Just depends where you live at and how much competition from other companies trying to attract employees
2023 contract
- Thread starter IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U
- Start date
MyTripisCut
Never bought my own handtruck
Red Devil
The Power of Connected
Yeah where I am they hire at least half the drivers off the street because no part-timers want to sign any full-time bids. Hell, the part-timers barely even want to come in for their actual PART time jobs.
PT 4 Life
Most-Hated Member
Way faster to become a driver now though. I barely see any bids being put up for full time inside work
Why Wednesday through Sunday? Why not Sunday through Thursday?
Its_a_me
Well-Known Member
That is because the union got beat so badly at the negotiation table--on the best contract ever-- the company was forced to give part-timers more money on their own during this CBA. When the company wanted to get rid of those union employees, to bump a sagging stock price, they took it away. So now the company has a tool that is beyond the reach of the union CBA for hiring and essentially firing.
Digest that one: the company, on its own, felt a union negotiated wage was too low to be a starting part-time salary. And new employees think the union is worthless to protect their salaries--or at the very least negotiate competitive ones.
Local fast food places down the road pay more (or the same) with a known schedule of 20-35 hours per week--not one day you're in at 2am and done at 7:30am the next day it's 4:45am to 9:00am like here.
Kids under 26 don't care about insurance and benefits as they are on their parents insurance plans still. So even when you get someone new they are mid-30's to mid 50's now and you find out they have 3-5 kids and are bankrupting the union health care plan one dr visit at a time plus constantly calling in as such as such family reason--but will be kept since they are desperate for bodies. We have one guy who only works Mondays (no other time for UPS)---I didn't know that was an option....I have more seniority: Can I do that instead of him and still get benefits?
The union's poorly negotiated CBA is the root of all these symptoms. But somehow I doubt the 2023 contract will fix any of them.
TeltBender
Well-Known Member
Air conditioning…
Swanson
Henry Swanson's my name, and excitement's my game.
Pizza in the break room,donuts on the sups desk,igloos full of gatoraid
What people fail to understand the original tent of a part-time job was for college students.
And if he wasn't in college it was fortunate enough to get a job back in the day that was your way to get your foot in the door to a better full time driving job.
Yes many part-time jobs pay more per hour but do not have the benefits that we do here.
What part-time job could you work 30 years into the $2,000 month pension? Plus have free healthcare? And some good time off won't you get some seniority...
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
So I guess you wouldn't mind taking a $10/hr pay cut because you have all of these great benefits and a $4000/mo pension after 35 years? And the 7 weeks paid vacation every year?
KearsargeCoop
Baseball, dart board
Will the union supply a standard survey type form to hand out to rank and file or is that something the stewards would be responsible for drafting up?
not here for the drama
New Member
Pay (Preload) - Starting rate needs to be pegged to a percentage of top rate. This will save the company and union a lot of hand wringing at negotiating time. If we peg this to top rate, both sides can forever stop going back and forth about it with the company side saying "tell us what you'll give us back" and the union side saying "we aren't negotiating it...we are just telling you you need to pay more if you want to attract more people and more talented people (responsible, hard working, etc)". I say peg starting rate to 50% of top rate. Example...say top rate is $40 this year and yearly raises are $1, that means every employee who starts this year starts at $20. next year, when top rate goes to $41 (and employees hired at $20 go to $21), starting rate goes to $20.50. Forevermore, permanent preloaders (those who don't want to move up) make a little more than new employees and the company doesn't get caught with their pants down like at the end of last contract where company was starting at $9.75 (or whatever it was) while even coffee shops were starting at $12-$14. The company won't ever again have to worry about "keeping up with the times", as the percentage mechanism automatically floats starting wages up.
Pay (Top Rate) - Top rate needs to go up by a percentage, not a dollar amount. We start getting behind once again because the contract goes $.50, $.50, $1, $1, $1. These numbers don't keep up with inflation. I'm talking "normal" yearly inflation here, by the way. This is unsustainable long term (I'm talking really long term, like 5-6 contracts down the road). Eventually these raises not even keeping up with inflation will lead the company into a situation where they aren't attracting the top talent in the logistics marketplace. Of course, thinking short term, the company would rather pay less to the union members for more work. Long term, does UPS really want to position itself as attracting from the same pool of talent that our inferior competition does? There is a reason that UPS can go into places that others can't. Heck, even we trust our UPS driver (and I don't live in the area my building delivers to so I don't know our driver) with access codes that I would never ever give out to others. UPS, for all of the infighting between the company and union, has the most respected workforce in the logistics space. This is because we attract the first cut of logistics employees. Do we want to get to the point where we have second dibs, or third dibs? Our service attracts a premium price compared to the competition because we deliver a premium service by premium employees. Normal inflation being 3%, and the company wants some wage pressure relief, make the 5 year raises be 2.5%, 2.5%, 3%, 3.5%, 4%. The company gets a little wage relief for a couple of years, we break even one year, and the union gets a legitimate raise a couple of years. Again, by dealing in percentages, while still being competitive for talent and with pricing for packages, we can stop negotiating about money every five years forever.
