Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[GuyinBrown]

Because using extra large font to make your point is clearly more persuasive than any other argument you could make.....

 

[browned out]

Did UPS's rich grandma just die? They are going to pay billions to get out of central states but somehow still have the money to authorize $2 billion buy back of ups stock.

Could this $ have come from the numerous concessions? Na say it ain't so

 

[GuyinBrown]

UPS is up to something and dont trust them. Since when did they care if we vote. Every PCM they say make sure to get your ballot in right away. This is the first time I ever have seen them care about us voting at all. Great post Captain I agree

I'll have to assume this is either your first contract or you haven't been paying attention to any of the previous ones. Every time they negotiate a contract and put forth an offer for us to vote on, they encourage us to vote and vote yes. This is nothing new, it happens every contract.

 

[GuyinBrown]

I read this today, and thought I'd throw it out here on the forum.

It appears the government can pay a better pension than UPS or Central States...

PBGC sets pension benefit limit for 2008

Interesting, but the article was relatively uninformative. I'd like to see what the benefit calculations are and I'd also be interested to know why the Steelworkers aren't getting pensions anywhere near those numbers.

 

[sawdusttv]

Red, Come on. Laziness/smoking. HA. Please read the NATIONAL MASTER UNITED PARCEL/TEAMSTER AGREEMENT. Read ALL OF ARTICLE 34. The CS buy and the NEW fund to be set up by IBT/CS is in there. BTW, the info is out there(INTERNET). Did you get your ballot mailing, Red? It also has a copy of the Nat. tent. agreement in there,too. Plus your area's supplement. Did you think UPS would be so stupid not to put it in the NAT. Master Agreement. UPSers, 8 billion is alot of money. Remember, be careful what you wish for. It could come back and bite you in the Face. Health and Welfare were the top 2 items in the survey. Its(Buy out/New fund) part of the 5 year contract. UPS makes 4 billion a year in profit. Thats already 2 years of profit. Again, its GIVE and TAKE. I am with Hoffa and hall on this one. This is the richest Contract in history. Vote YES.

In closing, Red, you and the rest of the No voters are in fact screwing over the 44,000 UPSer's that are still now in the CS fund. NO ifs, buts, whats,whens about it. Your screwing them by voting NO. Who ever is making up these LIES about it not being in the Nat. Master Agreement, should Stop Now. Red , I also noticed a degree of guilt in your posts about sticking it to your 44,000 teamsters brothers and sisters at Central States. Incredible. EVERYONE, go read ALL of Article 34. A copy of that art. is in with your ballot mailing.

Hold on Area,
While I appreciate your concern, there are many in the CS plan, including myself that feel that this buy-out offer is sub-par at best and should be reworked. If you had really studied the new proposals you would see that this new buy-out helps only the company and the teamsters, not the rank and file, and it should be turned down. So, you see, Red is looking at the over all picture and it is my opinion as well as many others in the CS plan that it should get a big fat "NO" vote, and yes I am aware that you are in the CS plan also.

 

[kait90]

vote no has anyone noticed they changed the hours per year you need to work for pension credit went from 1600 to 1801 oh but they are giving us a holiday day1

 

[tieguy]

Right On.

They have the Central States Pension. That was their main goal. Even if we vote this down; that will not change.

how do you figure?

 

[browned out]

how do you figure?

They will concede on any other issue besides the pension and progression. Language, part time benefits,part timers delivering single day vacations, starting wage, pension amounts can all be renegotiated but those two will not come off the table.

The only two concessions that UPS will stick to it's guns are getting the CS pension and the 3 year progression.

I voted no but would not be suprized if it passes. I do believe the current offer will pay for itself very quickly. UPS has already authorized a $2 Billion stock buy back.

 

[browned out]

Red,
skimming through some of the language I see:

1) Business agents now allowed to attend new hire orientations in right to work states. Win for you.

2) Language that strengthens the unions position when supervisors work during Acts of god.

3) You folks increased the penalty for sups working to double the hourly rate.

4) Language strengthening the unions ability to collect information for grievance hearings.

5) The GPS language which has some in an uproar appears to only be valid for acts of dishonesty. It appears the overall integrity of the language in that article stayed intact with the exception of the one GPS blurb.

6) language that seems to streamline the grievance process which should be a plus for your side.

7)Language that will provide the driver more protection against being charged for a bad dR. Definite win for your side.

8)Language that forces the center to provide the driver specific information about time card edits. win for your side.

9)Language the limits a centers ability to radically change a persons start time when they work taw. definite win for your side.

10) New language on grievance settlement payments and penalities and new language protecting the individual from liability on overpayments. definite win for your side.

