Anonymous 10
Guest
Maybe you should have put that in a private message that messed up.
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396 meeting Sunday June 2, 2013
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Anonymous 10
Guest
I'm sorry hoaxster
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
It's misleading because you aren't telling the whole story, and apparently don't know the whole story, because you apparently can't be bothered to read the news. APPARENTLY you haven't ever heard of a little airline named AMERICA WEST AIRLINES which merged with U.S. AIRWAYS, which also merged with AMERICAN AIRLINES both of which have BANKRUPTCY ISSUSES and both of which has been a complete morass on our resources for the Teamster BROTHERS & SISTERS we represent there who are still waiting patiently (and in some cases not so patiently) for a CBA and for their seniority issues to be settled among all the players which include several other Unions and a CEO renowned for his anti-Union activities & alliances with anti Labor groups. OR I SUPPOSE we could just abandon these TEAMSTER BROTHERS & SISTERS and just have our Local sued into OBLIVION for failure to represent. MIGHT I ALSO MENTION that we are representing more than 2/3 NON-DUES PAYING MEMBERS which are (surprise surprise) causing a drain on our resources but let me just state that, for the record, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support those who cling to the idea that the UNION should "SHOW THEM WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR ME" & Beg & PLEAD (depending on the case & desire) to "bring in more money" so our LM-2 can look pretty for you & EVIL in this LOVELY RIGHT TO WORK (for less) State that I live in.
SO in case my sarcasm didn't translate well over the internet, google "GFYS".
That is a simple question. Andy M is being sent to locals outside his jurisdiction to take the heat, and DEFLECT the heat from locals directly affected by this T.A. Its "political cover" for guys like Ron H.
Ron sits on the Eboard of the international, and He has NO CHOICE but to accept this T.A. or attempt to FACE down his entire International Eboard. That means, he will have to go against Hoffa/Hall and in the political arena, that would be political suicide.
Ron is trying hard to avoid direct involvement with this contract, but what awaits him is trouble. If this contract is ratified, and the percentage of NO votes in local 396 is the majority, then he will surely be removed from office in the next election (2014) Those NO votes will be the votes that will ultimately decide the fate of the next Secretary treasurer.
Its all political at this point. The international wants this contract to pass no matter what. They gave Andy and the west 6 months of "potential cover" to hide behind the "we are going to see if we can get a better plan" story.
Ask yourself why HOFFA himself isnt out here explaning this contract to us all? Last time I checked, he was still the General President of the Teamsters. This T.A. is being handled at such a Low Level response because they dont care what "we" think. Its a numbers game. The international believes it has the votes nationwide to OUTVOTE us here in the west, so giving us attention is a low priority at this point.
This is why we need to STAND together and Kick this T.A. to the curb. IF HOFFA wont come to us, then we take this fight to HIM. By rejecting it, we will send our voices loud and clear to HOFFA that he cant make a backdoor deal with the company and then shove it down our throats.
The party is just starting.
Peace
TOS
Anonymous 10
Guest
You don't have to explain to these ignorant posters. We know where you are coming from. They people are a waste of your time and will be gone soon.
Realbrown can only say what he is told to say by the dissident group even if he doesn't have the facts. That's his job.
LagunaBrown
Well-Known Member
As if you know.... I'll stack my grievances vs yours and see who fights for members and who is an Internet cheerleader. Go pump your fist like you know something. I never addressed questions to you cause your an obvious tool. TOS has a brain but if you want a little fire scarecrow (realbrown) I'll be happy to send some heat your way.
realbrown1
Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Maybe if your boy Andy wasn't doing his "tour" of the west coast locals that are too afraid to face their membership on their own, and taking care of his own local and jc business, I would cut local 104 some slack. But that ain't happening. He was just at 396 on Sunday and will be at 952 on Saturday.
Just a thought-----who is paying for these trips-----which should be unnecessary if this was a good TA for the west.
realbrown1
Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Bla,Bla,Bla. You don't make alot of sense. And you are OG Cheerleader like stink, 407 and heffernan. You never challenge one word any of them have to say. So get over your bigotry of the vote NO crowd and GFYS.
realbrown1
Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Making crap up again. Nobody tells me what to say. So stop your lying Stink.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
That is a fairly accurate assessment, although I truly believe Andy is going to try and put together a better plan, not just hide behind the "political cover". I know he almost quit over this whole deal and I don't blame him. Yes he is paid well for what he does, but the man earns it and anyone who has ever been in one of our barn meetings knows he tells it to you straight & is a man of integrity. He doesn't need this headache, he could go back to Package and retire the next day (yes he did the same job most all of us have). I have a lot of respect for him going out and taking all the heat on this in the other Locals. I think if we had made more of a stink when the Company had first brought up this BS healthcare package, Ken would have had more ammuntion at the table. I blame that and all the locals who bargained away their maintenance of standards clauses years ago for whatever reason. Doesn't really matter as a little solidarity would stop this nonsense cold in it's tracks. Once again it will all be the Union's fault.
I've decided I'm voting No but not because I think anyone sold us out. I think if the TA is soundly voted down there is still time to get a CBA that restores our healthcare by August 1st. If it's voted down it will be blatantly obvious that that is the reason & easy to fix. If it goes through then yes, people will get voted out of office and we'll be left with a buch of yahoos who don't know what they are doing and things will get a lot worse before they get better.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
It must be cold down there in your hole. Thanks for digging it there, thats just where we needed an outhouse. Can't afford modern plumbin' at my Local y'know.
