Atomic

[Lead Belly]

Guess that really got to ya lol... There is no defending your party's anti-American actions as you clearly demonstrate.

The only thing that got to me is how angry you are. I feel bad for you. A little piece of info about me. Back in 2010 I had a life altering thing happen to be. It was a very bad situation. One that changes a person. When it was over I really have up watching the news or reading about it altogether. I only follow sports now and got very heavily into my music. I vote every time there is voting. My wife would wip my ass if I say I'm not voting. So happy wife almost a happy life. I vote for democrats and look for Irish sounding names. This is just what I do. My grandfather Bernie who's the best man I've ever knew always told me to vote for Irish. So out of respect for him I always keep it in mind. Thinking about the man just brought tears to my eyes. I hope you have a good day man. God bless you in whatever you do.

 

[Ron Carey lives on]

Atomic's typical trick, starts losing the debate on rtw, switches to hate for democrats

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[Atomic_Smurf]

The only thing that got to me is how angry you are. I feel bad for you. A little piece of info about me. Back in 2010 I had a life altering thing happen to be. It was a very bad situation. One that changes a person. When it was over I really have up watching the news or reading about it altogether. I only follow sports now and got very heavily into my music. I vote every time there is voting. My wife would wip my ass if I say I'm not voting. So happy wife almost a happy life. I vote for democrats and look for Irish sounding names. This is just what I do. My grandfather Bernie who's the best man I've ever knew always told me to vote for Irish. So out of respect for him I always keep it in mind. Thinking about the man just brought tears to my eyes. I hope you have a good day man. God bless you in whatever you do.

Thanks for the blessing. This group is about union issues, not baseball. I won't pretend to understand baseball & maybe you should stop pretending to understand politics. Voting is every informed Americans civic duty. Notice I said informed. Unfortunately for our country there has been a majority of people voting in our presidential elections using a thought process similar to yours but for many different reasons be it for free stuff, skin color, sex appeal or whatever. Oh & I think you have confused posters here. The only angry folks calling names & spewing hate & intolerance for other ideas here are your fellow Democrats pals RC & standtall. Might want to send a blessing their way as well.

 

[Lead Belly]

Thanks for the blessing. This group is about union issues, not baseball. I won't pretend to understand baseball & maybe you should stop pretending to understand politics. Voting is every informed Americans civic duty. Notice I said informed. Unfortunately for our country there has been a majority of people voting in our presidential elections using a thought process similar to yours but for many different reasons be it for free stuff, skin color, sex appeal or whatever. Oh & I think you have confused posters here. The only angry folks calling names & spewing hate & intolerance for other ideas here are your fellow Democrats pals RC & standtall. Might want to send a blessing their way as well.

Don't forget to tak breaks and hang with the fam for a while to why you are watching Fox News.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Atomic's typical trick, starts losing the debate on rtw, switches to hate for democrats

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Maybe you'd like to defend the lefts treatment of our allies as they make excuses for terrorists?

 

[standtall]

Maybe you'd like to defend the lefts treatment of our allies as they make excuses for terrorists?

Atomic's typical trick, starts losing the debate on rtw, switches to hate for democrats

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RC, you couldn't be more correct about his behavior. Run out of lies, start bashing a political party.

 

[standtall]

Thanks for the blessing. This group is about union issues, not baseball. I won't pretend to understand baseball & maybe you should stop pretending to understand politics. Voting is every informed Americans civic duty. Notice I said informed. Unfortunately for our country there has been a majority of people voting in our presidential elections using a thought process similar to yours but for many different reasons be it for free stuff, skin color, sex appeal or whatever. Oh & I think you have confused posters here. The only angry folks calling names & spewing hate & intolerance for other ideas here are your fellow Democrats pals RC & standtall. Might want to send a blessing their way as well.

Come on smurf, I hate absolutely no one. There's more than enough of that in the world, I don't have to add to it. As far as intolerance, that is funny. Your very confused on that issue. I can disagree all day with you and never lose my tolerance for your views. I actually respect a anothers strong opinions. The disrespect and intolerance you feel for me is one sided. Look inward my man.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

RC, you couldn't be more correct about his behavior. Run out of lies, start bashing a political party.

Come on smurf, I hate absolutely no one. There's more than enough of that in the world, I don't have to add to it. As far as intolerance, that is funny. Your very confused on that issue. I can disagree all day with you and never lose my tolerance for your views. I actually respect a anothers strong opinions. The disrespect and intolerance you feel for me is one sided. Look inward my man.

Since you are new to Brown Cafe & this RTW debate I'd like to present you with the same challenge that has puzzled, frustrated & confused every other RTW alarmist here before you. Give us an example of any working class American that has lost so much is a dime in pay due to a RTW law being passed in their state. On the flip side I can point to millions that have lost hours, pay & reduced healthcare benefits due to the ACA. I'll wait for your example or rather, your excuse as to why you can't come up with one.