Pay (Summation) - Lets stop talking about money, and talk about the real issues that affect the company and employees. Let's peg money to percentages instead of actual dollars and never have to talk about money again at the table. The employees retain top of the market compensation, while the company can project out cost certainty for labor and protect their position as getting first dibs on logistics employees. Finally, let's not forget that top rate being higher is good for management too. I have heard too many non union employees complain about top rate to count. Do on road supervisors not realize that if driver's made $50,000, supervisors would make $60,000? The only reason supervisors make $110,000 is because drivers make $100,000. We need to attract top talent, from the starting preloader, to the supervisors, to the district, etc.
Mon-Sat Business - Can we start with the inevitability that we are eventually going to be a Monday-Sunday business? We want to stay competitive in the marketplace. We can't have the competition delivering on Sundays while we don't (just like we started Saturdays because we couldn't stand by and watch the competition on that day). For the sake of the company's bottom line, growth, and etc. (which is good for the employees too because we all need a healthy company for the health of our pensions and robust healthcare), we have to enter the Sunday delivery space. how do we do that and not have Sunday be a firestorm just like Monday's and Saturday's are now? Monday's are bad because we are missing the Tuesday-Saturday employees, and Saturday's are bad because we are missing the Monday-Friday employees. Then, from Tuesday to Friday, we have too many people...too many preloaders, too many drivers, too many supervisors, just too much. How does each side get what they want?
Company gets...
Monday-Sunday operations
employees get split up completely instead of overlapping (discussed below)
Union gets...
no more 22.4. No employee, anywhere, for any company, in 2022, should be making less than their equals. How has "equal pay for equal work" not called this out yet? It's disgusting, whether we are talking about drivers, supervisors, OMS, whoever.
employees get split up completely instead of overlapping. You get hired on as a Friday-Sunday employee, and work your way to Monday-Thursday. We have our normal daily operations with no weird Saturday or weird Monday stuff (and eventually weird Sunday stuff). Everyday is just a normal operating day for the company. From preloaders, to drivers, to supervisors...you start with weekends, and seniority your way into weekdays. The biggest gripe will come from those who need or want 5 or 6 days. There are plenty of employees who want extra days off! I am sure Susan on Monday-Thursday can find a Bob on Friday-Sunday who wants to give up his Friday (or Sunday) almost every week of the year. If a four day person wants five days every week of the year, I'm sure they can find that fifth day on around 50 out of 52 weeks each year. There is no problem here.
no more wage progression. New drivers have to start at top rate if they are only getting three days a week. Coming up from preload, they are getting a big enough raise to top rate that they are still netting more than they were at four days of preload (assuming they were on preload long enough to seniority out of Friday-Sunday), so there is no loss here. The company has to pay more because you can't pay $25/hr for only three days...just not living wages for an adult trying to buy a house, establish a family, etc...and the new "progression" from an employee sense is working into that fourth guaranteed day each week.
Mon-Sat Business (Summation) - We are going to Monday-Sunday operations eventually. It is good for the company and employees alike (albeit for, maybe, divergent reasons). Instead of fighting each other every step of the way, how can we make this happen for the good of the company with the employees being compensated along the way? Let's do right for the company to remain competitive in a competitive field while at the same time doing right by the employees.
I know that there are many other issues and minutiae to find common ground on, or indeed fight on. I know that there are thousands of you just on here who have ideas of what needs to be addressed. These are just a couple of big picture things I have noticed in my time with the company that I haven't really ever seen discussed. I hate to see us waging world war with each other for every inch of ground when I see a very reasonable middle ground on these particular issues. This is my first post ever, and maybe my last, but I just wanted to get my two cents off of my chest. I know there are many other issues that many of you are passionate about, and you should get your due too, but these were mine. I tried to write this as balanced as I could so you couldn't tell what kind of position I have in the company, because I genuinely feel that this is fair for both sides.
Note: Edited because the format posted wonky. No words were changed.
Pay (Top Rate) - Top rate needs to go up by a percentage, not a dollar amount. We start getting behind once again because the contract goes $.50, $.50, $1, $1, $1. These numbers don't keep up with inflation. I'm talking "normal" yearly inflation here, by the way. This is unsustainable long term (I'm talking really long term, like 5-6 contracts down the road). Eventually these raises not even keeping up with inflation will lead the company into a situation where they aren't attracting the top talent in the logistics marketplace. Of course, thinking short term, the company would rather pay less to the union members for more work. Long term, does UPS really want to position itself as attracting from the same pool of talent that our inferior competition does? There is a reason that UPS can go into places that others can't. Heck, even we trust our UPS driver (and I don't live in the area my building delivers to so I don't know our driver) with access codes that I would never ever give out to others. UPS, for all of the infighting between the company and union, has the most respected workforce in the logistics space. This is because we attract the first cut of logistics employees. Do we want to get to the point where we have second dibs, or third dibs? Our service attracts a premium price compared to the competition because we deliver a premium service by premium employees. Normal inflation being 3%, and the company wants some wage pressure relief, make the 5 year raises be 2.5%, 2.5%, 3%, 3.5%, 4%. The company gets a little wage relief for a couple of years, we break even one year, and the union gets a legitimate raise a couple of years. Again, by dealing in percentages, while still being competitive for talent and with pricing for packages, we can stop negotiating about money every five years forever.