11) New language allowing the union to access company vehicles and facilities for the purpose of investigating health and safety concerns. definite win for your side.

12)New language protecting a drivers right to work inside if their DOT is temporarily suspended and they have a reasonable expectation of having it restored.Your side wins again

13)New progression of part time wages bumping part time employees up to 10.50 an hour 90 days after they start. win for your side. It basically equates to raising the starting wage by 2 bucks an hour.
win for you again.

14) The subcontracting language some have tried to make a point of looks like its pretty much a non issue. language about moving work onto trains. Thats not happening because trains move too slow and fdx is pushing us to move more loads from the trains onto the ground.

language about moving loads from the train to the ground and the union wanting to be involved in how and where the jobs would be created thats a win for your side.

Language that allows some sub contracting if we move loads from the train to the ground and don't have enough ups drivers to cover the moves. It appears the language gives us the option to use sub contractors for thirty days maximum while we get people trained up.

Language that will allow the union more oversight into these moves when they occur.

Overall looks like we pick up some temporary flexibility while your side gets its hands into the planning process and has more invovlement from your side in the decisions being made. Win / win at best for both sides to me this language seems more lopsided in your favor.

15) lot of language that appears to significantly increase contributions to various pension funds. Looks like a clear win for your side.

16)Language the increase the pension contribution for part timers. win for you again.

17) New language strengthening the overall process for applying for a no overtime day and spelling out financial penalties when the company screws up. win for you.

18) New process allowing those who want the overtime the option to opt out of the 9.5 requests. Good for those who want the overtime. win for you.

19)Big increases in the sleeper team mileage rates. Some of those guys will be making more then their managers by the end of the contract.

Again this is just a quick skim of the contract offer posted on your favorite TDU site.

Overall it looks like you guys cleaned up when you objectively go through all the language that changed section by section. Most of the changes are yours and wins for your side any way you shake it.

UPS has proven that their language is vague and highly flexible and hard to enforce. For example, They have changed the 9.5 rule to Triple time. They could change it two a Hundred time and this would not make the language any stronger. Drivers have filed about 100 of these griveances in our center and no one received the penalty double time pay.

How about the 3 year progression and 60 day probationary period for new drivers? Is that good language? This 60 day period will result in more injuries and accidents from drivers trying to make numbers and taking short cuts on safety, just like the over 70's have increased injurys.

I asked my sup and district manager on the over 70's increased injury issue and they know nothing about it. Funny how a company that has a report on everything from pre trip time to SPORH to pu compliance to loop trace% etc does't have these numbers???

Maybe you have access to these reports; if so please post.
And if this contract passes; post the company wide reports on 60 day probationary drivers accidents and injuries.


Thanks

 

[browned out]

(no reply) Come on Tie Your not wearing a part time tie are you? Throw up some figures. You are well spoken and we are all basically anyonomous here. I'm sure your privy to some of these numbers.

Throw us a freakin' bone here.

 

[tieguy]

UPS is up to something and dont trust them. Since when did they care if we vote. Every PCM they say make sure to get your ballot in right away. This is the first time I ever have seen them care about us voting at all. Great post Captain I agree

This is one of the problems with the contract offer. You folks don't trust ups and you don't trust the union either from the looks of your posts. So at this point I'm not sure how you get a good contract because you're not going to trust either side to negotiate one for you.

You read all the misinformation on the tdu web site and believe it all as gospel. UPS could offer everyone a new cadillac and new house as part of the contract and the TDU site would scream that we were trying some kind of new trickery.

Meanwhile when this contract offer runs out full timers would be making 32 bucks an hour and 48 an hour for every hour of overtime. I wish all employers would abuse their people this way.

 

[TheVoice]

It dosnt seem to be the wages that full-timers are complaining about…at least in my hub. Most of these guys are voting no for specific language that they have problems with, not so much economics. And the rest of the full-timers that are voting no, are doing so to show support for the part-timers. I think that if this contract does get sent down, or even if it passes & you see a lot of no votes, the majority of the issues are coming from part-timers.

 

[sawdusttv]

This is one of the problems with the contract offer. You folks don't trust ups and you don't trust the union either from the looks of your posts. So at this point I'm not sure how you get a good contract because you're not going to trust either side to negotiate one for you.

You read all the misinformation on the tdu web site and believe it all as gospel. UPS could offer everyone a new cadillac and new house as part of the contract and the TDU site would scream that we were trying some kind of new trickery.

Meanwhile when this contract offer runs out full timers would be making 32 bucks an hour and 48 an hour for every hour of overtime. I wish all employers would abuse their people this way.