 

[standtall]

W

Since you are new to Brown Cafe & this RTW debate I'd like to present you with the same challenge that has puzzled, frustrated & confused every other RTW alarmist here before you. Give us an example of any working class American that has lost so much is a dime in pay due to a RTW law being passed in their state. On the flip side I can point to millions that have lost hours, pay & reduced healthcare benefits due to the ACA. I'll wait for your example or rather, your excuse as to why you can't come up with one.

The great state of Iowa. J.I. Case and John Deere. Since RTW they have lost all of the employees at J.I.Case through weaken union participation which resulted in outrageous company demand at contract negotiations. A strike was unavoidable because of these demands. The scab RTW employees crossed the line. After operating for a length if time with few employees the company closed the quad cities plants. A direct result of a weakened union brought about by your coveted RTW. John Deere, since RTW, overall union participation in all 5 quad cities and Waterloo plants has decreased unionization by 1/3. The result has been weakened contracts due to less membership which has brought lower pay and lessened benefits. These are real life facts that can't be denied, I've lived them. You talk from speculation, I speak from experience and family suffering due to your precious RTW legislation. Bullish#@ someone else, I've been there and it sucks!

 

[brownmonster]

Since you are new to Brown Cafe & this RTW debate I'd like to present you with the same challenge that has puzzled, frustrated & confused every other RTW alarmist here before you. Give us an example of any working class American that has lost so much is a dime in pay due to a RTW law being passed in their state. On the flip side I can point to millions that have lost hours, pay & reduced healthcare benefits due to the ACA. I'll wait for your example or rather, your excuse as to why you can't come up with one.

Why does right to work need to exist? Union shop. Fine. Pay the dues. Don't like it. See ya. It's not like the dues will break you.

 

[brownmonster]

Since you are new to Brown Cafe & this RTW debate I'd like to present you with the same challenge that has puzzled, frustrated & confused every other RTW alarmist here before you. Give us an example of any working class American that has lost so much is a dime in pay due to a RTW law being passed in their state. On the flip side I can point to millions that have lost hours, pay & reduced healthcare benefits due to the ACA. I'll wait for your example or rather, your excuse as to why you can't come up with one.

Why does right to work need to exist? Union shop. Fine. Pay the dues. Don't like it. See ya. It's not like the dues will break you.

 

[standtall]

W

The great state of Iowa. J.I. Case and John Deere. Since RTW they have lost all of the employees at J.I.Case through weaken union participation which resulted in outrageous company demand at contract negotiations. A strike was unavoidable because of these demands. The scab RTW employees crossed the line. After operating for a length if time with few employees the company closed the quad cities plants. A direct result of a weakened union brought about by your coveted RTW. John Deere, since RTW, overall union participation in all 5 quad cities and Waterloo plants has decreased by 1/3. The result has been weakened contracts due to less membership which has brought lower pay and lessened benefits. These are real life facts that can't be denied, I've lived them. You talk from speculation, I speak from experience and family suffering due to your precious RTW legislation. Bullish#@ someone else, I've been there and it sucks!

 

[standtall]

Why does right to work need to exist? Union shop. Fine. Pay the dues. Don't like it. See ya. It's not like the dues will break you.

Seems like a simple concept right? How about, not paying dues= pay your own pension contributions, pay your own insurance premiums, work for straight time all hours worked, receive no vacation time, no sick or personal days, no grievance procedure, pay for your own uniforms, NO SENIORITY. There should be no free rides, no free loaders, if you don't want to pay dues, work for scab pay and benefits. This is only a partial list of the MANY contractually negotiated workers rights and benefits, not to mention industry leading pay, that you would not have access to if not for the tireless efforts of hard working men and women through collective bargaining, yet smurf and his like minded friends seek to undermine all of those efforts with the proven union destroying results of RTW legislation. What a great guy!

 

[Ron Carey lives on]

Atomic has to defend RTW, because his favorite politicians are pushing. I denounce RTW because it comes after my livelihood. I have enough integrity to call out Dems on Keystone pipeline and certain aspects of the ACA, and coal. You see Smurf, I am a union worker, thats how I support my family, its not fox news, the koch brothers, cpac, or anybody else that wants to shrink the middle class

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[Atomic_Smurf]

W

The great state of Iowa. J.I. Case and John Deere. Since RTW they have lost all of the employees at J.I.Case through weaken union participation which resulted in outrageous company demand at contract negotiations. A strike was unavoidable because of these demands. The scab RTW employees crossed the line. After operating for a length if time with few employees the company closed the quad cities plants. A direct result of a weakened union brought about by your coveted RTW. John Deere, since RTW, overall union participation in all 5 quad cities and Waterloo plants has decreased unionization by 1/3. The result has been weakened contracts due to less membership which has brought lower pay and lessened benefits. These are real life facts that can't be denied, I've lived them. You talk from speculation, I speak from experience and family suffering due to your precious RTW legislation. Bullish#@ someone else, I've been there and it sucks!

