705?

[tieguy]

I could not work for you, you are too easy and provide no challenge. You must have a company boy union steward that agrees with everything you say.

Ah yes its important to disagree just to disagree isn't it red.

See I wouldn't mind if you disagreed if it came from you. I just don't want to have a conversation with you where I feel like I'm talking to your propaganda minister.

 

[705red]

the union picks its stewards

Not here we are elected stewards by the members in our work areas. Does not mean we still dont have company boys, sometimes people are scared to run against them. I would run against everyone of them if it was aloowed.

 

[705red]

Ah yes its important to disagree just to disagree isn't it red.

See I wouldn't mind if you disagreed if it came from you. I just don't want to have a conversation with you where I feel like I'm talking to your propaganda minister.

Tie i understand its hard for you to believe that your being out done by a single mind but its true. If you find yourself in the area come august stop by and buy me a beer, i know of a hole in the wall were you still get bottles of beer for a buck fifty right by cach.

 

[drewed]

Not here we are elected stewards by the members in our work areas. Does not mean we still dont have company boys, sometimes people are scared to run against them. I would run against everyone of them if it was aloowed.

soooo union members pick the stewards? so diff for my argument, you cant bitch about what you put into place

 

[tieguy]

the union picks its stewards

Drewed that was not my quote.

 

[tieguy]

Tie i understand its hard for you to believe that your being out done by a single mind but its true.

Red I know this is hard to understand but I'm not in a competition here. I state my opinions , you're free to disagree but you and your henchmen act like the world will end if you actually have to consider a different concept from what the union has beat into your heads.

 

[705red]

Red I know this is hard to understand but I'm not in a competition here. I state my opinions , you're free to disagree but you and your henchmen act like the world will end if you actually have to consider a different concept from what the union has beat into your heads.

I have no problems with your opinions, i actually expect them and enjoy debating them. What i have a problem with is when you sell your opinion as fact as you have by accussing me of misleading and not telling the truth.

I dont respond to every thread because i might not have a clue on what they dealing with or their language interpertation for instance. I could just post my opinion as fact but that would discredit me unless its facts im speaking of.

Your not in chicago and im getting calls from management asking whats going on and how the talks are going. So if management here in chicago have no clue how can you assume you do? What info are you receiving that they are not?

 

[tieguy]

I have no problems with your opinions, i actually expect them and enjoy debating them. What i have a problem with is when you sell your opinion as fact as you have by accussing me of misleading and not telling the truth.

I dont respond to every thread because i might not have a clue on what they dealing with or their language interpertation for instance. I could just post my opinion as fact but that would discredit me unless its facts im speaking of.

Your not in chicago and im getting calls from management asking whats going on and how the talks are going. So if management here in chicago have no clue how can you assume you do? What info are you receiving that they are not?

I'm sorry Red it was classic union propaganda at its worst. anyone who is honest can see that. I don't need to know the details to know that what you posted was classic propaganda. I've seen enough of these contract negotiations. I could write the script for you . Lord knows it never changes. I don't pull punches I call em like I see em.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

These requests already happen throughout the country. Its not an unreasonable request, theres no more paperwork for a 22.3 going feeder than a package car driver.

You are correct. But, UPS is holding on, obviously. I don't blame them. I rarely sleep with the enemy, but if you think about it from an unbiased standpoint, it's a pain the , period.

 

[705red]

I don't blame them. I rarely sleep with the enemy

So are you happy with the national contract? No one is asking anyone to sleep with anyone. How can it be a pain to allow 22.3 to go feeder over a package driver? Both now have to get a cdl, both now have to take the same drug test that they did not before, both have to go through feeder school. I dont understand how its a paperwork pain. Same paperwork.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

I don't blame them. I rarely sleep with the enemy

So are you happy with the national contract? No one is asking anyone to sleep with anyone. How can it be a pain to allow 22.3 to go feeder over a package driver? Both now have to get a cdl, both now have to take the same drug test that they did not before, both have to go through feeder school. I dont understand how its a paperwork pain. Same paperwork.

