Who would like to join the Conservative Teamster Caucus?

[boxdust]

There's a difference between citizens exercising their right of free association to band together to increase their leverage to negotiate better wages and working conditions (i.e. unions), and socialist governance.

You can think there is a difference all you want that's fine. Unions are socialism!!! That's why in the 1920 they were pushed by the socialists parties in several countries including the UK, USA, and the Netherlands to name a few. I'm not saying it is the best solution to a true governing body, our joke of an election this year proved that. But the entire concept of unions is socialism. Just look at our health care and pension plans perfect examples of redistribution of wealth, or socialism. Again I'm not saying it's an amazing all perfect system. What I am saying is that if you are a believer in the benefits of the union you probably shouldn't vote conservative very often, since most conservatives think socialist ideals are a form of vulgarity.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

You can think there is a difference all you want that's fine. Unions are socialism!!! That's why in the 1920 they were pushed by the socialists parties in several countries including the UK, USA, and the Netherlands to name a few. I'm not saying it is the best solution to a true governing body, our joke of an election this year proved that. But the entire concept of unions is socialism. Just look at our health care and pension plans perfect examples of redistribution of wealth, or socialism. Again I'm not saying it's an amazing all perfect system. What I am saying is that if you are a believer in the benefits of the union you probably shouldn't vote conservative very often, since most conservatives think socialist ideals are a form of vulgarity.

Let me ask you, do you appreciate unionism? I am a conservative who sees the value in unions, if for no other reason than the fact that corporations have too much influence over politicians. I have been able to reconcile my conservative views with unionism. It would be better to try and be inclusive of conservatives rather than continue to exclude them. It will help send a message to politicians that their constituents value unions, and help keep unions strong.

If unions were truly socialist, their aim should be to wrest control of companies away from management and make their operations subject to democratic proccesses as voted on by the workers.

 

[Jones]

Let me ask you, do you appreciate unionism? I am a conservative who sees the value in unions, if for no other reason than the fact that corporations have too much influence over politicians. I have been able to reconcile my conservative views with unionism. It would be better to try and be inclusive of conservatives rather than continue to exclude them. It will help send a message to politicians that their constituents value unions, and help keep unions strong.

If unions were truly socialist, their aim should be to wrest control of companies away from management and make their operations subject to democratic proccesses as voted on by the workers.

Your argument is a little bit of a straw man as even in socialist countries (more socialist than the US anyway) workers don't seize control of companies in the way that you describe. They do however force the companies to negotiate wages and working conditions under the implied threat they will shut the company down (strike) if their demands are not met.
Conservatives tend to be against unions on principle, and it's interesting that literally the only self described conservatives who are pro union just happen to be union workers, ie, they benefit personally from having a union. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it though...

 

[Trailer monkey]

Let me ask you, do you appreciate unionism? I am a conservative who sees the value in unions, if for no other reason than the fact that corporations have too much influence over politicians. I have been able to reconcile my conservative views with unionism. It would be better to try and be inclusive of conservatives rather than continue to exclude them. It will help send a message to politicians that their constituents value unions, and help keep unions strong.

If unions were truly socialist, their aim should be to wrest control of companies away from management and make their operations subject to democratic proccesses as voted on by the workers.

Unions are perfectly consistent with conservative values, unfortunately not with conservative politics. Unions operate within the free market and negotiate with employers within the free market. Laws like "right to work" that drop the heavy hand of govt regulation into the process of free contract between employers and workers and contrary to conservative values

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Your argument is a little bit of a straw man as even in socialist countries (more socialist than the US anyway) workers don't seize control of companies in the way that you describe. They do however force the companies to negotiate wages and working conditions under the implied threat they will shut the company down (strike) if their demands are not met.
Conservatives tend to be against unions on principle, and it's interesting that literally the only self described conservatives who are pro union just happen to be union workers, ie, they benefit personally from having a union. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it though...

@boxdust said unions are "socialism in action", and that conservatives don't believe in socialism. I am not misrepresenting his assertion, so no strawman. I am refuting his assertion. Just look up the definition of socialism. That's why I say unions are not socialist. Why wouldn't union workers be pro-union? Conservative or not. I've worked in both environments and I see the value in unions, I would be a hypocrite if I didn't. Nothing underhanded or diabolical about it.

 

[Redtag]

@boxdust said unions are "socialism in action", and that conservatives don't believe in socialism. I am not misrepresenting his assertion, so no strawman. I am refuting his assertion. Just look up the definition of socialism. That's why I say unions are not socialist. Why wouldn't union workers be pro-union? Conservative or not. I've worked in both environments and I see the value in unions, I would be a hypocrite if I didn't. Nothing underhanded or diabolical about it.

By voting republican you are voting for people that are pushing RTW and other methods of destroying the organized labor you personally benefit from.

 

[boxdust]

@boxdust said unions are "socialism in action", and that conservatives don't believe in socialism. I am not misrepresenting his assertion, so no strawman. I am refuting his assertion. Just look up the definition of socialism. That's why I say unions are not socialist. Why wouldn't union workers be pro-union? Conservative or not. I've worked in both environments and I see the value in unions, I would be a hypocrite if I didn't. Nothing underhanded or diabolical about it.

I do truly see the advantages to the union,I live in a RTw state and I still pay my dues. I took a large initial pay cut to take this job to give me union protection from the large corps. You speak of. My political preferences are moderate slightly leaning left, but I vote for the best person running not party. When I say that unions are " socialism in action" it is because that is the concept. It's just being implemented on a smaller scale with less impact. I give you my history to to hopefully show my indifference to the politics. I do however completely agree with you that corps have to much influence over politicians. I however believe that the unions also have a good bit of political power Which as you said if they were socialist the would try to subject the Corp to the will of the people. Is that not why we pay dues, so the union will keep the comp honest"ish", so there is someone in government lobbying for us. Sound like socialist ideals even if it isn't true socialism.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

By voting republican you are voting for people that are pushing RTW and other methods of destroying the organized labor you personally benefit from.

Was that directed at me? I don't vote republican.

 

[futile process]

If you are a conservative and a union member, than it's time to reevaluate your employment and or membership. Conservatives goal is too abolish unions.