Brown OUT today!!!!!!

[dannyboy]

Trick

Unless you are naive, your statement is funny. I would assume you have not seen now the union company panel works. It is a give and take system. The company gives some and the union gives some. And then some go to an arbitrator.

Ihave seen cases that were very strong for the employee, cases that would have been a joke had it not been for the threat of termination, sunk because one of the union guys voted with the company, and I have also seen very weak cases where there was no way the driver ever should have gotten their job back, won because of one vote from the company.

The only way this could be possible is for behind the scene agreements. You give us this one and we will give you that one. And if it something that the company feels strongly about, like the sickout (anyway you want to paint it, it was still a wildcat strike), they would allow many of the week ones to be won.

Or they might pick three of the main players and tell the union, make it look good, and we will allow these 15 back, without pay, but these three are gone. Period.

Its a game. And your local BA is mostly on the sidelines when it gets played.

Sorry, I value my job too much to allow it to be threatened by a game of chance.

UPS can, at its discretion, fire at will. And it will use and abuse the contract in spite of the Teamsters. BUt usually the hourly person makes it easy for them.

d

 

[ok2bclever]

Trick, well if you are basically saying "life ain't fair", yep, welcome back to the real world.

What Danny portrays is basically sound, albeit "street" slanted in terminology and attitude.

I agree most drivers consider this whole deal, small time rookie wildcat, the grievance procedure, etc. "a game"

If you want to call it that then it's a money game like poker and those drivers just tried to bluff the company by shoving all their earnings into the pot.

Won't work, the company will call because the company doesn't bluff.

UPS doesn't consider it ain't a game, it's a business.

And unless it deadlocks to the arbitrator (very rare) which is a long, expensive process for all involved there has to be give and take by the nature of the grievance procedure.

And from a driver's point of view (the only relevant one for those of us on this side of the fence and believe me there is a big fence and sides once you enter this territory) we lose far more than we win, again by the nature of the grievance procedure.

You can call that "dealing" or compromise, again just a matter of terminology slant, but grow up and realize this is a business any way you look at it and the financial aspects and how they impact the company, union and driver will be factors in how it "plays" out.

The order of the "players"; company, union, driver was not random either in regards to how significant the financial aspects of each will factor in to the end result.

How much input your BA has really depends on your BA and how effectively he has networked into the Teamster organization.

 

[trickpony1]

Thanks to both of you.
I've been around 27+ years.
I am aware it is a game and, unfortunately, some good people lose their jobs (careers) due to the "trading" that's not supposed to be going on.
I sometimes wonder if the union isn't the company's best friend because the company can pull tricks that it wouldn't get away with if the fired employee had a sharp attorney.
I am truly surprised there aren't attorney's standing outside the gates.....Oh but wait....it has to go through the grievance procedure first....stupid me.

 

[ok2bclever]

If the union and company blatantly screws someone the lawyer route is always available, good luck because it is rarely cut and dried and the terminated employee is seldom squeaky clean, nor the company an evil giant so the lawyer bit is an over rated threat.

"I'll sue UPS for a million bucks" is about as common a saying with employees as "I'm innocent" is with convicts.

If the union is faced with a situation where let us say 18 employees conspired to attempt to seriously damage UPS, it's day to day operations and it's reputation (purely a hypothetical scenario) and UPS terminates all of them and then appears willing to only take three of the fold permanently down and let the other fifteen resume their careers.

Does the union risk all eighteen careers and all the ruined family lives that that entails knowing no arbitrator is going to believe the eighteen were innocent victims or do they concede and save the fifteen?

Some would call that "trading" like it is a nefarious secret society thing while others will acknowledge that real life is full of compromise, give and take or "trading", if you will, especially when you are not innocent and only children believe that knights were pure.

 

[ok2bclever]

Always jumping to conclusions!

Perhaps the terminal should be inspected by OSHA for some sort of contamination that led to such a high sickness incident.

 

[dannyboy]

Ok

Sorry for the "street" slant of the process. I guess it is the fact that I have seen too many drivers hit the streetafter a hearing and not be in browns.

d

 

[gman]

Bottom line

It's all about the money. Things are going back to the early days of unions when the company had all the money and all the power. The Teamsters are dwindleing down and until the general work force nationwide feels the hammer coming down and reacts, it's not going to get any better. There are so many men and women right now working in $10 an hour jobs, with no benefits struggleing to get by on two jobs that they would take your job in a heartbeat. Corporate America is getting their wish. A crumbleing unionized workforce. The auto workers have already weakened. We are on the way. When the contract comes due, those people will be our biggest rival. We, the haves, against the have nots. UPS will have folks drooling at the mouth to take your job. And we may all be so sick of working 10, 11 and 12 hour days, we might just chuck it and give them up. And when I say that, I mean go out on strike. And if we do that, unfortunately, I doubt any of us will wear brown again. Not an opinion I like but the one I think is going to come about.

HOwever, the teamsters know that if we strike, there will be now union left. There will be no money to run it. There will be no one left paying into the pension or health plan. The entire system will die. That is why we will take waht the company offers and live with it. like it or not. And even if we take a pay cut, count on the Teamsters raising dues again. JMO

 

[double_standard]

So fedxsux...what happened with those 18 drivers?Was there any repercussions?I suspect there was,or soon will be.

