You Might Be Libertarian if you are analytical in your political beliefs

[Sportello]

It's sad how our education system has failed you.

Wrong!

 

[vantexan]

Wrong!

I guess I was wrong since you just spelled a word with 5 letters!

 

[floridays]

I guess I was wrong since you just spelled a word with 5 letters!

Chick agreed, big green check mark, all for placing 5 letters in the correct order to form a word. Amazing, simply amazing.

 

[newfie]

My point is that we should find what common ground we can, while understanding we cannot please everyone all the time. .

that should be the libertarian mantra or maybe "we wont please many at any time?"

all sounds wonderful but you wont change the nature of politics that being to pit one group against another

 

[zubenelgenubi]

that should be the libertarian mantra or maybe "we wont please many at any time?"

all sounds wonderful but you wont change the nature of politics that being to pit one group against another

It all starts with an idea, and working to spread it. Things change, I don't have any pie in the sky expectations that it'll get better over night. But maybe within a generation or two...

 

[floridays]

It all starts with an idea, and working to spread it. Things change, I don't have any pie in the sky expectations that it'll get better over night. But maybe within a generation or two...

2033 it keeps getting progressively worse, what would give you the anticipation that it may get better. Simply a question, searching for an answer as are you.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

2033 it keeps getting progressively worse, what would give you the anticipation that it may get better. Simply a question, searching for an answer as are you.

I'm hopeful, not necessarily optimistic. It seems to me that some of the ideas being espoused by mainstream conservatives and liberals (as I understand them) are starting to move further from the extremes and more toward a moderate view. This suggests to me that people are waking up to the fact that extreme views on either side are counterproductive. I may be wrong, but those are the trends I'm seeing.

For example, when universities students started rioting to prevent conservatives from speaking to conservative groups on campus, the more mainstream liberals in the media seemed to approve of their actions. Now that it's starting to affect more than just conservatives, the liberals are waking up to the fact that these anti-free speech demonstrations are a bad idea. Even Bill Maher is starting to trash them, and that's saying something. I could continue, but I'm trying to keep my posts from being too long to read.

 

[floridays]

I'm hopeful, not necessarily optimistic. It seems to me that some of the ideas being espoused by mainstream conservatives and liberals (as I understand them) are starting to move further from the extremes and more toward a moderate view. This suggests to me that people are waking up to the fact that extreme views on either side are counterproductive. I may be wrong, but those are the trends I'm seeing.

For example, when universities students started rioting to prevent conservatives from speaking to conservative groups on campus, the more mainstream liberals in the media seemed to approve of their actions. Now that it's starting to affect more than just conservatives, the liberals are waking up to the fact that these anti-free speech demonstrations are a bad idea. Even Bill Maher is starting to trash them, and that's saying something. I could continue, but I'm trying to keep my posts from being too long to read.

Thanks for the response 2033.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Thanks for the response 2033.

Any time.

 

[It will be fine]

I'm hopeful, not necessarily optimistic. It seems to me that some of the ideas being espoused by mainstream conservatives and liberals (as I understand them) are starting to move further from the extremes and more toward a moderate view. This suggests to me that people are waking up to the fact that extreme views on either side are counterproductive. I may be wrong, but those are the trends I'm seeing.

For example, when universities students started rioting to prevent conservatives from speaking to conservative groups on campus, the more mainstream liberals in the media seemed to approve of their actions. Now that it's starting to affect more than just conservatives, the liberals are waking up to the fact that these anti-free speech demonstrations are a bad idea. Even Bill Maher is starting to trash them, and that's saying something. I could continue, but I'm trying to keep my posts from being too long to read.

Libertarian views are pretty extreme when you draw them out to their logical conclusions, so I’m not sure why you think moderating views get you closer to a consensus anywhere near libertarianism.

 

[refineryworker05]

Dims are emotional and so are Repugs

So the online libertarians? Whether or not you agree with them, they deserve higher status for their analytical proclivities. I say bring ’em on.

So if you aren’t a libertarian, maybe you ought to give that philosophy another look. It’s a relatively exclusive club, replete with people who are politically engaged, able to handle abstract arguments and capable of deeper reflection.

... being very analytical, in some ways, puts you out of touch with the American citizenry.

For the 2016 election, one group that measured as especially nonanalytical was Democrats who crossed party lines and voted for Donald Trump. There is a stereotype of a less well-educated voter, perhaps both white and male, who reacts negatively and emotionally to Hillary Clinton, who decided to vote for Trump even if Trump’s actual policies will not prove in his best interest.

Not an expert on libertarianism. The most prominent libertarianish politician that I’m aware of is Rand Paul. When he was running for his Senate seat in like 2009 or 2010, he gave an interview that I watched. He was asked a question about the 1965civil rights bill and whether he supported its passage.

He basically said no because he thinks people have a right to be racist in their private businesses.

His reasoning was so terrible that I remembered thinking is this how libertarians think?

Yeah, they think there is some kind of magical force field of separation between giving private businesses the legal right to be racist that wouldn’t involve the government being racist.