that's one small aspect of your disagreements, no? Plus, it does not cost UPS any time or money to train a 22.3 how to drive feeder? c'mon this is just scratching the surface too. In no way am I agreeing with this methodology, but I can see it both ways at least.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

that's one small aspect of your disagreements, no? Plus, it does not cost UPS any time or money to train a 22.3 how to drive feeder? c'mon this is just scratching the surface too. In no way am I agreeing with this methodology, but I can see it both ways at least.

hmm still waiting for a response. Wasn't expecting much, which is the trend on BC over the years, but anything?

 

[705red]

hmm still waiting for a response. Wasn't expecting much, which is the trend on BC over the years, but anything?

A response to what? You said that there was to much paperwork etc involved, i showed you that it was the same paperwork and training. You said you could see it both ways which i dont see a problem with a ftimer moving up or down into another ftime job.

My original point to all of this wss if we cant agree on simple changes as in these how can we settle on the economics in a handful of meetings?

Anytime you want to debate something spell it out in english and i will answer you as best i can.

 

[705red]

hmm still waiting for a response. Wasn't expecting much, which is the trend on BC over the years, but anything?

Was there something you wanted to debate? Or are you following your trend on bc over the years.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Was there something you wanted to debate? Or are you following your trend on bc over the years.

I already made my point, you fail to understand it and keep banging a paperwork drum. But that is just one small facet to what I was saying as you ignore the main point. My point was, that you said :

response to what? You said that there was to much paperwork etc involved, i showed you that it was the same paperwork and training. You said you could see it both ways which i dont see a problem with a ftimer moving up or down into another ftime job.

and if you want me to continue and be honest with you, I feel that is one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on here. How can you say a feeder changing feeder runs is the same training and know -how as a 22.3 going on a feeder run? A lateral move is the same as a promotion or a classification change? Why should I debate something so ludicrous and plain ignorant? Have a nice day.

 

[705red]

I already made my point, you fail to understand it and keep banging a paperwork drum. But that is just one small facet to what I was saying as you ignore the main point. My point was, that you said :



and if you want me to continue and be honest with you, I feel that is one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on here. How can you say a feeder changing feeder runs is the same training and know -how as a 22.3 going on a feeder run? A lateral move is the same as a promotion or a classification change? Why should I debate something so ludicrous and plain ignorant? Have a nice day.

No what i said is talking about promotions moving into feeder from 22.3 or package driver moving down into a 22.3 position. This is not on a day to day basis it is bidding into a new classification. Your buying into ups's idea that 22.3 is not a fulltime classification, well my friend it is, they work fulltime hours and recieve a fulltime pension.

So you feel that as a ftime employee you can only move up in pay? Why shouldnt you be allowed to move down if your willing to take the cut in pay? How many package drivers will be able to retire with 30 years lifting 150 lb packages out working 10 hours a day? Its very unlikely and you are not willing to address this until its too late.

But someone of your intelligence will not respond to comon sense thinking so maybe someone else can explain why these are ludicrous requests.

 

[705red]

I already made my point, you fail to understand it and keep banging a paperwork drum. But that is just one small facet to what I was saying as you ignore the main point. My point was, that you said :



and if you want me to continue and be honest with you, I feel that is one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on here. How can you say a feeder changing feeder runs is the same training and know -how as a 22.3 going on a feeder run? A lateral move is the same as a promotion or a classification change? Why should I debate something so ludicrous and plain ignorant? Have a nice day.

This was requested by the membership at contract proposal meetings with unamious support behind it.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

No what i said is talking about promotions moving into feeder from 22.3 or package driver moving down into a 22.3 position. This is not on a day to day basis it is bidding into a new classification. Your buying into ups's idea that 22.3 is not a fulltime classification, well my friend it is, they work fulltime hours and recieve a fulltime pension.

