2018 YES vote : Why does the IBT BACK THIS ?

[542thruNthru]

Maybe you should find out before you post.

(Section B)

I may be wrong but this sounds like they will be able to bid routes to me.

This is Article 48 section 6 (B)

Again I'm not trying to be a ass but explain where I am wrong please.

Also before you jump on me for the 2015 number it's been change to 2020 and 2022. I just posted the old language.

 

[Heavy Package]

Tell us all why you think the current IBT is backing a YES vote

Because they negotiated it and are in bed with UPS.

The Union leadership is under major pressure from multiple sides - Pension issues, declining membership, UPS stating that it can not remain competitive, etc.

The Union is right to be worried in many cases, but this was not the year for concessions. UPS is at record profits, low unemployment, and received a huge corporate tax break. What do we get as the ones who have to work under this contract if it passes? The Union should have demanded-and got-more. I'll take 5 more good years and see what the economy and competitive environment looks like then.

This contract needs to be voted down and renegotiated.

 

[Heavy Package]

Want 22.4? OK-Have them deliver only Surepost. Let's take all that work back from the Damn Post Office. Give our inside PT members an opportunity for a higher-paying job and have an increase in the membership and workforce.

Surepost is another contract issue opportunity that was completely blown by our wonderful, highly educated and skillful Union Leadership. What a disaster.

 

[LagunaBrown]

so its easier for YOU to back this 22.4 classification than it is to actually fight for more established FT driver positions.
it's one thing that this cover position exists;
and quite frankly should have NEVER happened!
you were never pushed thru this category and it's abuse.
you were a FT utility driver who progressed via seniority to having a route; then go feeder.
sorry, but you aren't entering feeder via a 22.4 classification.
maybe you should
so we can all hear about your frustration

Going into feeder from a 22.4 position seriously? They can still bid on RPCD positions and it took me 23 years in Package to go feeder. Cry me a river!

 

[LagunaBrown]

You know what. I respect your position and I thought you held a little respect for me. But you know what, you're right. I'll do a little research instead of just blurting out what I think I know. I can understand being annoyed with people that think they know all the supplemental language across the country.

You're a good Soldier for the west( with your knowledge and commitment) but don't turn into a jaded because of this site you won't help your cause.





No shut up

View attachment 214998

I’m not. Just expected more for you. Are you confusing weekly bids with bid runs?

 

[LagunaBrown]

We only have full time feeder drivers here. We have feeder cover drivers. Who cover feeder runs when necessary. Bidding starts with full timers then goes to part timers. Feeder cover drivers bump to the job they had prior to bidding. Instead of being laid off.

Same here as RPCDs we keep our pkg route and Center seniority till we get a bid feeder run. Then officially in feeder the difference is no part timers for us. Our feeder internet list is at a 23 year wait.

 

[LagunaBrown]

Want 22.4? OK-Have them deliver only Surepost. Let's take all that work back from the Damn Post Office. Give our inside PT members an opportunity for a higher-paying job and have an increase in the membership and workforce.

Surepost is another contract issue opportunity that was completely blown by our wonderful, highly educated and skillful Union Leadership. What a disaster.

There is meat on the bone regarding surepost for sure.

 

[Indecisi0n]

Actually no, I do believe that the Union proposed the 22.4 language.

UPS couldn't believe it and are trying their best to prove @UpstateNYUPSer right with a two tier wage system.

Tagging Nancy will get you banned here.

 

[The Real Jack RyanMI6]

Tell us all why you think the current IBT is backing a YES vote

What is the REAL reason behind this

Dint have a clue. One thing has become very very clear to me. Both UPS and The IBT, completely and it seems purposely, didnt attempt to make there point in ways that, there was little rebuttal too. Disclaimer, im not in favor of it just giving a different point of view. Look at any section of the contract. Take for instance The Two Teir driver. This is roughly the way a friend of mine who has been a labor contract lawyer for 31 years put it.Yes were asking you to implement a two-tier system in full time. Many other unions such as the UAW, have had them as well. Now we are asking you to implement this in two distinct and unique ways.
1. Historically two teirs are cynical they come into place and get gradually phased out in 8 to 12 years. This is currently happening at the UAW. We see many more negatives with that style or type than positive points. So were asking to adopt one permanently, as we have in part time. The red circled employees make considerably more than any part timer could ever hope to. This too has the negative effect of suppressing wages, however unlike the cyclical style it creates health for the company and jobs many more jobs. Those in turn allow you upward mobility you would not otherwise have. Now i understand that seems like a lie to you due to the long wait times to go fulltime, however if we hadn't done this long ago in part time the wait would most likely be longer.
2nd Unlike the cyclical style of two tier the style weve adopted allows for the gradual upward movement for those on the bottom teir. Which is Unlike our current part time agreement.


Now ill be the first ti o admit id still vote no on such a proposal, i dont like two tier in any form, shape, or style. However, that argument is based on variable facts and some reasonable guesses as to our part in growung jobs in the company. With such ways of stating their case its amazing and bizarre that both parties purposely didnt. Now you may feel that perhaps Jammie out of locol 174 did. Maybe so but in my experience she was a lone voice or at lease minority of the arguments i heard for this contract from either the company or union. Most were simply bizarre and in several cases flat out lies. All that was so unfortunate and unnecessary. Well phase one of this madness will be over on Friday, then its time to regroup for round 2 after peak.

 

[Mugarolla]

Tagging Nancy will get you banned here.

Please don't ban me O' Great One.

Life would be over without Brown Cafe. I mean look at all the retired posters that just can't move on.

