they've gotten through Nero and will conclude this coming Sunday. It's truly alarming the paralells between ancient Rome and our American experience. I'm truly saddened that we've learned nothing from history and appear doomed to only repeat it over again. I dare say we aren't the intelligent and advanced civilization we think we are.
JMHO
In the last federal election up north, the Liberals ran a lot of negative and attack ads (a first in my generation). Some of them attacking the Conservative candidate's pro-military policy, saying he would put light infantry on the streets of Canadian cities. Thing is, the only time the War Measures Act (Marshall Law) was called, was about 30 years ago and under a Liberal Prime Minister.
Suprisingly, many people saw these ads as insulting to their intelligence and manifesting as the result of a complete lack of vision. Needless to say, the Libranos lost.
Well things are certainly looking better today than they did yesterday. Nowhere near perfect, mind you, as we are still stuck in this miserable two party system where the voters are all too often offered only the illusion of choice, but at least some balance has been restored and one party no longer has complete control of both the executive and legislative branches. This is much closer to what the founding father's intended and at the end of the day it's much better for the country.
Getting rid of Rumsfeld was a good move on Bush's part, and it was apparently something he was planning on doing regardless of how the midterms panned out. This would seem to demonstrate that he is not quite as clueless as some people think on just how badly things are going in Iraq. I was impressed with his choice of Bob Gates to replace Rumsfeld, the guy is not a partisan hack or an idealogue and appears to have the right skillset (CIA backround) to deal with the problems we are facing in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
In the short term at least, I am cautiously optimistic.
Getting rid of Rumsfeld was a good move on Bush's part, and it was apparently something he was planning on doing regardless of how the midterms panned out. This would seem to demonstrate that he is not quite as clueless as some people think on just how badly things are going in Iraq. I was impressed with his choice of Bob Gates to replace Rumsfeld, the guy is not a partisan hack or an idealogue and appears to have the right skillset (CIA backround) to deal with the problems we are facing in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
In the short term at least, I am cautiously optimistic.
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U
Unmentionable
Guest
Jones said:
Jones,
You know I respect your opinions, but really, Gates?
Iran-Contra ring a bell?
Photographic memory, yet can't remember under oath?
Poppy has thrown a rope, but I'm afraid it's just the same old same old.
At least Pelosi is third inline.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Good point Jones. Yesterday at lunch I got our local paper which had a huge section devoted only to the election and it's results and I did notice something which I think is healthy in a sense. As I read about some of the democrats who won in several House races I also noticed comments about their political beliefs. Now granted, its a newspaper, blah, blah, etc. and a handful of salt goes with what you read but I noticed many of the newly elected held many what are considered traditional conservative beliefs. Seems like all across the board, all were calling for fiscal responsibilty and I think that is a needed given that it's been odd over the last several years watching the democrats beat the republicans with the "bigspender" label bat and
to the democrats for doing so. Watching Kennedy extoll the need for spending controls gave me that odd out of phase sensation I use to get on some good LSD trips back in the early 70's. 
But at the same time I also saw these new democrats talking pro-gun positions which the American public has been sold the idea that it's only republicans who will protect the 2nd amendment so already we have democrats challenging this illusion. I also think Harold Ford Jr. the democrat who ran for Senate in Tenn. was endorsed by the NRA. I may have heard this wrong so if that be the case, sorry to all parties involved. Senator elect Tester of Montana I've heard is rather conservative and this stands to reason in a State that is traditionally Republican and what peeked my interest in him was to learn he was an organic farmer. Pretty cool!
I really think not only do we need divided gov't but also divided parties. Both parties within their ranks use to have staunch conservatives and staunch liberals and I think that was healthy for the Nation itself. In the 1970's, you might have a McGovern or Kennedy in charge of some committtee function in the Senate but then in the House you had a democrat like the late Larry McDonald, a hardcore conservative, also powerful in some committee functions. So within the party itself there was a checks and balance. I hope we see a return to this more and more and love him or hate him, that was one thing that Zell Miller of Georgia was yelling about.
