And here...we...go. Amazon launches UPS/FedEx style package cars

[rod]

Yeah.DHL did.

DHL didn’t put 1/1000 the effort into it as Amazon has.

 

[Boywondr]

DHL didn’t put 1/1000 the effort into it as Amazon has.

There's no way you can qualify that assertion. DHL invested billions in assets when they bought Airborne and failed for the same reason Amazon may. DHL already owned and brokered fleets of jets that Amazon doesn't even scratch. Amazon's footprint is in the USA whereas DHL's is and was much larger from the start.

So let's see what happens with the great training (4 days by their own admission) their drivers receive coupled with their accident history and pressure to do the impossible in the future. Obviously their motto is to saturate the playing field as quickly as they can but in the long run if quantity trumps quality and their workforce gets the unbridled pressure that comes with that environment, without equal compensation, only time will tell. By what I've read, their contractor's safety track record is pretty horrific.

If the Spartans had not been sold out by their own people they would have withstood their last onslaught because with the right plan quality and continually honing skills that are proven over multiple decades will solidify UPS's footprint. Common sense must prevail in upcoming contracts because like the Spartans, the greed of a few (that vote) will sell out the bright future of many. That's what will hurt ups more than anything imo.

 

[quad decade guy]

There's no way you can qualify that assertion. DHL invested billions in assets when they bought Airborne and failed for the same reason Amazon may. DHL already owned and brokered fleets of jets that Amazon doesn't even scratch. Amazon's footprint is in the USA whereas DHL's is and was much larger from the start.View attachment 302038View attachment 302040
So let's see what happens with the great training (4 days by their own admission) their drivers receive coupled with their accident history and pressure to do the impossible in the future. Obviously their motto is to saturate the playing field as quickly as they can but in the long run if quantity trumps quality and their workforce gets the unbridled pressure that comes with that environment, without equal compensation, only time will tell. By what I've read, their contractor's safety track record is pretty horrific.

If the Spartans had not been sold out by their own people they would have withstood their last onslaught because with the right plan quality and continually honing skills that are proven over multiple decades will solidify UPS's footprint. Common sense must prevail in upcoming contracts because like the Spartans, the greed of a few (that vote) will sell out the bright future of many. That's what will hurt ups more than anything imo.

What's this 4 day training thing? I had 3 maybe (pkg) (2 feeder). And safety? That will come later after the complete take over.

Now UPS? Can a unionized, high wage paying company(in these modern times) survive and thrive? Most haven't(see LTL freight).

Even though I will depend 100% on my pension and SSI, I expect for both to be cut or eliminated in my lifetime.

 

[Wally]

UPS need a year round contract. No contract, no peak. Amazon will always have a labor problem with the low wage model they are using.

 

[Boywondr]

What's this 4 day training thing? I had 3 maybe (pkg) (2 feeder). And safety? That will come later after the complete take over.

Now UPS? Can a unionized, high wage paying company(in these modern times) survive and thrive? Most haven't(see LTL freight).

Even though I will depend 100% on my pension and SSI, I expect for both to be cut or eliminated in my lifetime.

I had two days training and not four decades ago. But in the last twenty years the stop counts on these routes have increased 20-40% with the driver being pressured to complete the work in less time.

The real issue imo will be the economy. Will shippers stay with us if their bottom line isn't as solid and the "just in time" inventory mentality started in the 90's will also play a factor as pertaining to who will be able to deliver the volume on time. It's definitely going to be a show down and pressure from the top down will test the workforce and it'll be detrimental to send a bunch of hacked off drivers into the public every day.

From what I've seen over the multiple decades I've driven full time the customer/driver relationship has been key to retaining and gaining back our customer's loyalty and trust. A good AE is also part of the glue that holds this together and there are good people in BD. But even tho Amazon will not dissapate like DHL did we still have the best completion percentage in regards to delivery on the face of this planet and that strength plus strong driver/AE/customer relationships will give us the best chance to stay in the game for years to come.
Just my opinion.

And for what it's worth I know many nonunion drivers making really good money and have good benefits. Finding people to drive trucks today is more of a struggle than ever.

 

[PACNW]

I agree that UPS is it's own worst enemy. In their attempt you use technology to streamline the business, what they have really done is taken the decision making away from the people that are running the operations. The idea that someone in an ivory tower making one size fits all decisions for all operations is ridiculously short sighted. Managers and supervisors have no authority to adapt and problem solve. The nerds in the ivory tower come up with operating plans that make them look like geniuses on paper and save the company money, while conveniently leaving out variables that don't support their plan.

