apwa

[scratch]

wkmac,

Yes I do remember when we had Local 928, which was only UPS employees. I still have a 928 windshield shade I hang on my basement wall along with my two Picket signs I walked the line with. A couple of years ago, I went down to the 728 hall and withdrew from DRIVE in person, partly because I'm so fed up with the Central States issue. I was told by the staff there that "UPS Drivers think they are special" and that "we owe it to everyone that went before us to take the pension cuts". This was out of the mouth of a woman who was going to benefit from two Central States Pensions (she and her husband worked for Yellow Freight) plus whatever perks the Local employees will get.

I'm so glad we booted that administration out of office. Hoffa forced us to do the election over again when his Slate lost, even though they ran it. We were supposed to "vote again until we got it right", but his folks lost again. The current "Reform" President Randy Brown used to work in my Center a long time ago, and he is a good guy. He ran on a Pension Reform Platform, but I don't see how he can do anything to fix it.

 

[brett636]

Brett I have never heard of an internet scam that holds meetings nationwide, have YOU been to one of their meetings?

Its whatever they need to do to appear legitimate.

 

[brett636]

Brett.....APWA was in Miami yesterday, and I believe Orlando today. I believe this falls outside the realm of Mr Gores infamous internet.

Sounds like the APWA is already starting to reap the benefits of their work. Taking vacations to Miami and Orlando while calling them "meetings".

 

[30andout]

Its whatever they need to do to appear legitimate.

Brett you make wise comments, but you didn't answer, have you been to a APWA meeting to back up your comments???????1

 

[brett636]

Brett you make wise comments, but you didn't answer, have you been to a APWA meeting to back up your comments???????1

I don't even go to my own union meetings. Why would I go to a "meeting" for a psuedo-union that I trust even less?

 

[nospinzone]

I don't even go to my own union meetings. Why would I go to a "meeting" for a psuedo-union that I trust even less?

It must be more comfortable to sit on your loins and offer smart comments than to take action and offer solutions to our problem, Brett.

“There are risks and costs to a program of action, but they are far less than the long-range risks and costs of comfortable inaction”
John Fitzgerald Kennedy

“I never worry about action, but only about inaction”
Winston Churchill

“Inaction breeds doubt and fear. Action breeds confidence and courage. If you want to conquer fear, do not sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
Dale Carnegie


I offer another selling point on the benefit of certifying the APWA: Total and absolute access to the financial books without having to spend a lifetime in federal court trying to sue for access. In 2004, membership found it necessary to sue the Central States fund to obtain access to the finances of the fund. Access to the books was obtained only after this litigation. Total disclosure of finances allows for membership to be aware of where their money is going and whether it is being managed properly. This applies to pension managment as well general operating finances. A UPS-only union could provide speedy oversight and review of suspected unethical actions--however this is possible only with total transparency and total disclosure of finances.

Nospin

 

[brett636]

It must be more comfortable to sit on your loins and offer smart comments than to take action and offer solutions to our problem, Brett.

My smart comments still have more substance than the APWA.

 

[ups79]

nospin:are you related to "sawman" or "feeder"?

 

[wkmac]

nospin:are you related to "sawman" or "feeder"?

You mean he's not sawman or feeder? Well I'll be damn! Sure had me fooled.

 

[nospinzone]

nospin:are you related to "sawman" or "feeder"?

I dont think i know either of those people. I remember that sawman used to post on here rather regularly about a year ago. But havent seen him on here for a long while now.

 

[wkmac]

Also I have to agree with nospin on what he said to Brett about his comments of not going to the meetings. But I'll throw myself under the bus with Brett as I'm guilty of the same thing.

Problem is, the IBT has lowered itself IMO of defending the lowest standard and playing to it rather that trying to raise all to the highest of standards. And I'm in no way alone in my thinking on this.

Let's just say it like it is, at $8 an hour starting you're not getting people in many case with the highest of ethics or standards and I see the union defending and tolerating actions by it's membership or would be potential members in the workplace that years ago would never have been allowed. I won't go into specifics of what I know in a public forum but I've seen things that quite frankly make me sick. The more and more I see the more I'm ashamed of what has become of this union but moreso the disrespect we're showing to the hard working Teamsters especially UPS Teamsters who have gone before us.

Just for the record UPS as the company is not by any means without sin here but we're discussing the union not the company at this time.

