Brown OUT today!!!!!!

[proups]

danny: I'm just doing the math. If the max is 155, and this driver should be running 19 stops per hour, then 155 stops would equal a 8.15 hour day, which after adding lunch and break would be 9.15 hours.

I'm thinking the max during heavy vacation periods, etc.. would be about 160-165.

 

[dannyboy]

REad his posts again, he stated the hours listed were hours worked. That means that time was working time, not total time out of building.

With what the supe saw out on road, 155 stops would be a 9.1 hour day, which is what they need to keep it under. I agree with what the on car sup stated, so the question still remains, why over dispatch the driver in the face of what was said and done?

d

(Message edited by dannyboy on August 14, 2005)

 

[over9five]

Danny, The answers obvious. Your center management team is no longer allowed to make a decision themselves. This falls into IEs area. They dispatch the center now via EMail from a thousand miles away. They decide how many stops each driver can do based on computer models.

 

[ok2bclever]

That's pretty much it on the head.

When the remote control decision making process is internet zipped down to the lowly center management team to use a maximum of 41 on road drivers today, that's it.

They have to split the work up between 41 drivers, period.

Maximums go out the window right along with service.

 

[lkjh]

"Well looks like a few drivers were upset today. After a few weeks of over dispatching, it came to a head today. 18 sick calls! 5 routes sitting! "


I'm glad you spelled things out.

On Monday they should all be fired for conducting an illegal job action.

 

[dannyboy]

If you look at the way our company is set up now, the center manager and down, even to a point the division and district manager, have very little control over what goes on in thier centers. While district has some more than the center manager, they are tied down to what gets told for them to do. and they are told NOT to deviate from that plan.

Problem is that I keep hearing that we are down in volume from so many, yet the company boasts that it is up 20%. Yet we are cutting areas that are in when the volume is down, way down. I have this year seen areas cut that have not been cut in 15 years. But yet the drivers have the work and are out late, usually 10 hours or more.

And we do have the drivers, more drivers than cars. It would seem to me that the powers that run the show are not in touch with reality, and those powers that be that are in touch are so neutered that they only have limited powers to run the business.

So why hire so many sups if there is nothing for them to do but follow directions from above? It seems like such a waste of manpower, brainpower, and effort.

d

 

[toonertoo]

Pd109, I didnt mean to imply I had 21 yrs as a pkg driver, I have 13yrs as a package driver, 2 as preload and 6 as pt preload sup. And back then if they told me x numbers of runs are planned but if you have enough work for more put them in, but you had better not have any under 8. It was flexible, the planned day was manageable, the standards were reasonable. And the drivers were happy, which lead to happy customers and happy mgmt. You could cater to someone who needed to get off early, and give the 10 hrs to the ones who wanted it, and there were ones that always wanted it. As well as the older guys who wanted to work 8 and hit the gate. Now the standards are unrealistic, there are no 8 hr days by standards, and everyone is unhappy with their dispatch. Im glad Im not on salary, I guess that is the upside. At least we get paid when we are working. And for the ones now who have no control over what they dispatch, you could not pay me enough to do that job now.

 

[over9five]

"So why hire so many sups if there is nothing for them to do but follow directions from above?"

An excellent point, Danny. If I were a center manager or sup, I would be worried about my job. All they have to do is have IE EMail the preload sup with the dispatch plan, and eliminate the middle men. Maybe thats the plan??

 

[worldwide]

I thought that actions such as this were not permitted under the contract that all Teamster employees agreed to?

Section 2. Work Stoppages

All grievances and/or questions of interpretation arising under the provisions of this National Master Agreement shall be submitted to the grievance procedure for determination. Accordingly, no work stoppage, slowdown, walkout or lockout over such grievances and/or questions of interpretation shall be deemed to be permitted or authorized by this Agreement.

Have these concerns been worked through the National Grievance Committee? Why not work with the procedures already put in place and agreed to by both parties?

"Think what would happen if every one actually stuck together and called in sick one Friday.
Think that would convey a message to management?"

 

[fedxsux]

Dannyboy- you are correct and hit it on the buttton the center teams don't have a clue and are really just following direction from above, and they have no idea.

Our center is a very unusual one to boot. we have 80+ driver and 3 on car sups 1 center manger I think the ratio is a bit off!!

 

[dannyboy]

We have 85 drivers, five on car, two center managers and one division manager.

Then we have a full time feeder sup, two full time preload, one full time PM sort, aprox 20 part time sups and 8 or so OMS personel.

And those are the ones not working undercover.

d

 

[susiedriver]

worldwide,

From the info given, this was NOT a work action, rather just a handful of drivers that perhaps felt as though they could not commit to finishing a typical day in a safe fashion. Given the choice of having an accident/incident/customer complaint due to fatigue, or calling off sick, I'd chose the later, if I felt that was my only option.

