Can You be Disciplined Or Terminated For Self-Incrimination?

[balland chain]

I have never falsified any information in my IVIS, however I had a manager threaten my job, call me a thief, and some other choice words during a 3 1/2 hour grilling of my work week.. I had a medical condition that caused me to have to use the restroom more than normal.. He called me in the following week on a thursday. I went to the doctor the monday prior to that thursday because of my problem.. When I tried to explain that he said " I do not want to hear about your personal problems." He claimed I was stealing time by having to pull over and use the restroom, AND, he stated that I had inbounded, but failed to punch the FW button on the IVIS. He claimed he was a witness because he saw me on property.. What good would it have done me to not hit FW ? I still punched out at the normal time but he claimed I was dishonest by not hitting FW (finish work). I know for a fact I hit the button prior to picking up the phone because I had to read the load info to the clerk.. He would not listen to me at all.. My union rep, who is not a feeder driver or understands feeders at all, sat there dumb founded and did not say a Fn' word.. My union did nothing at all.. I had to retain an attorney, spend my money 5K so this DICK would back off.. After my attorney spoke with the attorney at Corp. they did back off.. So, be careful, because they will use the information on the IVIS, and even make up some screwed up story to try to fire you..He of course changed his story. Next time (if) I will be prepared and take only a feeder driver shop steward into his office, or one that I can trust.

 

[bluehdmc]

ok. let's say you got in a major accident and killed 3 people. on reviewing your time card it was found that you did not take a meal. ( accident happened in 10th hr ).

but you did take a meal between the 4th-6th hr but punched ina 60 min break by mistake..

the co. has to pay the family 4 million dollars in damages. ( this actually happened in CA . the driver did not take a meal )
the co. would probably fire you because you cannot prove that you made a mistake. it's also possible that the driver could be charged with the felony of criminal negligence/ vehicular manslaughter.

his own info punched into the IVIS would be used against him.

and don't tell me. "don't make mistakes with your IVIS" our IVIS' screw up more than we do.

I don't see how the above could really be a problem. Under current DOT regs, no break/meal is required, just not more than 11 hrs drive time.
Under the rules coming into effect July 1st, a 1/2 hr break is mandated in 8hrs, again in the above example he took meal/break between his 4th and 6th hr. An actual log or printout of the log from the ivis just shows "off duty" or "on duty, not driving".
Whether it's coded as break or meal is really just an internal UPS thing. A paper log doesn't require you to specify break or meal, just off-duty.

 

[Coldworld]

Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

This may surprise you but it is possible to follow the methods and run scratch (or better).

do you think that you could do every route in the us and if you follow all the methods and work at a study pace, no running, no speedwalking and take your full lunch and breaks that you could scratch or bonus every route, once you had a good idea of the setup??

 

[Coldworld]

I think there is a line(sometimes a fine line according to mgt) between doing something dishonest and just screwing up putting a break in the wrong area....why do you guys think that ups uses dishonesty so often here...its pretty much all they have.

 

[Coldworld]

I have never falsified any information in my IVIS, however I had a manager threaten my job, call me a thief, and some other choice words during a 3 1/2 hour grilling of my work week.. I had a medical condition that caused me to have to use the restroom more than normal.. He called me in the following week on a thursday. I went to the doctor the monday prior to that thursday because of my problem.. When I tried to explain that he said " I do not want to hear about your personal problems." He claimed I was stealing time by having to pull over and use the restroom, AND, he stated that I had inbounded, but failed to punch the FW button on the IVIS. He claimed he was a witness because he saw me on property.. What good would it have done me to not hit FW ? I still punched out at the normal time but he claimed I was dishonest by not hitting FW (finish work). I know for a fact I hit the button prior to picking up the phone because I had to read the load info to the clerk.. He would not listen to me at all.. My union rep, who is not a feeder driver or understands feeders at all, sat there dumb founded and did not say a Fn' word.. My union did nothing at all.. I had to retain an attorney, spend my money 5K so this DICK would back off.. After my attorney spoke with the attorney at Corp. they did back off.. So, be careful, because they will use the information on the IVIS, and even make up some screwed up story to try to fire you..He of course changed his story. Next time (if) I will be prepared and take only a feeder driver shop steward into his office, or one that I can trust.

let me guess..he got promoted..

 

[Inthegame]

I have never falsified any information in my IVIS, however I had a manager threaten my job, call me a thief, and some other choice words during a 3 1/2 hour grilling of my work week.. I had a medical condition that caused me to have to use the restroom more than normal.. He called me in the following week on a thursday. I went to the doctor the monday prior to that thursday because of my problem.. When I tried to explain that he said " I do not want to hear about your personal problems." He claimed I was stealing time by having to pull over and use the restroom, AND, he stated that I had inbounded, but failed to punch the FW button on the IVIS. He claimed he was a witness because he saw me on property.. What good would it have done me to not hit FW ? I still punched out at the normal time but he claimed I was dishonest by not hitting FW (finish work). I know for a fact I hit the button prior to picking up the phone because I had to read the load info to the clerk.. He would not listen to me at all.. My union rep, who is not a feeder driver or understands feeders at all, sat there dumb founded and did not say a Fn' word.. My union did nothing at all.. I had to retain an attorney, spend my money 5K so this DICK would back off.. After my attorney spoke with the attorney at Corp. they did back off.. So, be careful, because they will use the information on the IVIS, and even make up some screwed up story to try to fire you..He of course changed his story. Next time (if) I will be prepared and take only a feeder driver shop steward into his office, or one that I can trust.

