Clinton unveils mandatory health care insurance plan

[brett636]

People who say that the private sector do a better job then the government when it comes to health care should take note.
For all their differences, other countries publicly regulate the provision of health care more closely than the United States. Defenders of the U.S. system often decry these alternatives as forms of "rationing" and "bureaucracy." The United States, however, already has plenty of both, courtesy of the private, profit driven system. Every HMO or managed-care arrangement in the United States rations care - permitting a patient to see a specialist only if referred by a primary-care physician, refusing to cover certain treatments altogether - while the system as a whole rations care according to ability to pay. And even the Wall Street Journal admits that the U.S. system "has accumulated a massive bureaucracy that simply doesn't exist in other countries." Perhaps one fourth of so-called "health care" workers "do nothing but paperwork."
It should not come as any surprise that, for our unmatched levels of spending, the United States gets less than it pays for. What the U.S. system has - inefficiency, red tape, and big profits - is expensive. What it lacks - universal coverage- is priceless.
I am going to take a look at Cheryl's links ,being informed is the key when makeing a choice on this matter folks.

I would like to know what article you copied that from. Universal coverage is not working out in other countries yet it claims it will work here? As I said before the system is not perfect, but its far better than a government run system.

I'm really beginning to think this is an attack by the impoverished on the middle class. If universal healthcare was enacted, the people asking for it that are already on government programs would see no change in their level of healthcare while unilaterally declining my level of care to their level all the while raising my taxes to pay for it. Sounds like a lose/lose situation to me.

 

[mikeb]

If u want to see government run health care at its worst, look no further than the VA system. Its a huge, waseful system riddled with layers of beaucracy. Also, last I checked medicare is going broke. Nuff said.

 

[beatupbrown]

I would like to know what article you copied that from. Universal coverage is not working out in other countries yet it claims it will work here? As I said before the system is not perfect, but its far better than a government run system.

I'm really beginning to think this is an attack by the impoverished on the middle class. If universal healthcare was enacted, the people asking for it that are already on government programs would see no change in their level of healthcare while unilaterally declining my level of care to their level all the while raising my taxes to pay for it. Sounds like a lose/lose situation to me.

I have been through are health care system most docs I talk to say we need a change because of insurance companies paying months late the waste of money that docs spend on just dealing with these companies is crazy.
Now where did you hear that universal care does not work in other countries. That is not what I have researched please give a link to what you are saying. It is by no means any close to perfect.
UPS folks have a lot to loss it so I can understand most of you are against this.
Brett here is a link , Cheryl has some links it might take some time try to keep a open mind.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/Health_watch.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/HealthCare_USA.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/HealthSpendingCountries.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/O_Canada_KP.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/Health_vsMedicine.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/PrivateCare_Canada.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/HowMuchSPCost.html
The first link is the master link and will get you to more links.It will be silly to post all the links that is in the first link.Keep A open mind enjoy.

 

[Sammie]

I would like to know what article you copied that from. Universal coverage is not working out in other countries yet it claims it will work here? As I said before the system is not perfect, but its far better than a government run system.

The last I read of Hillary's reintroduction of national health care, she wants everyone to go out and purchase some kind of health insurance. Easy for her to say as she and Bill have something like 15 mill between them from book deals alone.

Which means that those hovering above, on or below the poverty line, and who are uninsured (but who earn too much to go on welfare/
medicaide) and whose numbers are between 40 and 50 million, are supposed to go trotting out and buy health insurance. Now THAT'S realistic. These people can barely feed themselves but they're going to spend what, $4000 a year on a policy with a $2000 deductible. In essence, people are going to purchase insurance they can't afford, which most likely wouldn't provide the coverage needed in the event of a serious illness or accident.

The way I see it, this country has gone from By the People, For the People and Of the People, to By the Profit, For the Profit and Of the Profit. If the U.S. government is just about owned by enormous corporations, how can politicians represent us? They naturally want to keep their jobs, as do you and I, and in order to do so, they have to get re-elected. Which is a very expensive. So they accept big donations from big corporations. Now tell me who's calling the shots.

Hospitals are privately owned and their profit margin is the bottom line. Women who have babies are often encouraged to go home the same day. With a C section they might get an extra 24 hours. In years past I don't even recall ads on the radio or on TV advertising hospitals. And nursing homes. Have any of you ever volunteered at one of the low end ones and prayed to God you wouldn't have spend your last days there?

So whether it's Hillary's way or another, we're in a bad situation. Health care is a money making business and health care providers spend a huge portion of the health care dollar not on the ailing patient, but on marketing, admin costs and, of course, profit. They avoid adding risky people to their plans and do their best to avoid paying for services.

This is an interesting article on the Modern Hoaxes of Medicine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20071117155318/http://www.newstarget.com/022007.html

So is health care to become a privilege or a right?

 

[truce]

@brett: I went to an emergency room for a valid reason. I just don't want to share every medical issue I ever had.

The way I take it then is that some people would just like to use the government for it's contracts, and nothing else? Is it OK then to go and spend billions of dollars to fix other people's problems overseas and not take care of our own people?

