Clarification on Article 15 (Central Supplement)

[brownmonster]

Prior to Ron C.

But, not before 1987.





I'm not jerking your chain.

More like "coitusing" with you.

There you go.


You have to follow the "progression" of the Article....

Instead, of trying to read a literal interpretation of the first section.

It's the same thing, as I posted last year.


Short of taking cash.... credit card ??



-Bug-

Day after Thanksgiving isn't mentioned as a UPS Holiday.

 

[rpoz11]

OK, so as Big Union Guy points this all out, how is it that JH and team allow this change on FT employees where as the strength in language precedent seems to be now negated.
BUG...
How do we enact the changes necessary for rank and file across the Master to regain these rights?

 

[BigUnionGuy]

For someone who was once infamous for "coitusing" with me for using big words, you have had me "googling" a bunch of yours?

I like it.

Hey.... it's fun for "free".

When I first became a part-time steward, the night before grievance hearings

I would think out my arguments and look up words in the dictionary to use.

Kind of like an intimidation tactic, to combat the company's arrogance.

I still remember one grievance, when I dropped the word "Draconian" on them.

They were like


Worked every time.

Still can't get past the "shall not be required".
It's "literally" sloppy language.

The progression makes sense to me. But, for the sake of argument.... I will agree

it could be cleaned up for the benefit of the layperson or novice.

I would be proud to buy you a beer or drink of your choice.

Dude....

Now i have to call Paypal, and cancel that non-payment dispute.



-Bug-

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Day after Thanksgiving isn't mentioned as a UPS Holiday.

Yep.

It didn't appear as a "paid" Holiday until 1982.


But.... "except as otherwise provided" showed up in 1976.

Prior to Article 40, and (1 contract) prior to the National Agreement.


So, there's that.



-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

But.... "except as otherwise provided" showed up in 1976.

Prior to Article 40, and (1 contract) prior to the National Agreement.

Ok, but assuming it wasn't just thrown in there on whim in 1976....

....what was "except as otherwise provided in this agreement" in reference to...

In the absence of Art 40 and the National Master???

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Ok, but assuming it wasn't just thrown in there on whim in 1976....

....what was "except as otherwise provided in this agreement" in reference to...

In the absence of Art 40 and the National Master???

The only definitive way you could ascertain that....

Would be talk with the Committee members that negotiated the language.

There is one name, that should catch your attention.



-Bug-

 

[km3]

Somebody disagreed with my post with my steward's response... That got me thinking, does anybody here know if/where in the Contract/Supplement "regular seniority employee" is defined?

 

[Bubblehead]

The only definitive way you could ascertain that....

Would be talk with the Committee members that negotiated the language.

I guess I could dig up an old wigi board?

There is one name, that should catch your attention.

Yep, Bert Clouse, the "Godfather of Dog Fighting".

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Does anybody here know if/where in the Contract/Supplement "regular seniority employee" is defined?

Central Region

Article 1 Section 1 (a)

"After working thirty (30) days within a ninety (90) consecutive day period, the employee shall be placed on the regular seniority list, and his/her seniority date shall revert back to the first (1st) day of the thirty (30) day period in which the employee gained seniority."


https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/06242014_77983_central_region-final.pdf



-Bug-

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I guess I could dig up an old Ouija board?

You're slipping....

 

[Bubblehead]

You're slipping....

I'm hooked on "fonics"...and tired.

 

[km3]

Central Region

Article 1 Section 1 (a)

"After working thirty (30) days within a ninety (90) consecutive day period, the employee shall be placed on the regular seniority list, and his/her seniority date shall revert back to the first (1st) day of the thirty (30) day period in which the employee gained seniority."


https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/06242014_77983_central_region-final.pdf



-Bug-

Thanks. I spent some time looking for it before posting. By that definition, it sounds like my steward would be wrong. But I'm still confused.

Article 1.1 clearly defines a "regular seniority employee" in such a way that it applies to me. Article 15.4 says no "regular seniority employee" can be forced to work on those days (I was originally planning on working if work was available, so not a huge deal...this time), and that they shall be paid double their normal rate if they do work.

Article 1.1 lays out the holiday pay benefits, benefits which I don't get until after one year, without mention of the "regular seniority employee" language. Article 15.4 says absolutely nothing about the double pay rate being derived from stacking regular pay on top of holiday pay. It merely says employees who work shall receive double their rate.

This thing really is a mess. It looks like somebody was just trying to push it through and get it signed as quickly as possible, without adequate proofreading. :/

I'm gonna talk to my BA.

 

[Mugarolla]

Thanks. I spent some time looking for it before posting. By that definition, it sounds like my steward would be wrong. But I'm still confused.

Article 1.1 clearly defines a "regular seniority employee" in such a way that it applies to me. Article 15.4 says no "regular seniority employee" can be forced to work on those days (I was originally planning on working if work was available, so not a huge deal...this time), and that they shall be paid double their normal rate if they do work.

Article 1.1 lays out the holiday pay benefits, benefits which I don't get until after one year, without mention of the "regular seniority employee" language. Article 15.4 says absolutely nothing about the double pay rate being derived from stacking regular pay on top of holiday pay. It merely says employees who work shall receive double their rate.

