804 election

[prsman12059]

She has fired more people the anybody..My only hope is when the the new board gets in they get rid of her *. We lost arbitration`s I swore when I walked out of there that we had won them. She just seems to always side with the company. I think we won one big arbitration years ago with her so the union was reluctant to get rid of her. They were also afraid of * off the other arbitrators if they canned her. I`m telling you that women is bad news. I knew someone that went for arbitration before her and I told that person ahead of time your probably going to loose when he told me ******** was the arbitrator. And I was right, The company loves her.

 

[prsman12059]

Yes. ***. In a thirty-three page decision that is filled with faulty reasoning and pro-Company assumptions.

How could any union official select this person to be an arbitrator???

The Union's presentation of the case appeared to be botched. But I don't know for sure as I wasn't there. I'm only going by what I read in the Decision.

 

[prsman12059]

She has fired more people the anybody..My only hope is when the the new board gets in they get rid of hers. We lost arbitration`s I swore when I walked out of there that we had won them. She just seems to always side with the company. I think we won one big arbitration years ago with her so the union was reluctant to get rid of her. They were also afraid of angering the other arbitrators if they canned her. I`m telling you that women is bad news. I knew someone that went for arbitration before her and I told that person ahead of time your probably going to loose when he told me who the arbitrator. And I was right, The company loves her. I pray the new executive board gets rid of her she has it coming to her. She must own stock in UPS. Going in front of her is like going in front UPS management. Timmy please get rid of her for the sake of the membership we can`t afford to loose anymore union brothers and sisters to her warped decisions. She fired someone and the decision didn`t even take 30 days she gave her decision to fire this person I believe in 23 days. Ive never heard of a decision going less then 30 days and some go over that. She sided with the company and was probably afraid the person would comp them..

 

[prsman12059]

She has fired more people the anybody..My only hope is when the the new board gets in they get rid of her We lost arbitration`s I swore when I walked out of there that we had won them. She just seems to always side with the company. I think we won one big arbitration years ago with her so the union was reluctant to get rid of her. They were also afraid angering the other arbitrators if they remove her. I`m telling you that women is bad news. I knew someone that went for arbitration before her and I told that person ahead of time your probably going to loose when he told me she was the arbitrator. And I was right, The company loves her.

 

[island1fox]

Does it ever cross your brain ----that wheter it be hourly or management --most people "fire" themselves. Just because he or she is a union brother does not make the person innocent ---Please when can some people accept personal responsability. Even if you cannot be honest on this post --be honest with yourself --we all see it over and over the union forced to represent some --very few --but the same- few ALL the time . TO say that the arbitrator fired or hired anyone --is rather lame !!!
Not everyone is guilty --not everyone is innocent !!!

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Perhaps you should ask yourself if my opinion is any of your concern.

I see- you are free to weigh in on what everyone else posts, but you are never to be questioned. One minute you run down the union and then you defend it. I am merely making a point and of course you do not like it. Sorry. On a brighter note, Merry Christmas.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I see- you are free to weigh in on what everyone else posts, but you are never to be questioned. One minute you run down the union and then you defend it. I am merely making a point and of course you do not like it. Sorry. On a brighter note, Merry Christmas.

Feliz Navidad.

 

[JonFrum]

To 2 Units: You seem to be "Blaming the Victim" and suggesting that employees who are unjustly fired should just accept it, let the Company destroy their career, and let the Company enjoy the victory and the momentum that goes with it, rather than fight for their jobs and their principles.

I don't believe this kind of arbitration is precedent-setting because it is based on a particular set of details that apply in this particular case. The Arbitrator even said, "This Arbitrator has been a member of the Local 804/UPS panel for the past twenty years and has seen numerous discharges based on an employee's overall record."
- - - - -
To Cheryl and Tonyexpress: There is no need to censor the Arbitrator's name. The panel is part of the American Arbitration Association's Voluntary Labor Tribunal in the matter of Local 804 vs UPS. The decision is public as are the names of the Arbitrator and the fired individual and other people mentioned in the Decision. Teamster members, (and even management members) have a right to know this information which effects them and which they pay for. We also have a right to evaluate the operation of the arbitration system and the performance of the Union as it put on it's case. It's like knowing your Fire and Police Chiefs, and seeing if they are doing their jobs. The time to find out is now, before you need them.

 

[deleted9]

jon frum - i am not blaming anyone, you assume the person was innocent, obviously it was proven in arbitration that he was guilty that is why he does not work for UPS anymore. And there are a lot of behind the scene activity that if you are not directly involved, you only get bits and pieces. Most of the time the info that filters down is how bad big UPS is and the person who is being disciplined is an innocent victim. The innocent victims are usually given numerous opportunities to fix or correct the problems or concerns and if they do not then they face the consequences. What people sometimes do not understand is that there are consequences to actions. Just my opinion backed by years of experience.