Having been through the ordeal of O/9.5 grievances, I can feel the pain.

An organized work stoppage would be illegal, and one could lose the job for that in a _______minute!

You're not a driver, are you?

 

[johnny]

I believe if a group of people "plan" a sick-out(keyword PLAN)at UPS that would be called a "wildcat strike".Which would not be tolerated.I could be wrong though.

 

[trickpony1]

worldwide,
Allow me to use a phrase that management quite often uses:

PROVE IT

 

[over9five]

First, I don't believe you could get a majority of the drivers to participate in a brown out. Most of us (no matter how much we complain) are dedicated employees.

Second, I think even if you got 25% to call out, it would be impossible to prove it was planned.

Thirdly, even if they could prove it, would they want to pursue it? We are so short-handed as it is!

 

[upsdude]

I believe we will be stuck in this cycle for quite some time. We have an IE guy as CEO that never ever worked hourly. He's a numbers guy. In the past, Oz Nelson was a customer service guy, Jim Kelly was an operator. Eskew was a calculator carrying pencil pusher that believes IE is the word of GOD. If it looks good on paper (and they have plenty) then it must and will work.

Again Mike, come get your hands dirty, just a week.

 

[worldwide]

fedxsux posted "18 sick calls! 5 routes sitting!"

trickpony1 posted "Think what would happen if every one actually stuck together and called in sick one Friday."

susiedriver posted "From the info given, this was NOT a work action, rather just a handful of drivers that perhaps felt as though they could not commit to finishing a typical day in a safe fashion."

I guess it was just a coincidence that 18 different drivers, without talking to each other ahead of time, woke up one morning and felt sick. Sounds reasonable. My point is why not work through the National Grievance Committee procedures? I thought that all drivers elected the Teamsters to represent them? Therefore, shouldn't you be working through your elected officials to correct what you feel is not right? Isn't that the point of having union representation? Why not work through the day to the best of your ability in a safe manner, by the methods. If you have to bring back packages, record them as missed in the proper manner. You can never get fired for following the methods and doing your job.

 

[ezrider]

I can only hope that this is an isolated incident and that it isn't the start of a trend. Although I can certainly relate to the frustration in putting up with the current state of the workplace that may have likely brought this on, the chances of this tactic bringing a desirable result to the drivers is slim to none.

Years ago I can remember the employees at TWA becoming fed up with being jerked around by management and the result was the ill-timed "sick-outs" done at a much more widespread scope across it's operations during the Christmas season, resulting in plenty of stranded passengers with no hope of spending the holiday with friends and family. I highly doubt any of those passengers left in limbo would ever have booked another flight with TWA again after being left high and dry. Less than a year later, TWA filed for bankruptcy. Given thier company's shaky financial status at the time of the selective "sick-outs", I can't see how the employees could have been surprised at the outcome months later.

That's not saying they didn't have a legitimate beef with the management, but one of the easiest ways to jeopardize one's job security is to stop showing up for the job.

 

[ok2bclever]

"You can never get fired for following the methods and doing your job."

Well, from years as a steward I would say that is naive although doing both gives you a better chance of getting your job back.

"I thought that all drivers elected the Teamsters to represent them?"

No, many are not even Teamsters and many that are never voted a day in their lives .

"just a coincidence" nope, probably not, although possible.

It could have been one heard a fed up tired driver say Thursday morning or night that they had had enough and were going to call in sick and the rest just thought that was a great idea not realizing so many others thought so too.

Quite possible with a seriously overworked workforce.

More likely there was some discussion though and that would be very dangerous for those involved.

If they were purposefully involved in an organized unauthorized work stoppage they would be subject to discipline up to and including termination.

Naive challenges like "prove it" are equally dangerous.

I would be very careful about talking about this incident if I was a driver involved as from a practical standpoint you could personally convince UPS to make an example of you and in the large picture 18 drivers nationwide is a disposable group.

UPS could decide to fire these drivers and unfortunately the burden of proof would be on the drivers, not the company.

Yeah, I know, that ain't right or democratic, but guess what, work ain't.

They trump up 17i (all other serious offenses) or whatever it is in your area which negates "innocent until proven guilty" and then you have to use the grievance procedure to get back to work.

The company could go hard ss (naw, they never do that) and force this up the line.

Several weeks or months later you are facing an offer of getting your job back with no back pay or gambling it all for the same or perhaps UPS decides to really send the message and your only chance is the union backs you all the way to an arbitrator and you win, something, even there perhaps only your job back without pay, except now you've been off for over a year.

Who knows.

I don't know anyone that really wants to put themselves in that position voluntarily.

 

[trickpony1]

So we are back to square one and the "might makes right" situation the company uses....irrespective of whether it is or isn't.