Pay (Summation) - Lets stop talking about money, and talk about the real issues that affect the company and employees. Let's peg money to percentages instead of actual dollars and never have to talk about money again at the table. The employees retain top of the market compensation, while the company can project out cost certainty for labor and protect their position as getting first dibs on logistics employees. Finally, let's not forget that top rate being higher is good for management too. I have heard too many non union employees complain about top rate to count. Do on road supervisors not realize that if driver's made $50,000, supervisors would make $60,000? The only reason supervisors make $110,000 is because drivers make $100,000. We need to attract top talent, from the starting preloader, to the supervisors, to the district, etc.
Mon-Sat Business - Can we start with the inevitability that we are eventually going to be a Monday-Sunday business? We want to stay competitive in the marketplace. We can't have the competition delivering on Sundays while we don't (just like we started Saturdays because we couldn't stand by and watch the competition on that day). For the sake of the company's bottom line, growth, and etc. (which is good for the employees too because we all need a healthy company for the health of our pensions and robust healthcare), we have to enter the Sunday delivery space. how do we do that and not have Sunday be a firestorm just like Monday's and Saturday's are now? Monday's are bad because we are missing the Tuesday-Saturday employees, and Saturday's are bad because we are missing the Monday-Friday employees. Then, from Tuesday to Friday, we have too many people...too many preloaders, too many drivers, too many supervisors, just too much. How does each side get what they want?
Company gets...
Monday-Sunday operations
employees get split up completely instead of overlapping (discussed below)
Union gets...
no more 22.4. No employee, anywhere, for any company, in 2022, should be making less than their equals. How has "equal pay for equal work" not called this out yet? It's disgusting, whether we are talking about drivers, supervisors, OMS, whoever.
employees get split up completely instead of overlapping. You get hired on as a Friday-Sunday employee, and work your way to Monday-Thursday. We have our normal daily operations with no weird Saturday or weird Monday stuff (and eventually weird Sunday stuff). Everyday is just a normal operating day for the company. From preloaders, to drivers, to supervisors...you start with weekends, and seniority your way into weekdays. The biggest gripe will come from those who need or want 5 or 6 days. There are plenty of employees who want extra days off! I am sure Susan on Monday-Thursday can find a Bob on Friday-Sunday who wants to give up his Friday (or Sunday) almost every week of the year. If a four day person wants five days every week of the year, I'm sure they can find that fifth day on around 50 out of 52 weeks each year. There is no problem here.
no more wage progression. New drivers have to start at top rate if they are only getting three days a week. Coming up from preload, they are getting a big enough raise to top rate that they are still netting more than they were at four days of preload (assuming they were on preload long enough to seniority out of Friday-Sunday), so there is no loss here. The company has to pay more because you can't pay $25/hr for only three days...just not living wages for an adult trying to buy a house, establish a family, etc...and the new "progression" from an employee sense is working into that fourth guaranteed day each week.
Mon-Sat Business (Summation) - We are going to Monday-Sunday operations eventually. It is good for the company and employees alike (albeit for, maybe, divergent reasons). Instead of fighting each other every step of the way, how can we make this happen for the good of the company with the employees being compensated along the way? Let's do right for the company to remain competitive in a competitive field while at the same time doing right by the employees.
I know that there are many other issues and minutiae to find common ground on, or indeed fight on. I know that there are thousands of you just on here who have ideas of what needs to be addressed. These are just a couple of big picture things I have noticed in my time with the company that I haven't really ever seen discussed. I hate to see us waging world war with each other for every inch of ground when I see a very reasonable middle ground on these particular issues. This is my first post ever, and maybe my last, but I just wanted to get my two cents off of my chest. I know there are many other issues that many of you are passionate about, and you should get your due too, but these were mine. I tried to write this as balanced as I could so you couldn't tell what kind of position I have in the company, because I genuinely feel that this is fair for both sides.
Note: Edited because the format posted wonky. No words were changed.
Last edited:
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Why didn't these part-timers (who outnumber full-timers) convincingly vote down that contract and those before it if wages were so grossly sufficient?
UndressedFedexed
DQd Day One
Remove all beeping from all trucks
We did in 2018
Less than 47% of the people voted
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
I honestly do not understand how people refuse to vote.
You can not possibly make it any easier
KearsargeCoop
Baseball, dart board
Well this obviously needs to change next year.