 

[JonFrum]

jon frum - i am not blaming anyone, you assume the person was innocent, obviously it was proven in arbitration that he was guilty that is why he does not work for UPS anymore. And there are a lot of behind the scene activity that if you are not directly involved, you only get bits and pieces. Most of the time the info that filters down is how bad big UPS is and the person who is being disciplined is an innocent victim. The innocent victims are usually given numerous opportunities to fix or correct the problems or concerns and if they do not then they face the consequences. What people sometimes do not understand is that there are consequences to actions. Just my opinion backed by years of experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I assume you no longer work for UPS, you haven't read the 33-page Opinion & Award #13 300 02782-07 issued 12/30/2008, don't know the people involved, wern't present at the three days of hearings, and don't know the circumstances?

I'm not assuming the fired individual was innocent. He wasn't accused of any criminal wrongdoing. UPS fired him for not being as productive as they wanted him to be. Their theory is that if you can deliver at a certain rate under artificially created ideal conditions while being OJSed, then you should be able to maintain this level of performance under non-ideal circumstances all the other times.

I don't consider the driver's usual performance a dischargeable offense. It's just normalcy. If UPS wants ideal results, then UPS will have to ensure ideal conditions throught the driver's day, every day. The driver should not be responsible for all the variable circumstances that are beyond his control.

 

[CRASH501]

Does it ever cross your brain ----that wheter it be hourly or management --lvemost people "fire" themses. Just because he or she is a union brother does not make the person innocent ---Please when can some people accept personal responsability. Even if you cannot be honest on this post --be honest with yourself --we all see it over and over the union forced to represent some --very few --but the same- few ALL the time . TO say that the arbitrator fired or hired anyone --is rather lame !!!
Not everyone is guilty --not everyone is innocent !!!

.
VERY WELL SAID !!!
.
at one point the labor relations manager was in brush ave 3-4 times a week for various resons while in conversation with a steward he was asked .....who are you here to fire this time ? his answer no one PEOPLE FIRE THEMSELVES !!! .
.
NOW IT'S NO SECRET THIS MAN OUTRIGHT HATES ME , AND HAS WANTED MY JOB MORE THAN ONCE , " I HAVE YET TO FIRE MYSELF / GIVE HIM GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO FIRE ME " IN HIS WORDS HE WOULD NEVER WIN WITH THE ARBITRARY BOARD AND WASNT EVER GOING TO PAY ME TO SIT HOME.

 

[cheryl]

To Cheryl and Tonyexpress: There is no need to censor the Arbitrator's name. The panel is part of the American Arbitration Association's Voluntary Labor Tribunal in the matter of Local 804 vs UPS. The decision is public as are the names of the Arbitrator and the fired individual and other people mentioned in the Decision. Teamster members, (and even management members) have a right to know this information which effects them and which they pay for. We also have a right to evaluate the operation of the arbitration system and the performance of the Union as it put on it's case. It's like knowing your Fire and Police Chiefs, and seeing if they are doing their jobs. The time to find out is now, before you need them.

JonFrum, Thank you for your advice but I will have to remind you that posting full names violates our terms of service.

5.) You must respect the privacy of individuals. This means no posting of full names, phone numbers, addresses, Social Security numbers, or any other private information.

Are you aware that there was legal action filed against a teamster related website for defamatory posts made on their forum about teamsters or teamster officials from local 480 in TN? A copy of the document used to file the complaint is attached to this post.

I'm not interested in any legal problems... If you feel it's important to distribute more information about this topic here please feel free to upload the public documents associated with this case and discuss the issues but I have to insist that you not use full names in your posts, no matter what the topic is.

 

[deleted9]

jon frum in the 30 plus years i have worked for UPS i have never seen a day with ideal conditions, there is always something that delays a driver not due to their fault, broken elevator, 2 trips to a 5th floor walk up, traffic concerns, no place to park close, waiting for cod's, a lot of bulk, etc. But there are also things that happen every day to balance out those unplanned delays, 3 or 4 stops next to each other without a carry aid, numerous stops from a parked car position, customer meets the driver on route to pick up package or drop off a pick up, able to back into a loading dock without waiting, elevator on the first floor, etc. When a person is ridden by a management person and all of a sudden for the 3 days they are ridden, the driver does anywhere from 2 to 3 stops per hour more, which adds up to 18 to 27 stops more per day in a 9 hour on road day. Then as soon as the management person gets off the car the driver drops back 2 or 3 sporh, unfortunately the discipline process is what's next.

