when is enough going to be enough?

[Catatonic]

Well along came telematics and it made it safer and cut alot of management and we all lived happily ever after.

Nice theory ...

 

[whydoestheunionhavenoball]

Thanks.

 

[Re-Raise]

You say 2 that actually held up at panel. I am ok with, that our cases were probably weak to begin with.

Have you taken a moment to think about how much the employee really lost in each case that didn't go to panel and took the suspension or they got their job back at the panel.

• having to tell your family/friends you lost your job or were suspended.
• stress
• anger
• denial
• depression
• loss of social status
• no benefits
• financial insecurity
• co-workers shunning you
• how are you going to support yourself or family during this time

with all that said, who truly loses in this situation when you get your job back? Answer: the employee

You may have heard this before but I think its a valid statement:

We (company) win either way. They either do what we ask them to or they are asked to leave the company.

Follow the methods, make it part of your daily routine you will not regret it.

Dragon

Wow you really think you can scare the crap out of people by threatening to fire them for bullsh#t reasons. I am who I am with or without this job big man.

I take responsibility for my actions and pride in my work whether it be for this company or somewhere else.

UPS suspended a driver at my center for 2 days who couldn't swerve fast enough to avoid a drunk driver who turned in front of him. The other driver was arrested on the spot and our driver was charged with an avoidable tier three accident for not expecting the unexpected.

His "loss of social status" had to be very tough on him.

All this does is make UPS and UPS management look like complete idiots to the public.

I was looking for a job when I found this one , don't think you can scare everyone.

 

[grgrcr88]

I agree, the stupid reasons the company comes up with to suspend anf fire employees only makes them look bad, not only to the general public but to the employees themselves. I have never understood why the company thinks that a pissed off driver is more efficient. I will tell you for sure, when you harass and try to intimidate people that spend their entire day interacting with your customers you get alot of negative publicity, and negative attitude from the employee. Negative attitude does nothing but make someone try their hardest to screw the company back!

How is that a win, win for the company?

 

[stevetheupsguy]

What you guys are failing to understand is, its not that your Union is weak. Its that our cases against the employee are getting stronger and stronger. Proper documentation, follow - up, retraining, observations.

Go out there and do your job as though a supervisor is riding with you everyday. If you have a question about something, by all means call your center team and ask.

Just my 2 cents.

I was going to say, "Well Said", until I read the next post.

If I hear this ruthless,fear-based line toed again ...honestly, do you actually use your brain when you say this crap....do you use this line everyday to all of your drivers, too? Idiotic rhetoric at it's finest.
"WORK LIKE YOURE BEING FOLLOWED" Yes, brilliiant...BUT why can't people just do their jobs like THEY DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING HARRASSED, FOLLOWED, INTIMIDATED....
Oh that's right, at UPS we instill FEAR....It's all about the fear factor....keep them scared, starving, aching, overloaded, overcrowed, and of course overworried...they'll perform at their best...
Brilliant.

These 2 posts have equally great value and signifigance, even though they are from opposing sides.

I turned in 3 this week.
I would appreciate any you would send my way.
Remember:
Company name
Contact name
Full Company address
Phone number
And permission to call.

Thanks in advance

Medline USA, sorry, don't have a contact name or number for you, but I'm sure you can look up the number to their corporate office and find someone in charge. They ship medical products with FedEx and I'm sure they would be willing to listen to someone that could quite possibly save them money. I've already tried our salespeople, but it seems that if you don't do just about all of the work for them, they don't try to sell the lead. To me, it's not all about putting in a lead to make some side cash. It's really all about growing the company.

what amazes me about the brown cafe i can seek out the workers from the kiss asses is there any place we can signify if your union ,management,or closet union aka act union tough around the brothers but cut deals to brown that nose up some ...........

I thought the Union was there TO cut deals.

Could you post that in English?

yes ur a kiss ass

Wrong, he's MGMT.

If UPS didn't pay its drivers like professionals with master's degrees, they could afford to run a safer operation

That's a weird statement. Are you saying that UPS paying their driver's, say, 1/2 what they make now, would make the company safer? How do you come to this conclusion?