 

[nospinzone]

Mac...all your points are valid ones and partly explain the situation we currently find ourselves in. Many many many moons ago i recall my basketball coach sayin that as a team we were only as strong as our weakest link. This holds true today, and the situation is only worsened by the current leadership who is failing to take the initiative and LEAD the membership by example in its ethics and mode of operations.

How does the APWA plan to change the standard of leadership? Take notice of the following highlights from their page A NEW LOOK

Lifetime dismissal for any official convicted of a felony. Foul up and your done. Period.

Lifetime dismissal for any official considered by 2/3rds of the Board of Directors to have engaged in any activity detrimental to the reputation of the APWA. If it looked like you fouled up and brought into question the integrity of the APWA...youre done. Period.

Every official in the APWA is subject to direct elections by the membership. If the general membership thinks you fouled up....youre out of office.

Just a few of the checks and balances that the APWA has written into its charter to provide oversight for the elected officials.

I also agree that UPS has not been without blame. All the more reason to raise our standard of operation so as to be as strong as possible from the top down.

nospin

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Spinzone,

Maybe you could elaborate on the fact that after you get your decert vote, the employees will be without a contract and any representation for a year..... And then how it can take up to another year to get a new contract. No contract for 2 years.... Please explain how UPS is going to be so generous in paying the employees wages and benefits that they currently enjoy while wating for your "team of experts" to negotiate a better contract for them.

Inquiring minds want to know.....



-Bug-

 

[wily_old_vet]

NoSpin-Here's a question from a retiree. If APWA does take over from the Teamsters what happens to the pensions of the thousands of retirees from UPS? Without UPS paying into the plans they would be unable to pay the benefits that were earned. APWA would not be able to pay these pensions. What is the APWA solution to this.

 

[ups79]

wily: I might be confused, but I believe that UPS paid into the plan for you while you were working. Once you retired UPS no longer pays into the plan for you. The benefits you receive are suppose to already be in the plan. Its like buying an annuity. You pay for it during the period of time that you work. When you retire and want to collect on it, you determine how long on the average a male of your age lives, and thus determines how much to draw out for how many years.
I might be confused if so perhaps you or someone else can clear this up for me.

 

[trickpony1]

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
I seriously doubt there is an account somewhere marked as "wily's money".
I think it all goes into one big pot. The only problem is there are people dipping out of that pot that may have contributed little, if any now, to the pot.
Simply math would suggest that, at some point, Wily or any one else's share of the pot may not be there.
This is what could, and probably is happening when you've got a third party controlling the purse strings.
I would like to see the company offer a sweetheart deal in july 08' to those of us who are near retirement, think of the money they would save but then I refer to the first statement of my post, "if wishes were horses.....".

 

[30andout]

Spinzone,

Maybe you could elaborate on the fact that after you get your decert vote, the employees will be without a contract and any representation for a year..... And then how it can take up to another year to get a new contract. No contract for 2 years.... Please explain how UPS is going to be so generous in paying the employees wages and benefits that they currently enjoy while wating for your "team of experts" to negotiate a better contract for them.

Inquiring minds want to know.....



-Bug-

bigunion sounds like you work for the teamsters not UPS

 

[wily_old_vet]

UPS79-And isn't that the way Social Security is supposed to work? I hope and pray you are right but I tend to think like Trick on this. Maybe I should ask the plan to give me MY money in a lump sum and I'll invest it my way. Right.

 

[brett636]

wily: I might be confused, but I believe that UPS paid into the plan for you while you were working. Once you retired UPS no longer pays into the plan for you. The benefits you receive are suppose to already be in the plan. Its like buying an annuity. You pay for it during the period of time that you work. When you retire and want to collect on it, you determine how long on the average a male of your age lives, and thus determines how much to draw out for how many years.
I might be confused if so perhaps you or someone else can clear this up for me.

The money paid into the pension plan for Wiley while he was working was used to pay the retirees at that time. Just as the money paid into the part-time pension plan for me is being used to pay current retirees. If I were to retire with this company my pension money would come from the employees working during that time. The money is not held for you until retirement as there wouldn't be enough money then to pay those who are currently retired. If UPS were to quit paying into some of these plans it could cause the plans to go bankrupt and leave current retirees without that monthly pension. Looks like our little APWA friends don't give a rats ass about UPS retirees like Wiley, and would screw them anyway.

 

[30andout]

Brett you are so knowledgeaBULL, where does all the money go that was earned off of my money they are holding.