 

[over9five]

"UPS will have folks drooling at the mouth to take your job. "

That is so much BS. Where are they? Send them over here, we need them now!

There probably are folks drooling at the mouth for our money, but not our job. We've started so many people here who quit after a couple days. People looking for a job nowadays simply do not have the work ethic that current employees have. Everybody wants to make a lot of money, but theyre not going to work hard.

So they won't be working at UPS.

 

[speeddemon]

We cant keep employees at my center. They cant or dont want to actually work for thier living. Must be a hell of a short line for my job.

 

[gman]

Are you talking full time or part time? I can not recall a "driver" quitting for the last 7 or 8 years.

I would agree with part time. But full time jobs in my area are hard to come by. We are loosing routes all the time. And not because of higher SPORH, but because in the rust belt, we no longer have the work. Our part timers are waiting close to ten years for an opportunity. Be happy you have so much opportunity. And keep in mind, if they bring in replacements for half your wage, (by then,$28 an hour) and little or no benis, they can double the work force and double the profits. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. There are no more good paying easy jobs. Quite honstly, I personally think it's just getting back to the way it was when I started driving in '76. I never got home til 9. As a young driver, as soon as I hit the building, they put me on the reload until they finished up. Is it really so much worse now?

Now I'm sure you're thinking he's been taken over by the Big Brown fear factor. Hey, I'll be retired when the stuff hits the fan. My concern now is that there is still a Teamster pension plan to pay me back for the 36 years I gave to them.

 

[laborer]

gman: I know wages are a concern to upper management but it still all comes down to IE(or whoever is calling the shots) only allowing X amount of cars on road. With PAS/EDD our number of routes is based solely on getting an average of 118 stops per car. If wages were all that mattered then they wouldn't be sending preloaders home and having drivers finish loading their cars.

In our area they now have to hire TCD's off the street because of a lack of interest from the part-time work force. I'm sure you would have lines around the building if UPS were to have mass package car driver hirings but how many of those could and would do the job for half the pay? If they cut wages and doubled the driving force they would also have to double the number of package cars and increase mechanics and increase building space, more insurance, etc. This wouldn't be anymore prudent for profits than the higher wages are. I can't see UPS lowering standards for drivers even if they cut wages. I wonder about our future.....

 

[johnny]

They wouldn't have to double the work force.I'm sure they would accept the turn over rate as a part of buisness.If there even was a big turn over rate.I remember when top pay was $16 an hour and I thought that was great.Now I know the cost of living has gone up now but just look through your local job listings and see what kind of jobs are out there for class "D" drivers.None that pay that.

 

[laborer]

I'm sure your right johnny since "Service" no longer seems to be a part of United Parcel and the high turnover wouldn't affect upper managements profits just the sanity of center sups and managers

 

[over9five]

"My concern now is that there is still a Teamster pension plan.."

Yeah, me too.

I'm talking full time. Must be a regional thing. We've put on five new drivers in the past few months, All five quit and we can't find more. We had this unlucky IE guy come down to get a couple weeks driving experience. He's been stuck here over two months now. No one else to do the route.

 

[fedxsux]

well, Monday morning came and gone and there was no talk at the pcm from management about all the sick calls, there wasn't even a pcm!!!
Funny tho the driver I mentioned earlier in the post was dispatched with 191 on monday and 198 today. Incredible!!! It's like peak in August!! The supes I hear can't even believe it, but all they say is "we need eight on the truck"

 

[gman]

9/5
If you had enough drivers, do you think the dispatch would come down? Is it a problem that since they can't get enough guys trained and on the road, they can't get the dispatch down? It can't be a positive for your center to have such a high turnover. It cost a lot to get these guys trained to the point where they can even go out by themselves.

As for our area, the news just announced that Delphi, a major supplier to GM, is considering shutting down in the area. 5000 jobs in several area plants with pay and benis similar to ours going out the window. One plant is a nearly half days delivery work for one driver. Plus the fall out of other business locations closing up and folks moving out due to the closier. We are one of the lowest cost of living areas is the country, if you have a job. Believe me when I say, NOBODY is going to quit here unless they have something else ahead of time. We have a driver who may lose his job due to a roll away. (But I hope not) You could almost hear a muffled cheer from the preload. One step closer to the daylight shift. I'm sure none of them wants to see someone lose their job but if thats what it takes for them to get a shot, I can understand where they are coming from.

And as for the I.E. guy, that may be a blessing for your center. Maybe he can go back and point out reality to his co-number crunchers.

 

[brown1]

Hey GMAN that sure is a cute baby but man it's got a big head!

 

[upsdude]

We may end up with our own little "Brown Out" today. Excessive hours all week. Yesterday we left the building at 9:30. I returned at 8:00 and was one of the first back. We have 11 on vacation and a couple out in limbo land (waiting on panel hearings). IE is controlling the preload start times and it ain't working. Drivers are being asked to punch in when they arrive to help load cars.

Hey Mike, you can't raise the stock price with missed pieces and late air. You can't raise the bottom line by paying me and 100 other drivers to stand around in the building. I made nearly $60.00 before I left the center yesterday. Shoot, If I had the same accuracy rate as IE, there would be 3 people waiting on a panel hearing.

 

[upsdude]

BTW, no "sick" call for me. I don't call in unless I'm sick.