Youth Group Question From Last Night: God can’t allow sin into heaven? (OnTopic-No bible verses please)

[zubenelgenubi]

The question posed was not if he would or wouldn’t allow sin into Heaven.

To summarize the original confusion in the young person.

2 apparently contradictory teachings from his youth pastor.

1. Nothing is impossible for God.

2. It is impossible for God to let sin into heaven.

What say you @upschuck ?

Do you think God can let sin into heaven if he wants?’

Without trying to bible thump, depending on what understanding you subscribe to about the origin of Satan, you can argue that God did allow sin in heaven, resulting in Lucifer's expulsion from heaven to become Satan. Isaiah mentions Lucifer, who many believe to be the fallen angel who became Satan, in chapter 14. There are apocryphal stories that go into more detail. So that's one way to answer. My guess is you really wouldn't want to be the next person who tries what Lucifer did.

 

[bbsam]

No, he called them out for adding to it and expanding on it, adding rules that God never handed down in order to keep those outside the priesthood under their control, more or less. What @BrownFlush does is similar, in that he tries to claim his interpretation of what the scripture says is absolutely correct, and that if anyone disagrees with him, they are not true Christians. I'm ok with not meeting his definition of what a Christian is. It is up to each one of us to grapple with God, and come to understand Him. Depending on others to think for you leads to all sorts of atrocities.

Jesus healed on the Sabbath. He ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. He spoke as though he were speaking for God. Jesus was a radical and a threat to Jewish and Roman law. I don’t think there is any interpretation to it.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Jesus healed on the Sabbath. He ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. He spoke as though he were speaking for God. Jesus was a radical and a threat to Jewish and Roman law. I don’t think there is any interpretation to it.

Jesus told the scribes and the sudducees that the law will not be changed by a dot or a tittle until all is fulfilled. He set the example of how one follows the law. He was upsetting their system of control by abiding by God's true law, not their perverted version of it.

 

[bbsam]

Jesus told the scribes and the sudducees that the law will not be changed by a dot or a tittle until all is fulfilled. He set the example of how one follows the law. He was upsetting their system of control by abiding by God's true law, not their perverted version of it.

Their “perverted version” of it had direct lines back to Deuteronomy, The Torah, the Law of Moses. Laws that had stood for hundreds of years. It’s not like he was upending the piano bar at the local country club.

 

[BrownFlush]

Without trying to bible thump, depending on what understanding you subscribe to about the origin of Satan, you can argue that God did allow sin in heaven, resulting in Lucifer's expulsion from heaven to become Satan. Isaiah mentions Lucifer, who many believe to be the fallen angel who became Satan, in chapter 14. There are apocryphal stories that go into more detail. So that's one way to answer. My guess is you really wouldn't want to be the next person who tries what Lucifer did.

Be careful now and don't thump.
Angels (created beings who are unable to pro-create) evidently have free will also.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Their “perverted version” of it had direct lines back to Deuteronomy, The Torah, the Law of Moses. Laws that had stood for hundreds of years. It’s not like he was upending the piano bar at the local country club.

Of course their version was rooted in the original. I think we probably won't come to an understanding unless we talk more about the purpose of the law. But that's a pretty big subject. Suffice it to say, no one is capable of saving themselves through strict adherence to the law. That is why Jesus had to be sacrificed for our sins so that we could be made right with God. It's not that the law is irrelevant, it simply sets the bar by which a person might save themselves, and we all fall short.

 

[BrownFlush]

Jesus healed on the Sabbath.

Without violation of The Law.

He ate with prostitutes and tax collectors.

Without violation of The Law.

He spoke as though he were speaking for God.

He was God.

Jesus was a radical and a threat to Jewish and Roman law.

Wrong.
Always funny to me when leftist paint Jesus as some radical.
Give Caesar what is Caesars.
Jewish Law? Fulfillment of it.

I don’t think there is any interpretation to it.

Obviously

 

[Integrity]

Redirecting to the original post in a different way.

Doesn’t a logical contradiction exist even with the statement nothing is impossible with God?

Kind of like the previous stone question.

If nothing is impossible with God then does it not follow that it is impossible for anything to be impossible with God?

What say you?

 

[BrownFlush]

What @BrownFlush does is similar, in that he tries to claim his interpretation of what the scripture says is absolutely correct,

Fact: Two people and one verse of scripture or text.
Only one interpretation of it can be right.
Both people can be wrong but, only one can be right.
Both cannot be right.
You agree or disagree with this fact?

true Christians.

As opposed to a false one? What would make a false one?

his definition

Definition?
If my definition is not what the Bible teaches and what makes one a Christian, unlike you, I'm not ok with it.

 

[SLW]

Redirecting to the original post in a different way.