You mean you have never "intentionally" falsified info on your IVIS. Everybody screws up sometime. Of course you should have had a Feeder steward but there's little a steward can do if you indeed suffered through the longest "grilling" in UPS history. Hope you were on the clock. After 30 minutes of that "grilling" I'd be out the door and talking directly to the BA. The Doctors statement was all you needed and had you notified MNGT of your physical situation you'd still have 5K in your pocket if indeed you even saw a lawyer.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Drivers punch in everything into their boards or IVIS. Can you be disciplined or terminated from the info you punch in yourself? Can this technology be used against you ?

Honest mistakes.... are just that. If it is brought to your attention and you repeat it.... Different story.

Anything you enter can be used, same as on paper.

Yep.

When the company starts looking.... there is a reason "why".

Can you give any examples of possible entries which could be used against us?

Falsification.

That was the "intent" of telematics.

The 5th Amendment to the US constitution reads, in part, that "no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself."

Work-related performance or disciplinary issues have absolutely nothing to do with criminal issues where the State is charging and prosecuting an individual for a crime.

People confuse the constitution with our contract. Meh....

We had an employee terminated a few years back for falsifying his odometer entries each day by adding 25 miles to his total driven in order to make "bonus".

A simple audit revealed the fact that, for several weeks, his starting miles every morning were 25 less than his ending miles for the previous day and when questioned he was unable to provide a plausible explanation for the discrepancy.

It doesnt get much more clear cut than that. He knowingly falsified his odometer entires with the intention of defrauding the company, and those entries were used against him in his termination hearing.

Unfortunately.... that happens everywhere.

As usual, if you aren't trying to get away with anything or friend the Company you don't have anything to worry about.

It shouldn't have to be said.... But, I guess it needs to be repeated.

The 5th amendment and the incorporation doctrine of the 14th amendment are limited to legal proceedings, and have no authority over UPS termination hearings or center level discussions.

If you ever ligitimately have to invoke that right due to something you have done at work, you will likely have long been let go. The solution is simple, don't falsify information and don't put yourself in a position where you would have to with hold job threatening information.

Yep.

Probably fire you??? killing someone in an accident is a cardinal sin, termination is almost guaranteed!

Depends on the circumstances.

in 25 years I have known 2 drivers that killed someone in an accident and they are still working here.

This is untrue. Killing someone in an accident is not a cardinal sin. It has to be proven negligence.

I've been screaming about this since the start.

Scream all you want. If you are doing what you should be.... there is no problem.

You mean you have never "intentionally" falsified info on your IVIS. Everybody screws up sometime. Of course you should have had a Feeder steward but there's little a steward can do if you indeed suffered through the longest "grilling" in UPS history. Hope you were on the clock. After 30 minutes of that "grilling" I'd be out the door and talking directly to the BA. The Doctors statement was all you needed and had you notified MNGT of your physical situation you'd still have 5K in your pocket if indeed you even saw a lawyer.

All I can do is wonder.... why TDU lies to people.... about these type's of things.



​-Bug-

 

[anonymous6]

when you are accused of doing something and you are innocent, you will know what I am talking about.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

when you are accused of doing something and you are innocent, you will know what I am talking about.

The company can talk....all the smack they want.

They bear the burden of proof.

Don't be a wuss.



​-Bug-

 

[104Feeder]

I have never falsified any information in my IVIS, however I had a manager threaten my job, call me a thief, and some other choice words during a 3 1/2 hour grilling of my work week.. I had a medical condition that caused me to have to use the restroom more than normal.. He called me in the following week on a thursday. I went to the doctor the monday prior to that thursday because of my problem.. When I tried to explain that he said " I do not want to hear about your personal problems." He claimed I was stealing time by having to pull over and use the restroom, AND, he stated that I had inbounded, but failed to punch the FW button on the IVIS. He claimed he was a witness because he saw me on property.. What good would it have done me to not hit FW ? I still punched out at the normal time but he claimed I was dishonest by not hitting FW (finish work). I know for a fact I hit the button prior to picking up the phone because I had to read the load info to the clerk.. He would not listen to me at all.. My union rep, who is not a feeder driver or understands feeders at all, sat there dumb founded and did not say a Fn' word.. My union did nothing at all.. I had to retain an attorney, spend my money 5K so this DICK would back off.. After my attorney spoke with the attorney at Corp. they did back off.. So, be careful, because they will use the information on the IVIS, and even make up some screwed up story to try to fire you..He of course changed his story. Next time (if) I will be prepared and take only a feeder driver shop steward into his office, or one that I can trust.

Why do they have you hitting FW at the phones? That should be TA. We don't hit FW, now Logoff, until the tractor is parked in the tractor pile.

You have the right to request a the steward of your choosing as long as they are available. At the very least if you have to go in with a non-feeder steward get one or your BA on speaker phone.

 

[104Feeder]

I don't see how the above could really be a problem. Under current DOT regs, no break/meal is required, just not more than 11 hrs drive time.
Under the rules coming into effect July 1st, a 1/2 hr break is mandated in 8hrs, again in the above example he took meal/break between his 4th and 6th hr. An actual log or printout of the log from the ivis just shows "off duty" or "on duty, not driving".
Whether it's coded as break or meal is really just an internal UPS thing. A paper log doesn't require you to specify break or meal, just off-duty.

Thats one thing they are going to have to adjust because last I checked the FDT still shows a break as "on duty, not driving". Its going to have to say "off duty" to qualify as the rest period. Im sure they do it to make payroll easy, but its inaccurate for HOS purposes. DOT doesnt care about the pay part.