If it's all about the individual, so why did a lot of the people on this forum organize? Besides, I think they should let those who don't want to pay taxes keep every dime to themselves. In that case, those people should be banned from public roads, should be forced to take their kids out of public schools, be denied the rights to call 911 in an emergency, etc.

brett, you may have already traveled, but I suggest to hop on a plane and go see the results of these other "faulty" health care systems firsthand. You might want to use the gate that doesn't have TSA inspecting it. You probably think that agency is a complete waste of time, too.

Really, I am not trying to come back and slam you, brett. I don't even know if I disagree with you on some of the things you say. It's just if you think the government is slow-changing, then you and I should change it now. It's a free country, right? Think about it, if every individual pulls the government their own direction, we won't move an inch. We have to debate and try to agree on most fundamental issues as a country. Then we will make our government more efficient and make it work for us all.

 

[brett636]

I don't have time to write everything would like to say right now, but here is my take on what the two of you are saying.

beatupbrown- Your website seems awfully biased and provides no citations for sources where it gets its statistics. Not everything written on the internet is true, and I suggest you do some better research regarding this issue.

truce- I am seeing a stark difference on our views on how the government should be run. I believe the government should stay out of our lives as much as possible. I don't believe in cradle to grave entitlements. The last sentence in your statement is very showing that you feel the government should be there to coddle you through life. Read the first quote in my signature to get a better understanding of the net result of what you preach.

 

[cheryl]

If you are interested in this topic you have to watch this 6 part John Stossel report:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

 

[diesel96]

Free markets in health care don't work--particularly if we're unwilling to just let uninsured and poor people die or wither with sickness, which since libertarians remain a thankfully tiny minority, we won't.
-Increasing Businesses and Corperations are no longer willing to provide healthcare or reduce coverage substantially
-The incentives insurance industries have to cherry-pick healthy customers is on the rise...e.g. Walmart
-If the uninsured or middle class poor (above poverty status) get severely ill or break something, they don't have the serious option of getting health care
-The extent to which passing costs to the consumer creates incentives to avoid preventive care or abstain from insurance cost and rely on emergency rooms, which increases expenses in the long run.

Medicaid works better than the private (which is to say, managed care) sector. It spends less per patient of equivalent health; has enjoyed a slower rate of growth; and shows virtually no difference in utilization of medical services, which means Medicaid patients are seeking and receiving as much care as similarly situated patients in the private market. (Children actually use more services.)

Unless your only criterion for evaluating health care is the best quality of care available to upper-class individuals, it's a question of people who are looking at the evidence and people who won't believe evidence that doesn't say that markets are better at everything.

It will be very difficult to achieve given the institutional realities of the American state, but there's no question that single-payer would be vastly superior to the status quo; it would make American businesses more competitive, provide far more equitable coverage, and probably save money as well. Unless you're a libertarian (or the kind of Bushian conservative for whom conservatism means nothing more than the self-interest of the most powerful), it's a no-brainer.

 

[beatupbrown]

. I have given you info from valid government info from many sources.
Where do you get your info from?You have yet to show me anything links articles.1

 

[traveler]

The last I read of Hillary's reintroduction of national health care, she wants everyone to go out and purchase some kind of health insurance. Easy for her to say as she and Bill have something like 15 mill between them from book deals alone.

Actually, she would mandate that everyone purchase heath care insurance. I don't want insurance! I priced it about five years ago when my wife retired and found that with our pre-existing conditions we would pay quite a bit. (She was the provider of our insurance while she worked) Generally, my wife and I are quite healthy and we decided to go it without. In the last five years, only in one year would I have received more in reimbursement that I paid in premiums and not a great deal more either. Part of this is due to the fact that my wife and I have negotiated our own discount for the treatment we receive. All of our doctors charge us what Medicare reimburses them. That is far below their stated rates. The local hospital allows 40% off if you pay the bill at the time of the procedure. Our drugs come from Canada, England or other countries. We also found that in India, you can purchase drugs at any pharmacy without a prescription and at extremely low rates. The quantities are not limited either. (Example, a package of 10 allergy drugs (claratin) cost us $1.15.) We also have the option of choosing any doctor we desire. We do not need a referral for care by a specialist. All our medical decisions are made by us, not some insurance company clerk.

I do believe that one of the problems in the USA is that employers have supplied coverage for most of their workers. Americans feel that top of the line health-care is their right. Those with insurance mostly never look at the charges as would one without insurance does and therefore, in many cases, insurance pays the top rate for their treatment. Of course many insurers have deals with certain doctors and hospitals but that forces the insured to use the facilities the insurance company dictates. In some (many cases), not the best or the most desirable decision. Although it will never happen, if no one had health insurance, I believe prices would be forced down by supply vs. demand. A true free market system. Of course this would have many other not so great side effects such as people going without treatment or taking the cheapest not the best treatment.

I don't believe that mandated health insurance is the answer but, unfortunately, I don't have any solution for this problem. I don't think "give it a try" is the answer either. Have you ever seen the government get into something and admit it was not a good idea and then pull out?