Yet if you give private businesses the legal right to be racist, the police, the courts, elected officials will have to write laws and legally enforce and defend their right to be racist, which means the government will be carrying out racist policies against Americans

There is no way to separate the two and so the government made the correct decision that the government isn’t going to give private businesses a legal right to be racist that the government will then have to enforce and defend, which means de facto the government would be enforcing and legalizing racism against American citizens.

The fact that Rand Paul hadn’t or couldn’t work that out in his mind, and I was like libertarianism is useless to me. It’s for those who view politics as a mental exercise as a philosophy without taking in the real world implications. Not for me.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Libertarian views are pretty extreme when you draw them out to their logical conclusions, so I’m not sure why you think moderating views get you closer to a consensus anywhere near libertarianism.

No more extreme than Democrats and Republicans when you draw their views out to their logical conclusions.

 

[oldngray]

No more extreme than Democrats and Republicans when you draw their views out to their logical conclusions.

but they get to sit at the cool kids table

 

[It will be fine]

No more extreme than Democrats and Republicans when you draw their views out to their logical conclusions.

I’m not sure they’re consistent enough to draw that conclusion. Both major parties will change their views based on political winds.

 

[floridays]

I’m not sure they’re consistent enough to draw that conclusion. Both major parties will change their views based on political winds.

So you are saying both major parties have no allegiance to their core principles? Sorry, another pesky question.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Libertarian views are pretty extreme when you draw them out to their logical conclusions, so I’m not sure why you think moderating views get you closer to a consensus anywhere near libertarianism.

Again, the issue becomes a lack of agreement, or understanding, between us as to what libertarianism is. Some people who call themselves libertarian are actually closer to anarchists, which I agree is an extreme that has historically proven to lead to despotism, which is a localized version of totalitarianism, which is an extreme I disagree with.

Others think of libertarians as objectivists like Ayn Rand, whose views seem to favor the Robber Barons like Rockefeller and JP Morgan. The modern version of which would be corporatism. While I agree with some of Rands views, I don't agree that corporatism is healthy for society in general.

Perhaps my own understanding of libertarianism is flawed, though from what I do understand about it, it seems to match most closely with my own views. If my own views don't match closely enough to what libertarianism actually is, then perhaps I'm not libertarian. Not a big fan of labels anyway.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Libertarian views are pretty extreme when you draw them out to their logical conclusions, so I’m not sure why you think moderating views get you closer to a consensus anywhere near libertarianism.

Now that I've had some more time to think about your post I feel that I should clarify that the post you were replying to was an answer to a question specifically about why I think things are getting better (politically).

I made no assertions about libertarianism in that post, as you suggested that I did. The point I was responding to in my last post, that I believe you were trying to make, is that you don't believe libertarian views are moderate. A lot of people who claim to be libertarian will say they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal, that in and of itself is certainly a compromise that can be justifiably described as moderate.

 

[refineryworker05]

Now that I've had some more time to think about your post I feel that I should clarify that the post you were replying to was an answer to a question specifically about why I think things are getting better (politically).

I made no assertions about libertarianism in that post, as you suggested that I did. The point I was responding to in my last post, that I believe you were trying to make, is that you don't believe libertarian views are moderate. A lot of people who claim to be libertarian will say they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal, that in and of itself is certainly a compromise that can be justifiably described as moderate.

Socially liberal and fiscally conservative is rhetoric that accurately describes very few people. I’m tempted to post that it describes zero actual people, but anything is possible.

Fiscally conservative as far as I can tell equates to supporting income tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations which balloon the debt and deficit, then going for entitlement cuts(which really means social security, Medicare, and Medicaid cuts) as cuts to “welfare programs” which is spending going to undeserving people. None of that is fiscally conservative. It’s just wanting income tax cuts for the wealthy and entitlement cuts as an end to themselves.

And socially liberal are words in the American context that are so subjective as to be meaningless.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Now that I've had some more time to think about your post I feel that I should clarify that the post you were replying to was an answer to a question specifically about why I think things are getting better (politically).

I made no assertions about libertarianism in that post, as you suggested that I did. The point I was responding to in my last post, that I believe you were trying to make, is that you don't believe libertarian views are moderate. A lot of people who claim to be libertarian will say they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal, that in and of itself is certainly a compromise that can be justifiably described as moderate.

She’s just a hater!

 

[vantexan]

Socially liberal and fiscally conservative is rhetoric that accurately describes very few people. I’m tempted to post that it describes zero actual people, but anything is possible.

Fiscally conservative as far as I can tell equates to supporting income tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations which balloon the debt and deficit, then going for entitlement cuts(which really means social security, Medicare, and Medicaid cuts) as cuts to “welfare programs” which is spending going to undeserving people. None of that is fiscally conservative. It’s just wanting income tax cuts for the wealthy and entitlement cuts as an end to themselves.

And socially liberal are words in the American context that are so subjective as to be meaningless.

Where are these entitlement cuts taking place?