 

[JonFrum]

Do you believe in some Cosmic Force that balances out the driver's day? For every slow-down in the morning, there's an offsetting speed-up in the afternoon?

If a driver were traveling the speed limit, I believe various traffic situations might slow him down, but I don't believe any could speed him up, as he is already going the legal limit. This is just one example to illustrate that there is no Cosmic Force balancing things out.

If you have ever taken a course in statistics you know that three rides is not a valid sample, especially for a job that occurs outside where so many factors are beyond anyone's control. Every day is different, and that's especially true now with add/cuts, splits, and routes being cut. Even a valid OJS (if there is such a thing) would soon become invalid over time as the seasons change and the route changes.

You'll also note that I said the ideal conditions under the OJS ride were artificially created, not the usual day-to-day circumstances. If UPS wants those better numbers, they need to "massage the load" and make the other changes every day, just as they do on the OJS days.

 

[prsman12059]

Re-guardless of what happened at this arbitration. I believe in another local in upstate New York around 10 years ago the union won an arbitration on production. So my question is if that arbitration didn`t set presidents why should this one. I heard the driver kept really good records and proved that everyday is different the arbrator sided with the union. This arbitrator was wrong in her descion but thats the problem when you let a 3rd party decide on something she could never understand unless she got on the truck and delivered some of those bundles she is truly clueless. The company loves her they know when they go infront of her they have a good chance of winning. Time to remove her off the panel and I hope these guys do just that. I think they got her number.

 

[JonFrum]

I think they got her number.

Just don't post it.

 

[deleted9]

Do you believe in some Cosmic Force that balances out the driver's day? For every slow-down in the morning, there's an offsetting speed-up in the afternoon?

If a driver were traveling the speed limit, I believe various traffic situations might slow him down, but I don't believe any could speed him up, as he is already going the legal limit. This is just one example to illustrate that there is no Cosmic Force balancing things out.

If you have ever taken a course in statistics you know that three rides is not a valid sample, especially for a job that occurs outside where so many factors are beyond anyone's control. Every day is different, and that's especially true now with add/cuts, splits, and routes being cut. Even a valid OJS (if there is such a thing) would soon become invalid over time as the seasons change and the route changes.

You'll also note that I said the ideal conditions under the OJS ride were artificially created, not the usual day-to-day circumstances. If UPS wants those better numbers, they need to "massage the load" and make the other changes every day, just as they do on the OJS days.

Some people have no clue, they sing the same song day after day, they think they can beat the system, roll the dice and hope they win, sad way to make a living. My last post on this subject.

 

[local804]

We have inherited serious problems—weak contract enforcement, an enormous grievance backlog, and mismanaged benefit funds. During the lame duck period, outgoing Local 804 officials removed and erased hard drives and destroyed computer files needed to represent the membership. We will meet these challenges and move forward.
Look for a full report on these and other issues in a membership bulletin soon. This is your union and you will know where Local 804 stands and where we are headed.

posted on the website

 

[CRASH501]

We have inherited serious problems—weak contract enforcement, an enormous grievance backlog, and mismanaged benefit funds. During the lame duck period, outgoing Local 804 officials removed and erased hard drives and destroyed computer files needed to represent the membership. We will meet these challenges and move forward.
Look for a full report on these and other issues in a membership bulletin soon. This is your union and you will know where Local 804 stands and where we are headed.

posted on the website

.
.
I do not doubt what you say at any other time , but i find it hard to believe that ........outgoing Local 804 officials removed and erased hard drives and destroyed computer files needed to represent the membership.
.
im pretty sure there would be some type of legal issues raised there. maybe just maybe said files are hidden under maybe a password protected section of the hard drives or something to that effect. i understand maybe there might be a bitter past union official or so but to outright screw the local the worked so hard to represent for X amount of years....sorry.
.
.
just my 2 cents

 

[local804]

.
.
I do not doubt what you say at any other time , but i find it hard to believe that ........outgoing Local 804 officials removed and erased hard drives and destroyed computer files needed to represent the membership.
.
im pretty sure there would be some type of legal issues raised there. maybe just maybe said files are hidden under maybe a password protected section of the hard drives or something to that effect. i understand maybe there might be a bitter past union official or so but to outright screw the local the worked so hard to represent for X amount of years....sorry.
.
.
just my 2 cents

Its not out of my mouth, it is directly from the president of Local 804. I am sure legal issues will follow.
http://www.teamsterslocal804.org/