 

[beatupbrown]

Cheryl I found the 20/20 show one sided in that did not give enough time to the opposing view on universal health care.
I would have to say Sicko was slanted like the 20/20 show was .
Thanks for the clip I like to see all information out there.
Here Brett here is some more information on this matter .
Authors:
Karen Davis, Ph.D., Cathy Schoen, M.S., Stephen C. Schoenbaum, M.D., M.P.H., Michelle M. Doty, Ph.D., M.P.H., Alyssa L. Holmgren, M.P.A., Jennifer L. Kriss, and Katherine K. Shea
Editor(s):
Deborah Lorber
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678

 

[cheryl]

Cheryl I found the 20/20 show one sided in that did not give enough time to the opposing view on universal health care.
I would have to say Sicko was slanted like the 20/20 show was .
Thanks for the clip I like to see all information out there.
Here Brett here is some more information on this matter .
Authors:
Karen Davis, Ph.D., Cathy Schoen, M.S., Stephen C. Schoenbaum, M.D., M.P.H., Michelle M. Doty, Ph.D., M.P.H., Alyssa L. Holmgren, M.P.A., Jennifer L. Kriss, and Katherine K. Shea
Editor(s):
Deborah Lorber
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678

Oddly enough John Stossel also wrote a critique of the Commonwealth Fund Study that you link to called "Another Bogus Report Card for U.S. Medical Care."

 

[Channahon]

I have read that Massachusetts, that was one of the first states to require everyone to have health insurance of some sort, kind of backfired, as the health care cost skyrocketed to everyone visiting for free health care, where they normally, might not have sought medical attention.

My brother in law and sister, who have worked all their lives, are victims of corporate downsizing. Now they have a monthly payment of over $800 per month for medical insurance. They are 62 and 58 years old. I haven't heard any candidate address this issue.

If Hilary gets in, with her plan, hold on to your wallets, and quite frankly, does it change anything for welfare receipents, who have never paid for anything???

 

[moreluck]

Channahon......I know you won't believe it, but $800 a month is cheap for medical coverage.

 

[DS]

Health Care Myths
from the Great White North

Here is a link on the myths about Canada health care check this out.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/O_Canada_KP.html​

great post beatupbrown...long read,but I learned a lot...Brett should read it.

 

[brazenbrown]

Competition gives us choices and those choices give us power!!

I'll have to agree with John Stossel's video display and the 5th one really brings it home!

If you want the government to put you on someone's shoulder and burp you like a baby then maybe you're not ready for taking on personal responsibility!

And that's what it's going to take to help us solve the health care issue, personal responsibility and competitiveness and anyone who is working at UPS should be aware of the later.

Just my honest opinion...

 

[cheryl]

Channahon......I know you won't believe it, but $800 a month is cheap for medical coverage.

Our health ins (in CA) costs much more than that and we're both under 50 and our daughter is on a separate policy...

 

[satellitedriver]

I could have quoted a lot of you about what you think about Canadas health care plan .If you are a citizen you get a health card. No cost to you to visit a doctor.No cost if you need surgery unless its cosmetic.
In rural areas it may be hard to find a doctor,but 99% of us live in cities where doctors are quite accessable.If you have a family doctor,you can usually get in the same day or the next,depending on your ailment.Most people just go to "walk in clinics"and yes you have to wait your turn.
My dad had a colostomy when he was around 45. 10 years later he had a double bypass operation.My mom had serious liver problems and basically spent the last year of her life in the hospital.My dad lived to 73 years old thanks to our health care system.I had a hemmoroid operation that made my life at ups a million times more bareable.There is something to be said for government health care,it seems to work .

What is the tax rate you pay for this "free healthcare"?
PAX

 

[Colorado]

I'm a new Freight driver with UPS for about a month now, and this is my first post with Brown Cafe.
Socialized healthcare would be a disaster for this country...at this point. I want somebody to close the borders and get all of the illegals out way before we even try to attempt this. If Hillary gets in, and I believe that unfortunately there is a good chance, immigration will be forgotten about for at least another 4 years.
The $100 billion estimate per year should have included some fine print. Such as...PER STATE.

Now, since we're on the subject of healthcare, I had no idea that UPS was such a left wing organization. Looking through upsers.com last weekend about heathcare options, I about fell off my chair and I'm still trying to pick up my jaw. They now offer healthcare to SAME SEX DOMESTIC PARTNERS AND THEIR DEPENDENTS! How anti-Christian socialist can a corporation get? Come on UPS! Get some backbone and stand up for yourself and the reasons why this country made you so great.
One of the reasons I took the job was for the benefits. Now I won't include myself with their healthcare. I'm not paying for that kind of lifestyle and beliefs. I guess I should have done some investigation about UPS before I even applied. Now I wonder if the P doesn't mean Parcel. My brother-in-law works for FedEx Freight. I'll have to ask him about their healthcare policy.

 

[beatupbrown]

Hi Cheryl I did some research on John Stossel here is some information I found on him.