Now I'm not a big gov't kinda guy at all but looking back to 1994', things weren't to bad from 94' to about 97' when gov't was divided and Clinton and the republican Congress seemed to get some things done and those years weren't to bad for the country. They weren't perfect but life never is so there you go! It wasn't until the 2000' election cycle began to approach that the corruptive nature of power began to rear it's ugly head and instead of the republicans having the upperhand with Clinton over some of the scandals and using that to push Clinton to get even more done, (Clinton and Gore both had already admitted some measure of Social Security privatization was needed, missed your boat boys because you wanted all the glory to yourselves) they got stupid and went for broke on an impeachment process that they admitted after the fact didn't have a chance but wanted to taint the other party with all they could prior to the 2000' elections. It's like running Bob Dole in 96' who they knew had no chance but he was leaving Washington anyway and they had to throw someone out there to oppose Clinton. Dole was the party's lamb to the slaughter just as Mondale was for the democrats in the 84' election against Reagan. Democrats tried their hand in 87' with Iran/Contra to setup 88' but failed to capture the White House as no real backlash happened. 1991' and 1992' proved good timing as the economy turned sour during the election cycle and proves perfect again and started to move upwards just before the election but not in a way that Bush 1 could capitialize with the voters and the democrats had all the marbles again. Then 2 years later, their own devices took the better of them and the rest as they say is history.
From what I hear the democrats are saying they will focus on solving problems and working with to move forward instead of moving on some isolated cries from the extremes to impeach Bush over Iraq. Very smart! I hope they prove at the end of the day to be smarter than their counterparts were coming up on 10 years ago.
Like you I'm cautiously optimistic but my gut tells me "stupid is as stupid does!" After voting and watching politics for over 30 years I've just come to learn these guys are not the sharpest knives in the drawer at the end of the day.
The perfect day would have been for every incumbent in the house to get voted out (democrats would still have control and I think in the Senate too but not sure completely on their numbers) and we'd all have seen completely fresh faces in Washington. K Street would have been in turmoil as they count on us to send the majority of incumbents back and they bet their money and relationships on that. Could you imagine the fear running through the corridors of power had we been smart enough to do that? You want to grab their attention and get something done well consider trying that on for size in the next election cycle!
BTW: Love or hate Lieberman, his election was a plus because he ran as an independent. That was in itself a real plus IMO.
c ya!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Hey, I never said things were perfect, would you have prefered another neo-con? Wolfowitz perhaps
? My sense of it is that he's a pragmatist who will try and find the quickest solution to getting us out of Iraq, which I suspect is exactly why Bush tapped him.And yes, I am aware that he brings some baggage, but we'll just have to trust in our newly legitimate congressional oversight to keep him in line (only slightly tongue in cheek there).
I could be wrong about all of this, of course. Maybe Bush really brought in Gates to help finalize the plans to invade Venezuela. Maybe all the newly elected democrats are really pod people who will rip off their masks and seize control on some pre-arranged signal. Maybe we're all just screwed no matter what happens
.I've always been a "glass half full" kind of guy though
.Time will tell.....
Mixed signal for us in Canada, although it would definitively mean no DHS guard towers 100 feet from our border, we don't know how this will affect trade (namely the mad-cow embargo crap perpetuated by the
s at RCALF)
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Concerning Iraq, I'm not sure all that much will change.
BostonHerald.com - International: Iraqi president says Democrats told him they will not pull out quickly
If true then I suspect, as I have all along, that the democrat party leadership is not so much against empirical adventures but were upset that they weren't the one's calling the shots running the empire. What may prove interesting is that many newly elects ran on an anti-war type platform and the American people are expecting to some change for the better. If the status quo is maintained (and I hope and pray it is) this could erode American confidence in the 2 party system and set the stage for a number of independent candidates to move out into the light of day as soon maybe as 2008'. If I were Pelosi and Reid I won't kick back just yet with cigars and Scotch as the pot is already beginning to boil within their own ranks. BREITBART.COM - McGovern to Meet With Congress on War
BTW: I do think McGovern has is right about the American voter and what they are expecting.