I watch the company throw away piles of money everyday on bad plans. The saying that comes to mind is, stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. All of the management people know it, their hands are tied. There may be some really good, talented management folks around us with great ideas and skills, but we will never know. They are forced to be mindless drones that are beaten up for critical thinking or independent thought.

Still, don't know if Amazon is a big enough threat to take on the Big Brown Machine in a significant way.

 

[PASinterference]

I agree that UPS is it's own worst enemy. In their attempt you use technology to streamline the business, what they have really done is taken the decision making away from the people that are running the operations. The idea that someone in an ivory tower making one size fits all decisions for all operations is ridiculously short sighted. Managers and supervisors have no authority to adapt and problem solve. The nerds in the ivory tower come up with operating plans that make them look like geniuses on paper and save the company money, while conveniently leaving out variables that don't support their plan.

I watch the company throw away piles of money everyday on bad plans. The saying that comes to mind is, stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. All of the management people know it, their hands are tied. There may be some really good, talented management folks around us with great ideas and skills, but we will never know. They are forced to be mindless drones that are beaten up for critical thinking or independent thought.

Still, don't know if Amazon is a big enough threat to take on the Big Brown Machine in a significant way.

What do you think a solution would be? I agree with you 100%. I've always said that UPS makes alot of money, but would make a hell of alot more money if they would listen sometimes.

 

[PACNW]

What do you think a solution would be? I agree with you 100%. I've always said that UPS makes alot of money, but would make a hell of alot more money if they would listen sometimes.

I was a part time sup back in the 90s before we went public. I was just a kid, but back then I was taught to treat my area of responsibility like it was my own business. Be efficient, treat people right, etc. I was given goals and standards, but I was also given the freedom to decide how to run my little part of the business. I worked with a lot of smart people who went on to be career management people. I was shown early plans of what, at the time were called "Hub of the Future" and "Center of the Future". That solidified I would not go into full-time management. The idea that all decisions would be made from a central location in a division or district and carried out by local management, reducing the number of operations management by more than half. It never got fully realized, but the central decision making part and consolidation of regions, districts, and centers stuck.

I think they should give operations decisions back to the operators to adjust and plan in real time with tangible information.

An example we have all seen: Cut 2 preloaders because Preload PPH is the flavor of the month and we must hit it at all costs. So we save $150 on 2 preloaders, while 45 drivers sit on the clock for a half hour at their overtime rate waiting to leave the building at a cost of well over $1000. It's really inexcusable, but that is the type crap these idiots do everyday and the operations people are powerless to push back, even if they can make the case that it is a bad business decision.

When I get together with my career management friends, it's obvious to both me and them that I made the right choice to be a driver. Cause for me, none of that crap matters when I hit the road. Just me and a bunch a packages and I get compensated for every minute I give to this company.

 

[CtrlAltDel]

I've posted this before (so don't some of you get your panties in a wad) but WAY back when I first started in 1971 there was a 2 page story in a magazine called US Businesses News or Time or News Week or one of those types of rags called "What Makes Brown Run? It was basically a glowing report about how UPS was such a well oiled machine and what a great workforce they had. The whole article was nothing but GOOD news about UPS. The last paragraph said---The only way UPS could possibly fail was through BAD management----it looks like whoever wrote that article had a crystal ball.

United States Postal Service has decades of mismanagement. Hence why it's at a financial state of ruin it is in.

Yesterday for example, upper management didn't care we were short-staffed (six open routes) and we had a lot of political mail (3 bundles and they were backwards). They wanted us all pulled down and ready to go at 9AM, carrying whatever bundles of magazines on the side as a 'third' tub. Of course, being rebels we didn't pull down and leave til 10am. And they wanted us to be done by 5:30PM. Forget COVID19 and the 108 degree high or the six routes we have to cover. USPS management only care about 'numbers' and not service quality. Safety is compromise when we are force to work faster just to cover up their mismanagement and short staff.

USPS management should be a case study for every businesses especially in logistics. Management pushing their numbers down our throats does not generate revenue. The approach should be creating better service to attract more business.

 

[AwashBwashCwash]

jeff scum Bezos would hang himself before he would pay his workforce a living wage.

They make more than preload.

 

[AnonPreLoader]

They make more than preload.

I cant believe how little preload is paid.
Im glad im not doing it for the money, because i wouldnt.