 

[timebonustodd]

good 1 ...i sniff manager or letter of intent with u there tiger!!!!! i must be careful im on a cafe a warning............. as for contract i know my contract why hide i know my supplement rather well thanks for the concern though fraternally yours TBT (thats timeboustodd)

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

good 1 ...i sniff manager or letter of intent with u there tiger!!!!! i must be careful im on a cafe a warning............. as for contract i know my contract why hide i know my supplement rather well thanks for the concern though fraternally yours TBT (thats timeboustodd)

"Acceptable".

 

[brownone]

I agree, the stupid reasons the company comes up with to suspend anf fire employees only makes them look bad, not only to the general public but to the employees themselves. I have never understood why the company thinks that a pissed off driver is more efficient. I will tell you for sure, when you harass and try to intimidate people that spend their entire day interacting with your customers you get alot of negative publicity, and negative attitude from the employee. Negative attitude does nothing but make someone try their hardest to screw the company back!

How is that a win, win for the company?

I find humor in that it is okay for you to file a grievance on UPS Management when there is violation of the contract, but it is not okay for Management to fire a person for violating the contract. If you are going to stomp and shout about Management violations of the contract, than realize that are violations made by the employee's as well. Contract is a two way street and not just a tool for the Union.

 

[JonFrum]

I find humor in that it is okay for you to file a grievance on UPS Management when there is violation of the contract, but it is not okay for Management to fire a person for violating the contract. If you are going to stomp and shout about Management violations of the contract, than realize that are violations made by the employee's as well. Contract is a two way street and not just a tool for the Union.

The Contract is binding on both Management and Labor, but by the very nature of a Collective Bargaining Agreement, almost all clauses deal with what Management is obligated to do. Therefore almost all charges are of the Union grieving Management violations, and not the other way around.

Why are you equating a Union filing a grievance against UPS, with UPS fireing a Union employee? Fireing is many times more severe. Besides, most grievances against Management, if anything, enhance the Manager's "street cred" in the eyes of the higher-ups.

 

[Re-Raise]

I find humor in that it is okay for you to file a grievance on UPS Management when there is violation of the contract, but it is not okay for Management to fire a person for violating the contract. If you are going to stomp and shout about Management violations of the contract, than realize that are violations made by the employee's as well. Contract is a two way street and not just a tool for the Union.

So any management employee who violates the wording of the contract should lose their job at UPS?

I "find humor" in that you think filing a grievance to protect your rights as a union employee compares somehow to threatening someone's job.

Sometimes an employee deserves to lose his or her job, it is the bullsh#t reasons that annoy me.

They don't stick but the attitude of Dragon and others that it is a win for the company to treat their employees this way is insane.

 

[brownone]

So any management employee who violates the wording of the contract should lose their job at UPS?

I "find humor" in that you think filing a grievance to protect your rights as a union employee compares somehow to threatening someone's job.

Sometimes an employee deserves to lose his or her job, it is the bullsh#t reasons that annoy me.


They don't stick but the attitude of Dragon and others that it is a win for the company to treat their employees this way is insane.

Not all sections of the contract involve termination, but the company has the right to enforce the ones that do. I would also say that on the majority of the terminations the other members only get the side of the story that favors the person being terminated. The purpose of discipline is to change a persons behavior.

 

[Re-Raise]

Not all sections of the contract involve termination, but the company has the right to enforce the ones that do. I would also say that on the majority of the terminations the other members only get the side of the story that favors the person being terminated. The purpose of discipline is to change a persons behavior.

Do you believe the company should threaten to fire someone for the following reasons?

1 An avoidable accident.. one that is not the driver's fault but 20/20 hindsight says that he could have avoided with superhuman abilities.

2 Scanning a known closed air package away from the location.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Not all sections of the contract involve termination, but the company has the right to enforce the ones that do. I would also say that on the majority of the terminations the other members only get the side of the story that favors the person being terminated. The purpose of discipline is to change a persons behavior.

That's funny, the way I hear it is that it's to change their employ.

Do you believe the company should threaten to fire someone for the following reasons?

1 An avoidable accident.. one that is not the driver's fault but 20/20 hindsight says that he could have avoided with superhuman abilities.