This thing really is a mess. It looks like somebody was just trying to push it through and get it signed as quickly as possible, without adequate proofreading. :/

I'm gonna talk to my BA.

In the Central, you are a regular seniority employee after working 30 days in a 90 period.

You are not required to work Friday.

If you are required to work Friday, you get double time plus the holiday pay.

Sounds confusing?

Basically they can require you to work but they have to pay you double time.

Yes it needs to be cleaned up a little.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Article 1.1 clearly defines a "regular seniority employee" in such a way that it applies to me..

Have you gained seniority ?

Article 1.1 lays out the holiday pay benefits, benefits which I don't get until after one year

Huh?

Are you confusing medical benefits, with holiday pay?

This thing really is a mess. It looks like somebody was just trying to push it through and get it signed as quickly as possible, without adequate proofreading.

Pfft.

40 year old contract language.

You are not required to work Friday.

A seniority employee given a "scheduled start time" is.

Just like any other work day.

That doesn't mean people won't call off....



-Bug-

 

[Mugarolla]

A seniority employee given a "scheduled start time" is.

Just like any other work day.



-Bug-

There you go again Bug, only quoting part of a post.

I was mocking the contradicting Central language.

I said he is not required to work Friday per Section 1.

I then said if he is required to work, it is double time per Section 4.

If he has a scheduled start time, yes, he is required to work and will be paid double time plus the holiday pay.

Then again, Section 1 says he is not required to work.

I think we really have him confused.

It will be cleaned up in 2018. Friday after Thanksgiving will be removed from Section 1. The question is whether we will get another option day as a replacement.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

It will be cleaned up in 2018. Friday after Thanksgiving will be removed from Section 1.

Not a chance.

 

[Mugarolla]

Not a chance.

I'll bet you a round. Winner picks the place.

 

[km3]

Okay, let me try to be the one to clarify now.

I was reading on here, in the original topic in the UPS Discussions forum about being forced to work on the day after Thanksgiving, and decided to take a look at my Union Book for myself. I noticed that it said that if "regular seniority employees" were required to work on holidays, they get paid double their normal rate with a guarantee of 4 hours (for part-timers such as myself). (Article 15.4)

I posted this thread, and spoke with my steward later that same night. At this point, I was only trying to clarify whether I would still be paid double the rate if I "made myself available" to work those days, because the language says if you're required to work. (I also wanted to confirm with my steward that we're covered by the Central Supplement since we're technically in the Desert Mountain region, and he insists we are.)

It was when I spoke with my steward that he told me that the double pay comes from holiday pay (for which I am apparently ineligible until 1 year of employment) and that "regular seniority employees" are employees with 1 year of seniority (according to Article 1.1 as mentioned above, I now know this to be false).

Now, I'm still confused about whether I get double pay or not. Article 15.4 certainly says nothing about holiday pay, only that you shall be paid twice the normal amount if required to work (which I am on Friday). Do I still get paid double if I don't have the holiday pay benefit yet?

Huh?

Are you confusing medical benefits, with holiday pay?

Yes, sorry. I meant 15.1, not 1.1.

 

[Bubblehead]

Okay, let me try to be the one to clarify now.

I was reading on here, in the original topic in the UPS Discussions forum about being forced to work on the day after Thanksgiving, and decided to take a look at my Union Book for myself. I noticed that it said that if "regular seniority employees" were required to work on holidays, they get paid double their normal rate with a guarantee of 4 hours (for part-timers such as myself). (Article 15.4)

I posted this thread, and spoke with my steward later that same night. At this point, I was only trying to clarify whether I would still be paid double the rate if I "made myself available" to work those days, because the language says if you're required to work. (I also wanted to confirm with my steward that we're covered by the Central Supplement since we're technically in the Desert Mountain region, and he insists we are.)

It was when I spoke with my steward that he told me that the double pay comes from holiday pay (for which I am apparently ineligible until 1 year of employment) and that "regular seniority employees" are employees with 1 year of seniority (according to Article 1.1 as mentioned above, I now know this to be false).

Now, I'm still confused about whether I get double pay or not. Article 15.4 certainly says nothing about holiday pay, only that you shall be paid twice the normal amount if required to work (which I am on Friday). Do I still get paid double if I don't have the holiday pay benefit yet?



Yes, sorry. I meant 15.1, not 1.1.

There are still more layers to the onion I'm afraid.
Since you are an air driver?, the company has taken the position that you are considered "air support" and will only receive straight time per Art 40 of the National Master.
This was grieved last year by hundreds of employees and has been deadlocked through the panel system and is awaiting arbitration.
I suspect you will only be paid straight time Friday and I suggest that you grieve for double time in hopes of a favorable arbitration decision sometime this decade.

 

[km3]

There are still more layers to the onion I'm afraid.
Since you are an air driver?, the company has taken the position that you are considered "air support" and will only receive straight time per Art 40 of the National Master.
This was grieved last year by hundreds of employees and has been deadlocked through the panel system and is awaiting arbitration.
I suspect you will only be paid straight time Friday and I suggest that you grieve for double time in hopes of a favorable arbitration decision sometime this decade.

No, I want to become a Saturday Air driver. Right now, all I do is load trailers on the midnight shift.