Tie,
You always try to use logic in your post, although your logic leans strongly towards the companies point of view.
Now, thinking logically, if this was a good and fair offer, would it be logical for many thousands of employees to be so displeased with the offer that they are ready to turn it down? NO, I think not! If it were as good as you would like people to think, you might have a handful against it, but the majority would jump on it and it would be over with, no question.

 

[Brown Dog]

It ain't the money! It's working conditions for workers that are consistently working 10-12 hour days. It's getting in and out of your truck 150 times 5days a week and handling 300-600 packages in every kind of weather. And do you think UPS cares if your 50 years old? or 55? The contract says it's suppose to be taken into consideration. NEVER in over 25 years with UPS have I ever seen it taken into consideration! NEVER! Not once. Do you think your as healthy or as strong as you were when you were 25 years old? Your'e not! 8 hour request, over 9.5, following the letter of the contract, these are things that need to be addressed now. Why doesn't UPS want their employees to have 2 days a month when they don't have to work till7 pm. Aren't our families as importent as yours. Aren't we entitled twice a month to see one of our kids soccer, baseball or dance recitals? We are there every day and we get the job done. We are honest, hard-working, and dependable. How about a little respect instead of busting our chops every day because you want to make more than 4 BILLION in profit a year.

 

[browned out]

It ain't the money! It's working conditions for workers that are consistently working 10-12 hour days. It's getting in and out of your truck 150 times 5days a week and handling 300-600 packages in every kind of weather. And do you think UPS cares if your 50 years old? or 55? The contract says it's suppose to be taken into consideration. NEVER in over 25 years with UPS have I ever seen it taken into consideration! NEVER! Not once. Do you think your as healthy or as strong as you were when you were 25 years old? Your'e not! 8 hour request, over 9.5, following the letter of the contract, these are things that need to be addressed now. Why doesn't UPS want their employees to have 2 days a month when they don't have to work till7 pm. Aren't our families as importent as yours. Aren't we entitled twice a month to see one of our kids soccer, baseball or dance recitals? We are there every day and we get the job done. We are honest, hard-working, and dependable. How about a little respect instead of busting our chops every day because you want to make more than 4 BILLION in profit a year.

Right on

We are industrial athletes is what UPS has told us. Not so many athletes in their 40's or 50's.
Or we could load up on Vicodin like Brett Favre.
Staying out til 7:00 makes it so they don't have to hire more drivers and pay more benis, etc
But I only state the obvious

 

[girlfeia]

if you vote yes to this new contract with all the hidden language the union want to seperate the partime from the full timers on the penstion
which would mean retirement would be half of what it is now . why would any one work 35 years at a hard labor jobs think about it, a easy answer would be to vote no and let them go back to the tables we still have almost a year to talk they are pushing this way to early. they are sneaky both sides

 

[tieguy]

if you vote yes to this new contract with all the hidden language

Ok where did they hide the language?

the union want to seperate the partime from the full timers on the penstion

anyone wanna explain this one?

which would mean retirement would be half of what it is now .

why does that mean this?

why would any one work 35 years at a hard labor jobs think about it, a easy answer would be to vote no and let them go back to the tables we still have almost a year to talk

someone needs to tell her how much time is left. then tell her there is only a month left before the new pension laws kick in.

they are pushing this way to early. they are sneaky both sides

everyone forget why we wanted to settle this thing early. Like to save jobs from volume diversion? you guys must run straight to the hysteria and skip the basic contract education. You need to help this poor girl understand the basics before you start feeding her all the normal misinformation

 

[sawdusttv]

everyone forget why we wanted to settle this thing early. Like to save jobs from volume diversion? you guys must run straight to the hysteria and skip the basic contract education. You need to help this poor girl understand the basics before you start feeding her all the normal misinformation

There you go with your misinformation crap again, and yet all you can do is misinform by answering posts with more questions!
They need to send you back to sup. school, because you are using out of date management tactics. anyone with any time in can see right through them.

If the company was so concerned about settling this thing early, they would have come up with a much more serious offer!!

 

[moreluck]

After reading comments from both sides of this thing, I get the impression that if a "perfect" contract was presented, there would still be gripes and complaints about it........"Why is it printed in black ink, I wanted blue ink, etc. etc."

 

[30andout]

if you vote yes to this new contract with all the hidden language the union want to seperate the partime from the full timers on the penstion
which would mean retirement would be half of what it is now . why would any one work 35 years at a hard labor jobs think about it, a easy answer would be to vote no and let them go back to the tables we still have almost a year to talk they are pushing this way to early. they are sneaky both sides

How do you get to be a senior member with only 1 post???? Where are all these naysayers coming from?????