 

[Wally]

I was a part time sup back in the 90s before we went public. I was just a kid, but back then I was taught to treat my area of responsibility like it was my own business. Be efficient, treat people right, etc. I was given goals and standards, but I was also given the freedom to decide how to run my little part of the business. I worked with a lot of smart people who went on to be career management people. I was shown early plans of what, at the time were called "Hub of the Future" and "Center of the Future". That solidified I would not go into full-time management. The idea that all decisions would be made from a central location in a division or district and carried out by local management, reducing the number of operations management by more than half. It never got fully realized, but the central decision making part and consolidation of regions, districts, and centers stuck.

I think they should give operations decisions back to the operators to adjust and plan in real time with tangible information.

An example we have all seen: Cut 2 preloaders because Preload PPH is the flavor of the month and we must hit it at all costs. So we save $150 on 2 preloaders, while 45 drivers sit on the clock for a half hour at their overtime rate waiting to leave the building at a cost of well over $1000. It's really inexcusable, but that is the type crap these idiots do everyday and the operations people are powerless to push back, even if they can make the case that it is a bad business decision.

When I get together with my career management friends, it's obvious to both me and them that I made the right choice to be a driver. Cause for me, none of that crap matters when I hit the road. Just me and a bunch a packages and I get compensated for every minute I give to this company.

That $1000 is nothing when you add in all the extras like miles, extended paid day, 9-5 bonus payouts, later pickup processing times, etc.

 

[Boywondr]

They make more than preload.

Do they get full no cost benefits, paid (or any) holidays, paid vacations, or pension?

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Do they get full no cost benefits, paid (or any) holidays, paid vacations, or pension?

Just like our contract. Everyone looks at the hourly rate and raises but do not look at the other things and that's what's really important

 

[AwashBwashCwash]

Do they get full no cost benefits paid (or any) holidays, paid vacations, or pension?

They get insurance and paid time off. Their starting rate is higher than ours and they also were getting hazard pay on top of it, making $3 more an hour than preload.
Part-time pension is always touted here like some kind of amazing perk when it's convenient but the reality is that it's completely irrelevant to 90% of preloaders at UPS, who will never see a dime of it. What do you think the percentage of part-timers is who actually make it to 5 years? Most of you guys goof on it in other threads and even admit that it'll be first on the chopping block. But when it's time to talk about what Amazon is doing you suddenly bring it up like it's some golden goose for part-timers.
I don't see where this idea comes from that UPS completely outclasses Amazon in part-time compensation.

 

[Boywondr]

They get insurance and paid time off. Their starting rate is higher than ours and they also were getting hazard pay on top of it, making $3 more an hour than preload.
Part-time pension is always touted here like some kind of amazing perk when it's convenient but the reality is that it's completely irrelevant to 90% of preloaders at UPS, who will never see a dime of it. What do you think the percentage of part-timers is who actually make it to 5 years? Most of you guys goof on it in other threads and even admit that it'll be first on the chopping block. But when it's time to talk about what Amazon is doing you suddenly bring it up like it's some golden goose for part-timers.
I don't see where this idea comes from that UPS completely outclasses Amazon in part-time compensation.

First, I'm not "you guys" so chill on the fluff. Second, the Amazon center that opened within an hour of my house started at $15/he for 8 hr days. That's $3 more? Not until the pandemic did I hear of any significant increase due to the need to fill their bloated volume due to the pandemic.

What kind of quality insurance do they have compared to TeamCare? I'm sure you can come up with some unsubstantiated response for us.

So you assert some vague comparison and try to demean the rebuttal when apples to apples you can't. Healthcare is a $450/week boost for a part time upser after nine months and if the part time employee works over 5 hours they get time and one-half so their same eight hour starting wage is $16.63/hr then add the free medical for a family plan the total compensation is over $39.00/hr WITHOUT the pension bump. When you whine about part timers not staying for five years to be vested well I guess they finished college and moved on as they planned.. Did you forget the (up to) $250 per week bonus the company has paid part timers for coming to work every day on time? I'm sure you did.

Check any of my posts and please screen shot anything I said to run down or disparage any part time Teamster. You won't find any so stick to the facts and post reality because your post looks like Swiss cheese.

 

[I Am Jacks Damaged Box]

Did you forget the (up to) $250 per week bonus the company has paid part timers for coming to work every day on time?

 

[Boywondr]

View attachment 302146

Ok. Thank you.

 

[I Am Jacks Damaged Box]

Ok. Thank you.

Ok. You're welcome.

 

[clean hairy]

I have to agree with you. UPS seems to be its own worst enemy.

Hiring kids fresh out of high school as management with no idea what they are doing might be a part of the problem.