You mean guys like Jackie Presser? TDU took the credit for that mobster. And when Carey took over what did he do? Put Jackie back to running a local. Don't misunderstand, I didn't hate Carey. He wasn't as clean as you think. There isn't a mob infestation in the Teamsters these days. In some other small scale unions it is still present. But as for Carey, any man that uses the TDU like a bitch is ok in my book.Remember back in history when teamsters actually had some nuts
Yes, that was when Ron Carey led the Teamsters against all the scum that stole and sold out to corporations and the Democratic Party a la Jimbo Hoffa and hall.
Contract news 3/8/2013 (Teamsters.com)
- Thread starter reydluap
- Start date
"Creative solutions" seems to be a weasle word used by corporate slime bags to sell you something you do not want or need. Sounds like the deals they make in congress to dress up cuts in medicare,etc as "fixing" Medicare. Or other wonderful "creative solutions" the ibt has bought like Sure Post where ups says "sure sure" we wont subcontract your work to the USPS. If this means what some of us think it means, we might need to do some "creative" voting or petitioning or recalling in the next couple of years!!
804 MOVING FORWARD
Active Member
Wherever did you get the idea that Carey put Presser back to running a local after he took office? Ron Carey was elected in December of 1991. Jackie Presser died in 1988.
I've got a question as I haven't gone through contract negotiations before, but when the final proposal is out between thhe company and union, how do we read it? Will it be online or at the union hall?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
In addition to those you mentioned you will receive a copy in the mail.
All we can do it's wait and see what happens now. There are so many lame duck locals that do the bare minimum . As a group we are very bad at representing ourselves as I saw first hand only a handful of Teamsters bother to vote . We need to make changes to our locals and then the international will follow. As the way things are going I don't hold high hopes no more article 22 jobs or full fine jobs inside being replaced and managers will work more with continuing harassment for production
I'm on the fence with wages for fulltimers. I don't want to lose money at all...but most of us make 55-105k a year. Do we really need to make more than that? While there were other issues with GM reorganizing you can't argue that greed didn't help doom the unions for Detroit. How much money does a truck driver really need to make? We make more than teachers, carpenters, most engineers, and some doctors. There's a balance there somewhere. I also feel like we shouldn't take a beating either in upcoming contracts. There's a way we can participate in the success of UPS. I'd be all for a bonus system like management gets. I'd also be ok with UPS switching to a matched 401k. The current trend with pensions is not good and sticking most of our eggs in the pension basket is ludicrous. At least with a 401k we have some control over it and it won't disappear when/if UPS goes tits up.
Brownslave688
You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
I agree drivers make a good living. Which is why all I think we should get is a 2.5-3.5% inflation raise. That's it just keep my salary what it is plus inflation every year.
With the way we have been printing money high inflation will hit us in the next ten years.
Inflation is sketchy. Even if we are in good times, the way the Gov does the numbers for inflation changes. It started out as a baseline of the most used and sold products and services the average household uses. One of them was the price of steak. But as the price of steak started to skyrocket, the changed it to pork. When pork went up it changed to hamburger. Now it's chicken. People started buying the cheaper meats because the Gov stopped calculating COLA on the baseline of steak, fuel, house payment, etc...they also started using rent instead of homeownership as part of the baseline. I really hate the way the Gov works sometimes...
Brownslave688
You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
They also don't use gas. I'm not talking about the inflation rate the government uses. I'm talking real inflation including everything. The info is out there. Just got to dig a little deeper.
They don't anymore. They used to. The point I was trying to make is the things that used to go into COLA figurings have been tampered with by the FED both Dem and Rep to lower the COLA. They've really hammered at it since the 70's. Great book you can look it up...It's called Worse Than You Think by Keith Quincy. He's a professor at Eastern Washington University and put together a very readable book about how the Gov has twisted away from being for the people. It's a really good read. I highly recommend it.
Brownslave688
You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
That's not actual inflation. That's how the government figures it.
Notice something odd about the chart for the last 100 years. All of a sudden in the 80's the large fluctuations stopped. I'd bet that's when they changed how they calculate inflation.
Thats when they quit using food and energy prices...they dont count..Just like sort and load time .or putting tape on an ARS package that someone just handed you.They must use UPS math when calculating inflation.
Bagels
Family Leave Fridays!!!
The problem with inflationary indexes is that they don't take into consideration real world costs. Consider a comparison in real world costs over the life of our last two contracts:
- The price of electricity has soared, especially out West. However, CFL bulbs -- which sold for an average of $12 each in the early 2000s -- typically cost the consumer about the same as a traditional light bulb but last several times longer & achieve 70-80% energy savings. And any household appliances that have been replaced will acheive significant energy savings -- as much as 90% for modern TVs and computer systems. Thus, the average household is (or should be) spending less on energy than they did before.
- We pay significantly less for more minutes on our mobile phones than we did ten years ago (just watch the text & data charges) -- and phones & networks have become sophisticated enough to replace our landlines. Thus, we pay less for communications.