RTW was passed in Iowa in 1947. You can't attach RTW to Case's or John Deere's weak contracts any more than you can blame RTW our most recent concessionary contract at UPS. "Weak union participation" is brought about by weak union representation.

 

[upschuck]

On the flip side I can point to millions that have lost hours, pay & reduced healthcare benefits due to the ACA. I'll wait for your example or rather, your excuse as to why you can't come up with one.

What does that have to do with RTW? Nothing.

Give us an example of any working class American that has lost so much is a dime in pay due to a RTW law being passed in their state.

I'll bite again, even though you will deny it applies. How about all the workers that don't get the full attention of their "free" representation at grievance, panel hearings? Probably lost a lot of money, and maybe jobs because of the union not fighting as hard for them. Federal law requires such. Why do you think that companies fight so hard, and spend money lobbying for RTW legislation, just so everything stays the same? Naïve.

Again, why should you get for free what the honest worker has to pay for? Wages? benefits? Vacations? I'd be ok with it if they would also get benefit package that non union workers would get, but law says otherwise. I bet they'd be willing to pay the dues if they were forced to take a $7/hr pay cut, HC cut, pension cut, etc, if not.

 

[standtall]

RTW was passed in Iowa in 1947. You can't attach RTW to Case's or John Deere's weak contracts any more than you can blame RTW our most recent concessionary contract at UPS. "Weak union participation" is brought about by weak union representation.

Weakened union participation is inevitable with RTW. That is the entire design. Created by big corporations and there deep pockets to destroy unionization. It's simple. It's common sense, it's common knowledge, it's factual. And thanks for pointing out the longevity of RTW in Iowa, I WAS going to leave this FACT out of the entire response but since you brought it up, Iowa has seen a massive overall decline in union membership that is directly tied to it's decades old RTW legislation. Thanks you for making my point even stronger, your a true gentleman

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Weakened union participation is inevitable with RTW. That is the entire design. Created by big corporations and there deep pockets to destroy unionization. It's simple. It's common sense, it's common knowledge, it's factual. And thanks for pointing out the longevity of RTW in Iowa, I WAS going to leave this FACT out of the entire response but since you brought it up, Iowa has seen a massive overall decline in union membership that is directly tied to it's decades old RTW legislation. Thanks you for making my point even stronger, your a true gentleman

The data says that forced unionization weakens union participation. Forced unionization allows union leaders to take their members for granted, they get bad no matter how poor the representation. As I've stated before the Bureau of Labor Statistics back up the fact that unions have declined in forced union states & have actually increased in RTW states. Facts are a pesky thing.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

What does that have to do with RTW? Nothing.


I'll bite again, even though you will deny it applies. How about all the workers that don't get the full attention of their "free" representation at grievance, panel hearings? Probably lost a lot of money, and maybe jobs because of the union not fighting as hard for them. Federal law requires such. Why do you think that companies fight so hard, and spend money lobbying for RTW legislation, just so everything stays the same? Naïve.

Again, why should you get for free what the honest worker has to pay for? Wages? benefits? Vacations? I'd be ok with it if they would also get benefit package that non union workers would get, but law says otherwise. I bet they'd be willing to pay the dues if they were forced to take a $7/hr pay cut, HC cut, pension cut, etc, if not.

We've seen members not get full attention at grievance & panel hearings for less, something as simple as a dislike for the individual.

Nobody is getting wages, benefits & vacations for being in the union. They earn them one box at a time. The union leaders demonstrated with our last concessionary contract that they are just there for the free-ride.

 

[realbrown1]

What does that have to do with RTW? Nothing.


I'll bite again, even though you will deny it applies. How about all the workers that don't get the full attention of their "free" representation at grievance, panel hearings? Probably lost a lot of money, and maybe jobs because of the union not fighting as hard for them. Federal law requires such. Why do you think that companies fight so hard, and spend money lobbying for RTW legislation, just so everything stays the same? Naïve.

Again, why should you get for free what the honest worker has to pay for? Wages? benefits? Vacations? I'd be ok with it if they would also get benefit package that non union workers would get, but law says otherwise. I bet they'd be willing to pay the dues if they were forced to take a $7/hr pay cut, HC cut, pension cut, etc, if not.

You hit the nail on the head.
In my opinion, RTW is the first step in the right direction.
Unions need to shift fight that battle and move to fight having to represent employees who did not join the union or have paid dues to the union.
Also, if an individual chooses not to join the union, they shouldn't get any of the benefits of a union contract.
Not pay.
Not vacation time off.
Not union provided health care.
Not union provided pension either.

If an employer wants to match the union contract pay and benefits package, they may or may not do so. It would be up to an employer to make that decision.

We are all adults. Capable of choosing what is best for us and our families. I just can't stomach the fact that so many are forced to join the union and pay dues with out being given the choice to do so or not. That doesn't sound American to me.