I respect @UpstateNYUPSer in the fact that he said after he retired that he would not be back. And unless he created another account, he has so far, I say so far, lived up to his word.

 

[cachmeifucan]

Retirees should be on here they don't have a vote but the contract still impacts them. They have the experience and wisdom usually. They should be pushing a no vote. So a few years ago our retirees health insurance went from 50 a month to around 450 coincidence it was teamcare

 

[Indecisi0n]

Please don't ban me O' Great One.

Life would be over without Brown Cafe. I mean look at all the retired posters that just can't move on.

I respect @UpstateNYUPSer in the fact that he said after he retired that he would not be back. And unless he created another account, he has so far, I say so far, lived up to his word.

He has been caught with multiple accounts.

 

[Mooseknuckle]

Actually no, I do believe that the Union proposed the 22.4 language.

UPS couldn't believe it and are trying their best to prove @UpstateNYUPSer right with a two tier wage system.

We've had management spilling the beans on this long before negotiations even started. Dead give away where this came from. I've even read this on browncafe at least a couple of years ago just like we all know that our pensions will be the issue on the next negotiations. It's a joke that our union proposed this.

 

[Mooseknuckle]

Most places already have a two tier driver and if they dont then they use casuals (guys off the street) to cover peak or vacations.

You literally just keep saying the same nonsense over and over.

 

[Mooseknuckle]

Did you not read what I said about routes being in? If they put 25% more 22.4’s that’s 25% more cars on road and they would be forced to hire more full time drivers. Any route in 3 out of 5 days for 30 days it considered a Route and can only be bid to RPCD’s. Get it?

In the language YOU have IN YOUR building RIGHT NOW if they use ANY cover driver either singularly or in combination for more than one year it will create another FULL-TIME job. That IS YOUR current language. That IS NOT what is happening. YOU DO NOT HAVE TWO TIER DRIVERS NOW! Only a weak local. We don't want that in the rest of the country. That is the really simple fact you are not getting. Stay away from the kool-aid, it's not good for you.

 

[LagunaBrown]

In the language YOU have IN YOUR building RIGHT NOW if they use ANY cover driver either singularly or in combination for more than one year it will create another FULL-TIME job. That IS YOUR current language. That IS NOT what is happening. YOU DO NOT HAVE TWO TIER DRIVERS NOW! Only a weak local. We don't want that in the rest of the country. That is the really simple fact you are not getting. Stay away from the kool-aid, it's not good for you.

You obviously don’t know how it was grieved and how we make the company hire full time drivers because of “Cover Driver Ratios”. Not to mention they allow our guys to start RPCD progression at $27 dollars an hour instead of YOUR $18. Sorry but that is a way better deal than you. Not to mention YOUR NOT VOTING ON GETTING RID OF EXISTING 2 TIER DRIVERS! The whole idea that they have been in the contract for 30 years and you guys think you can change that with a no vote is complete stupidity by the vote no regime. Your knowledge of our contract is pathetic, stick to your lower paid contract that uses off the street hires to Cover vacation and peak instead of Teamsters.

 

[BadIdeaGuy]

You obviously don’t know how it was grieved and how we make the company hire full time drivers because of “Cover Driver Ratios”. Not to mention they allow our guys to start RPCD progression at $27 dollars an hour instead of YOUR $18. Sorry but that is a way better deal than you. Not to mention YOUR NOT VOTING ON GETTING RID OF EXISTING 2 TIER DRIVERS! The whole idea that they have been in the contract for 30 years and you guys think you can change that with a no vote is complete stupidity by the vote no regime. Your knowledge of our contract is pathetic, stick to your lower paid contract that uses off the street hires to Cover vacation and peak instead of Teamsters.

I follow that logic. Since we already have a lower caste of drivers, let's make a third!
And then let's add in some disparaging comments about other peoples' knowledge of the contract, in case that doesn't work.

Almost seems like you vote yes guys are running scared.

 

[LagunaBrown]

I follow that logic. Since we already have a lower caste of drivers, let's make a third!
And then let's add in some disparaging comments about other peoples' knowledge of the contract, in case that doesn't work.

Almost seems like you vote yes guys are running scared.

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that the 22.4 is an improvement (full time pension, healthcare and slight raise) over the current two tier driver and will replace most of them and NOT the RPCD. You do realize if you vote no we still keep the current two tier driver and you are agreeing to keep them paid less. Your are NOT voting on eliminating two tier drivers that already exist. There is no running scared it is pure logic. You are voting no to keep a worse deal period. It’s like taking to a wall with you guys. If you want to vote no go ahead but I’m telling you that you guys are missing the intent of the language here in the West.

 

[govols019]

We don't care about the intent of the language in the West, same as you obviously don't care about language outside your region.

 

[silenze]

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that the 22.4 is an improvement (full time pension, healthcare and slight raise) over the current two tier driver and will replace most of them and NOT the RPCD. You do realize if you vote no we still keep the current two tier driver and you are agreeing to keep them paid less. Your are NOT voting on eliminating two tier drivers that already exist. There is no running scared it is pure logic. You are voting no to keep a worse deal period. It’s like taking to a wall with you guys. If you want to vote no go ahead but I’m telling you that you guys are missing the intent of the language here in the West.

Your guys will now go from 2 tier to 22.4. If you already have Saturday delivery those jobs are lost. There will be at least another 5 years before enough rpcd retire to allow a 22.4 to fill a protected rpcd job. By then Denis T would have increased the 25% cap on 22.4
You just voted to keep your 2 tier drivers permanently at a lower rate