So you feel that as a ftime employee you can only move up in pay? Why shouldnt you be allowed to move down if your willing to take the cut in pay? How many package drivers will be able to retire with 30 years lifting 150 lb packages out working 10 hours a day? Its very unlikely and you are not willing to address this until its too late.

But someone of your intelligence will not respond to comon sense thinking so maybe someone else can explain why these are ludicrous requests.

I FT is FT and employees should be able to move up or down if they are qualified, we agree there. IF THEY ARE QUALIFIED

BUT on UPS's side of the coin, not yours and mine viewpoint - I can very easily see WHY they DO NOT want people moving UP and DOWN because of the costs it takes them paying trainers to train people and the loss of productivity inside, or other issues.

Unless I am just flat out wrong and it is not costly. I will admit to being at least partially wrong if you can prove that it does not cost UPS money for trainers and loss of production.

And (for example) a FT driver bids into a 22.3 clerical combo. He/she is typing 10 wpm - that person is NOT qualified for the job, therefore the bids have to be rebid if they were placed into the job. Or they have to rebid period - So it starts a process where these classifications become defined by what you are qualified to do and what you aren't.

This causes issues that I have seen first hand, and also been in the shoes of situations where managenent hides people in bids, fails to make moves, to make their numbers or keep productivity up. Then the grumbling begins by those that bid something else and they flat out aren't being moved.

By keeping 22.3 employees in their classification, feeders in feeder, it eliminates all of these types of issues.

I am on the fence about the whole thing personally, just my opinion.

I completely understand why all FT employees would want the flexibility to bid what they want and take a pay cut, if their body is breakign down, want relief from the road, want to go on the road for the money, etc etc. We see eye to eye on that much.

 

[705red]

I FT is FT and employees should be able to move up or down if they are qualified, we agree there. IF THEY ARE QUALIFIED

BUT on UPS's side of the coin, not yours and mine viewpoint - I can very easily see WHY they DO NOT want people moving UP and DOWN because of the costs it takes them paying trainers to train people and the loss of productivity inside, or other issues.

Unless I am just flat out wrong and it is not costly. I will admit to being at least partially wrong if you can prove that it does not cost UPS money for trainers and loss of production.

And (for example) a FT driver bids into a 22.3 clerical combo. He/she is typing 10 wpm - that person is NOT qualified for the job, therefore the bids have to be rebid if they were placed into the job. Or they have to rebid period - So it starts a process where these classifications become defined by what you are qualified to do and what you aren't.

This causes issues that I have seen first hand, and also been in the shoes of situations where managenent hides people in bids, fails to make moves, to make their numbers or keep productivity up. Then the grumbling begins by those that bid something else and they flat out aren't being moved.

By keeping 22.3 employees in their classification, feeders in feeder, it eliminates all of these types of issues.

I am on the fence about the whole thing personally, just my opinion.

I completely understand why all FT employees would want the flexibility to bid what they want and take a pay cut, if their body is breakign down, want relief from the road, want to go on the road for the money, etc etc. We see eye to eye on that much.

Thank you for sharing your view point, i now see how you are thinking, so let me explain how we were thinking.

I agrre with your typing reference, but at the same time the employee has to be given a fair trial period to make it to ups guideline standards.

Now to your loss of production, whats happens to a 28 year driver who can no longer do his/her dot job? Will they be as fast as an 18 year old? NO
But doesnt that 28 years of service account for something? How much production did he/she give the company over the last 28 years? Probably more than their share.

I believe if you are qualified to drive a package car and deliver and pick up packages, you probably are qualified to load or unload since it is part of your current job description.

Now if you are 22.3 with a standard license and a package car driver with a (at least here) c non cdl, you both have to be trained in feeder school for 1 week on your time in order to make it to your firat productive day, same training same expense. Now a package driver might have the upper hand in dealing with customers, but when it comes to drining a semi for the first time its a level playing field.

Its better to discuss issues so all involved can learn from it rather than just slamming each other.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Our one 22.3 preload/air driver bid the position from package, I thought that was allowed? Or are you seeking no limitations on FT bidding?