2 Scanning a known closed air package away from the location.

I don't think anyone should be "threatened" to be fired. If you're gonna fire me, just do it already. If you're mad at what I did, state that fact. I'd prefer to be treated like an adult, than trying to manipulate me based on fear of termination, just sayin...

 

[pretzel_man]

That's funny, the way I hear it is that it's to change their employ.

I don't think anyone should be "threatened" to be fired. If you're gonna fire me, just do it already. If you're mad at what I did, state that fact. I'd prefer to be treated like an adult, than trying to manipulate me based on fear of termination, just sayin...

Steve,

Unfortunately, we are both part of the process we created.

If I had my own company and a person made a mistake, I might just talk to the person. Another person with a similar mistake, I may fire. It would depend on the person, situation, and other factors.

If I just spoke with the person, and he/she did it again, I could fire him/her for the second offense. I guess I could give a more stern warning if I wanted....

We don't have this situation at UPS and both UPS and the Union created the process.

If UPS needs to terminate a person for a second or third offense, each offense must be documented, right? And, it has to be documented the same for everyone, right? I view warning letters as just what they say... A warning of a situation and just part of a process.

I do agree that some managers inappropriately give out warning letters..... To me, that just becomes a waste of time and paper.

So, yes the process is both a way to change behavior and to change employ if needed.
P-Man

 

[CRASH501]

A person who is in management is not the company.
Your safety may very well be the most important thing in that management person's eyes because he/she is a person just like you.
The company is a collection of shareholders that elect a Board of Directors that selects Upper Level Management who is responsible for running the company to optimize profits.
If unsafe conditions jeopardizes the maximization of ROI then the company cares.
The 'company' cares about safety when it jeopardizes its profits.
That's just the nature of "companies" but not the nature of fellow humans ... well most anyway.

.
NO A DIRECT QUOTE BY MY FORMER CENTER MANAGER !
.
" EVERY INJURY COST UPS ROUGHLY $25,000 YOU GUYS NEED TO STOP GETTING HURT "
our safety meens crap to you guys , so many injuries are hidden with light loads and helper loads just to not have them reported !

 

[CRASH501]

Its only important because it makes you feel better to say it. When drivers are out til 9 pm or later, safety is not the most important thing

.
these excessively dispatched loades seriously contribute to driver fatigue and innjuries , but UPS corporate refuses to hire , pay benefits ect..... its just more cost effective to over dispatch and pay the overtime!
'.
after all we are only numbers to these animals

 

[CRASH501]

I have been out way past 9PM on thousands of occasions in my lifetime, and done so perfectly safely. It is what you are doing not the time of day that determines safety.

.
.
yeah sure okay........;
.
DRIVER FATIGUE......
.COLDER TEMPERATURES ( SEASONAL )
..THE URBAN ANIMALS IF YOU WORK IN SUCH A NEIGHBORHOOD , I DO NOT WANT TO BE DOING MY SPLIT IN THE HOUSING PROJECTS AT 9PM BECAUSE THE LOADER JUST THREW THEM INTO THE LOAD AFTER THE SPLIT WAS CUT !

 

[CRASH501]

If UPS didn't pay its drivers like professionals with master's degrees, they could afford to run a safer operation

the bottom line is we are laborers , that professional driver tag is just bull.......
.
we hump 200 plus pkgs daily and maintain our numbers to the best of our ability
......WE ARE PAID WELL YES, BUT YET WE ARE UNDERPAID !

 

[CRASH501]

you say 2 that actually held up at panel. I am ok with, that our cases were probably weak to begin with.

Have you taken a moment to think about how much the employee really lost in each case that didn't go to panel and took the suspension or they got their job back at the panel.

• having to tell your family/friends you lost your job or were suspended.
• stress
• anger
• denial
• depression
• loss of social status
• no benefits
• financial insecurity
• co-workers shunning you
• how are you going to support yourself or family during this time

with all that said, who truly loses in this situation when you get your job back? Answer: The employee

you may have heard this before but i think its a valid statement:

We (company) win either way. They either do what we ask them to or they are asked to leave the company.

Follow the methods, make it part of your daily routine you will not regret it.

Dragon

.
.
Great breakdown ! Hence .....my upcoming wrongfull termination suit

 

[fxdwg]

Get happy