THis is the ultimate "sad part" of these negotiations. The tactics by the company are working perfectly, and they are sitting around making popcorn and watching us tear each other apart when we should be united.
The "real" end game folks.
To make us fight with each other. Each region fighting for whatever piece of the pie they can get while the others try to take it away. I dont want to see us attacking each other, unless of course you are an idiot like "skank".
However, what we are seeing with all these posts is exactly what the "company" wants. As I said in another post:
"United we stand, divided we fall" and as we attack each other, the only thing left is to hit the ground.
I believe we all care about our jobs and fellow members. I think we lost track of the unity that we need to stay strong. I blame HOFFA for this. I blame the locals for this.
Lets knock off the name calling and take each other seriously, well except for Stink, cause we dont have enough teamsters shirts or hats to convince him to use his brain.
Peace
TOS
Since your LM2 hunting, check out local 805. Sandy Pope spent 1.7 million in "organizing" and her membership went down. People wanted her running our show? Lol
LM2's for Local 805?
Where did my hooker comment go? Sorry H
You call him a bigot? Then you say he never challanges us? But he is a bigot? Yet doesn't challange? What are you even trying to say Realclown1?
You first line says it all. "Bla,Bla,Bla. You don't make alot of sense." You sound like a whiny little girl.
I also agree with this assessment. I find it unfortunate that the international put brother Marshall into this situation, but i maintain that the six month "find a better plan" is still political cover. The talk in our yards, is that "our" 396 leadership has let us down. There is already talk amongst the members of voting out our secretary treasurer and his officers over this contract should it pass. This can be expected. Even brother Marshall himself said at "our" meeting ( while H hid in the back) that this contract could jeopardize some local leaders.
He knows the ramifications of a contract passing that members in the west hate. Brother Marshall is no idiot. He knows that RON and others in so. cal and arizona could be in political trouble. Unfortunately, the math isnt in brother Marshalls favor when it comes to establishing a new administrator to oversee a health plan. The cost of creating an agency would take too much of the allocated monies intended to purchase the plans.
We really dont need to be accountants to figure that one out. This six month plan was designed ( imo ) to fake us out, and if you listen to what Brother Marshall said at the meeting, he held up the C6 page and said "this is what your voting for"...
No need to read between the lines. He was communicating it loud and clear.
I too, would like to see a better plan, even if it means I have to pay a little towards it. What I dont want to see, is to pay for an inferior plan that i have no control over. The real issue for me Brother 104 is contained in the MOU relating to the wests carve out.
It states "NOTHING IN THIS AGREEMENT SHALL PRECLUDE THE CSH&W FROM CHANGING EMPLOYEE BENEFIT LEVELS".
Now, the trustees of the central states have total control of the C6 plan. If the trustees motion a vote to decrease benefit levels for the southwest region, all it takes is a majority vote of the trustees and its done. THEY do not have to consult with UPS, the TEAMSTERS, the locals or the employees.
By ratifying this agreement, we give them EXCLUSIVE control over our health care for the rest of our careers.
For whatever reason, those trustees could continue to increase the out of pocket costs to the employees without any interference from UPS, the Teamsters, the locals or US.
This is not a safe bet. Its like playing craps. The point is 8, and you have to hope you dont roll a 7 before an 8 or you will lose. I am guessing, and predicting, that the trustees of the central states will modify our enhanced coverage within the first two years of the new agreement and place us in the normal C6 schedule of benefits.
Brother 104, I too am voting NO, and not because a gang of posters makes the world go round. Its because I can see long term effects today, that most people are choosing to ignore.
One last point to close my case. There are some here, who think this is a great deal, and the issue of progression doesnt mean anything to them. Well , lets examine that a little closer.
First, in order for us senior drivers to see a pension, there has to be money in the pot. That money is then invested and interest earned. In order to be successful, for every one dollar out, you would like to see 5 dollars coming in. So far, in the west, investments and income are steady. However, when the progression was extended to three years in the last contract, contributions to the fund slowed and part timers began quitting and never seeing seniority. Currently, 3 years is a long time to wait and some part timers cant make it that long and quit.
Now, they want to extend that another year to 4 years. To a full timer, that may not mean much, until you realize that all those part timers who are quitting are not going to contribute to the pension fund, and every time a part timer quits, another starts behind him/her and the 4 years starts again. Thats 8 years before the second part timer begins to contribute if he/she stays long enough. If that person quits before 4 years, then the third in line takes over and starts another 4 years. That will take it to 4 years before pension contributions begin.
The companys goal is simple. Extend the progression to the point where part timers turn into a revolving door. This has two effects. First, it limits the output of money into an employee who never sees seniority. Secondly, it chips away at the pension fund.
You see , on the other end, retirees are taking money out of the pot and that number will only INCREASE over time and on the part time end, contributions will be DECREASING. It doesnt take a math major to figure out that eventually, down the road, the pension pot will be short of money.
Then what? the Teamsters going to dump our pensions into the PBGC where they pay .25 cents on the dollar?
This is the strategy of UPS. Kill us one piece at a time. They are clearly targeting the part timers because thats where they have the most control over. Full timers dont quit as rapidly as part timers. If they can make it as hard as possible for part timers, they will surely quit, and as they quit, they stop contributing to the pension pool.
As for voting people out of office, yes, in some cases there will be people in office by default, because the members will punish encumbents for this contract, and they could possibly end up with some yahoos who dont know what they are doing, but on the other hand, there are those in the wings who are qualified, been there before, and just waiting for the right opportunity to make a move.
This contract is providing just that opportunity. time will tell.
Peace
TOS