The traditional Christian Conservative base that has dominated the RNC for 20 plus years is fast eroding and from this are musings of 3rd or independent parties and candidates coming out from these ranks to challenge for power on a very overt religious platform. In some cases, IMO, Christian fascism. Now seeing their old party secretly condone a homosexual child molester was a slap in the face to go on top of a lobbyist in league with one of their own so-called Christian leaders (Abramhoff/Ralph Reed alliance) to rally the christian shock troops to oppose certain gambling legislation that in effect prohibited certain efforts of others to enter the gaming business while atthe same time protecting the business tuff of some already in it. The moral hypocrisy peeked with the republican shook troops staying home and the rest as they say is history.
On the otherside of the political spectrum, some of the extremes of the democratic party are getting restless of the democrats saying one thing and then governing from the other. Many have cried for an end to the DLC control of the party and Dean was seen as someone who could play the middle where it really counted but say the things needed said to keep the shock troops on the fringes in line so they were there come election day. This may change now as middle America has given the democrat party another chance as they are looking for centrist solutions not extreme rancor as both parties have had their fair share in the past. Even Dean told Jon Stewart that Impeachment of Bush is out Howard Dean to Jon Stewart: We Won't Impeach Bush and this will not set well with the many on the very farside of that isle.
But there is good news. All this playing nice and talking the talk will soon end. Somebody will say or do something and it'll be right back to the same ole' same ole'. I thought it interesting that a few days ago Hamas announced open war against America and then when the election results came out they backtracked that statement real quick. Will be interesting to watch this aspect of the big foreign political picture.
Ground_Hub_Angel
~*PAS Preload*~
2. Balanced Federal Budget. Politicians shouldn't spend more than we have, except in a National Emergency such as war. This will cut out a lot of waste. Politicians should be paid only if they can do this.
If this is the case and we get someone in office like the person that is in there now. We will never have any money because this war is 2-3 years over being unnecessary. We should have been out of this war a long ass time ago. Its just stupidity now, and its wasting money and lives that are worth alot more then the time or effort even tho they are putting a assload of it in this war.
If this is the case and we get someone in office like the person that is in there now. We will never have any money because this war is 2-3 years over being unnecessary. We should have been out of this war a long ass time ago. Its just stupidity now, and its wasting money and lives that are worth alot more then the time or effort even tho they are putting a assload of it in this war.
Speaking of balancing the budget, and cutting waste. here in Ohio they advertise for people to apply for food stamps. Its called the OHIO direction card. The apps come from TX Next day AIR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The real disheartening thing is when you deliver a complete BOSE system one day, and food stamps the next. Now I know there are people who need them , but those people arent buying Bose. Well wait, yes they are.....
These are the cuts I would like to see. I have no problem helping someone down and out, but then you have to wake them up to sign. .......... I think they should be out looking for work by 1030am.
I think there is a way to stem this abuse. But we are not doing it, I for one would like to work on that team.
The real disheartening thing is when you deliver a complete BOSE system one day, and food stamps the next. Now I know there are people who need them , but those people arent buying Bose. Well wait, yes they are.....
These are the cuts I would like to see. I have no problem helping someone down and out, but then you have to wake them up to sign. .......... I think they should be out looking for work by 1030am.
I think there is a way to stem this abuse. But we are not doing it, I for one would like to work on that team.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
"Anyone but Bush" ring a bell?
And that got us where?
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
And yet we're most likely going to see a repeat of that mentality when the Republicans sweep this election.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
In the midst of one of the strongest economic recoveries since the Depression.
realbrown1
Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Strongest economic recovery for minimum wage jobs maybe.
moreluck
golden ticket member
With the REAL unemployment rate being somewhere around 12%....more like 17% for blacks and the participation rate being the lowest since 1978.....full time jobs changed to part time jobs.....there might be a recovery in the stock market, but the everyday 'joes' are screwed. Wake up Herbert!
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