Doesn’t a logical contradiction exist even with the statement nothing is impossible with God?

Kind of like the previous stone question.

If nothing is impossible with God then does it not follow that it is impossible for anything to be impossible with God?

What say you?

Again, linguistic problem, not theological.

 

[Integrity]

Again, linguistic problem, not theological.

I’m not feeling it.

My mind and spirit is telling me that it may have to do more with a natural vs supernatural understanding.

I am sensing that this seeming contradictory statement and others like it, although difficult for the limited natural understanding of man to grasp are very simple for God who is unlimited and supernatural in His understanding.

 

[BrownFlush]

Suffice it to say, no one is capable of saving themselves through strict adherence to the law.

If you mean live a perfect life. No.
But many under the Law of Moses kept the law.

 

[BrownFlush]

I’m not feeling it.

My mind and spirit is telling me that it may have to do more with a natural vs supernatural understanding.

I am sensing that this seeming contradictory statement and others like it, although difficult for the limited natural understanding of man to grasp are very simple for God who is unlimited and supernatural in His understanding.

Blow

 

[BrownFlush]

Redirecting to the original post in a different way.

Doesn’t a logical contradiction exist even with the statement nothing is impossible with God?

Kind of like the previous stone question.

If nothing is impossible with God then does it not follow that it is impossible for anything to be impossible with God?

What say you?

Blow

 

[SLW]

I’m not feeling it.

My mind and spirit is telling me that it may have to do more with a natural vs supernatural understanding.

I am sensing that this seeming contradictory statement and others like it, although difficult for the limited natural understanding of man to grasp are very simple for God who is unlimited and supernatural in His understanding.

Like I mean, the thing you are asking isn't really a thing. Like if God has infinite strength can he lift something that's infinite + 1. That's certainly a scenario we can try to understand, but it's just an intellectual language game, it has nothing to do with any possible reality.

In any case, yes, human language is limited in its description of God.

 

[bbsam]

Redirecting to the original post in a different way.

Doesn’t a logical contradiction exist even with the statement nothing is impossible with God?

Kind of like the previous stone question.

If nothing is impossible with God then does it not follow that it is impossible for anything to be impossible with God?

What say you?

By design. Alpha and Omega. Omnipotent and omnipresent. These are concepts for humans to understand that which they cannot begin to understand.

 

[BrownFlush]

When it comes to what happens in the interim period between death and the final judgment, there are a wide variety of Christian views and they all have at least some scriptural support.
I think the view that "all will be saved" is wrong. But whether it's heresy/"infidelity" is a murky grey area. What I think Christians *should* do is hope and pray that it's true, that all will be saved. Just don't count on it.

Not a salvation issue with this subject.
I believe the Bible teaches physical death is like sleep.
Judgment day will be when the Lord returns.
The gift of life eternal or Hell forever will be given to each of us by the judge of all on that day

 

[imwell]

Well, @Integrity ..................???

You have nearly 6 pages of answers, ideas, and discussions.
I'm curious.
What would your answer be ?
How are you now going to answer this young student ?


What say you ?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Fact: Two people and one verse of scripture or text.
Only one interpretation of it can be right.
Both people can be wrong but, only one can be right.
Both cannot be right.
You agree or disagree with this fact?

Disagree. There can be multiple ways to interpret a scripture, some may be equally true, others may be conditional, true in some contexts, not true in others. Some may be partially correct, or correct enough to be meaningful.

As opposed to a false one? What would make a false one?

You set the terms of the question, you answer it. This is a semantical deflection from my point.

Definition?
If my definition is not what the Bible teaches and what makes one a Christian, unlike you, I'm not ok with it.

I am simply humble enough to understand that I don't understand everything. I have developed my understanding of what a Christian is, mostly by focusing on the actual teachings of the one teacher. But I realize my understanding may not be complete, so they are the standard I strive for, but will not judge others by. They have their understanding, which may not be complete. We each will be held accountable for our own lives.

 

[BrownFlush]

Disagree. There can be multiple ways to interpret a scripture, some may be equally true, others may be conditional, true in some contexts, not true in others. Some may be partially correct, or correct enough to be meaningful.

You miss. I didn't state what might be meaningful. My statement was looking for the correct meaning.
Partially correct? Well, we almost got right. lol
Yes, there are all kinds of WAYS to interpret scripture. There are as many ways as there are interpretations.
Not what I stated. I stated there can be only one correct interpretation.

You set the terms of the question, you answer it. This is a semantical deflection from my point.

Call it what you want. You deflect.
You stated a "true" Christian. My question to you was, what is a "false" one?

I am simply humble enough to understand that I don't understand everything.

Not understanding and not accepting are two different things. Doesn't have anything to do with humility . Has everything to do with honesty.