- High speed Internet is more costly than the AOL dial-up most of us used, but the lack of need for a phone line makes up for the difference. And the Internet has replaced our needs for newspaper & magazine subscriptions, checks, stamps to mail out bills, etc. Internet purchases save us time, money & gas money. And the Internet provides us with free entertainment and premium paid options -- Netflix is less than the cost of two Blockbuster Nights was. The Internet also provides us with the tools to travel cheaper.
- The cost of many major purchases, such as appliances, TVs and computers, has plummeted.
- If you bought a home recently, or are renting an apartment, you're paying about the same - or less - as you would have in 2002. (Some exceptions apply.)
So while yes, we're paying more for food & gas, many of our other financial obligations have dropped. And while yes, cable has increased in cost, if you were paying $30/month for basic cable 10 years ago but $200/month for premium cable with NFL Sunday Ticket, HD, etc. today, you've increased your obligations. And with the transition to digital TV, antenna viewing is better than ever.
My point is... for those (FTers) who claim the $8+ raise they've received over the past two contracts is "barely keeping up with inflation," you're BSing yourself - and the problem is more likely your poor financial habits than anything else.
- The price of electricity has soared, especially out West. However, CFL bulbs -- which sold for an average of $12 each in the early 2000s -- typically cost the consumer about the same as a traditional light bulb but last several times longer & achieve 70-80% energy savings. And any household appliances that have been replaced will acheive significant energy savings -- as much as 90% for modern TVs and computer systems. Thus, the average household is (or should be) spending less on energy than they did before.
- We pay significantly less for more minutes on our mobile phones than we did ten years ago (just watch the text & data charges) -- and phones & networks have become sophisticated enough to replace our landlines. Thus, we pay less for communications.
- High speed Internet is more costly than the AOL dial-up most of us used, but the lack of need for a phone line makes up for the difference. And the Internet has replaced our needs for newspaper & magazine subscriptions, checks, stamps to mail out bills, etc. Internet purchases save us time, money & gas money. And the Internet provides us with free entertainment and premium paid options -- Netflix is less than the cost of two Blockbuster Nights was. The Internet also provides us with the tools to travel cheaper.
- The cost of many major purchases, such as appliances, TVs and computers, has plummeted.
- If you bought a home recently, or are renting an apartment, you're paying about the same - or less - as you would have in 2002. (Some exceptions apply.)
So while yes, we're paying more for food & gas, many of our other financial obligations have dropped. And while yes, cable has increased in cost, if you were paying $30/month for basic cable 10 years ago but $200/month for premium cable with NFL Sunday Ticket, HD, etc. today, you've increased your obligations. And with the transition to digital TV, antenna viewing is better than ever.
My point is... for those (FTers) who claim the $8+ raise they've received over the past two contracts is "barely keeping up with inflation," you're BSing yourself - and the problem is more likely your poor financial habits than anything else.
Brownslave688
You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
Wow way to pick out a couple things that cost less. Ill add very few people electric bills are lower than in 2002. Think about how many more electronic devices people have now days. The fact that you think prices haven't raised in 2 days tells me one of two things.
You are young and weren't living on your own then or u just have no sense of reality.
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
Bagels and brownslave, I think you are both right and wrong in different ways.
Yes, we definitely do spend more money now, then in the past. However, how far back do you want to go? Back in the day's people didn't have homes anywhere near as large as what they have now. Is that a necessity? People with homes didn't tend to have huge lawns and spend tons of money on fertilizer, water and lawn people to take care of lawns. People used to live near work. Many many people live 20+ miles away from work. That just didn't used to happen before. Brownslave is right, we have a lot more electronic equipment, 52" Tv's. multiple computers, routers, etc etc. But is this needed? I'll admit, I'm as guilty as anyone else in most of these areas (I do mow my own lawn though).
But.. many items that used to cost a lot are cheap. A 19" TV 10 years ago or 20 years ago vs now much cheaper now.. Except people don't buy 19" TV's now.
Most people unfortunately spend what they make. So it's never really enough.
Many things (esp food) has gone up recently.. But then again.. go back 80 years ago, it used to be 25% of the income went to food, now it's no where near that
Yes, we definitely do spend more money now, then in the past. However, how far back do you want to go? Back in the day's people didn't have homes anywhere near as large as what they have now. Is that a necessity? People with homes didn't tend to have huge lawns and spend tons of money on fertilizer, water and lawn people to take care of lawns. People used to live near work. Many many people live 20+ miles away from work. That just didn't used to happen before. Brownslave is right, we have a lot more electronic equipment, 52" Tv's. multiple computers, routers, etc etc. But is this needed? I'll admit, I'm as guilty as anyone else in most of these areas (I do mow my own lawn though).
But.. many items that used to cost a lot are cheap. A 19" TV 10 years ago or 20 years ago vs now much cheaper now.. Except people don't buy 19" TV's now.
Most people unfortunately spend what they make. So it's never really enough.
Many things (esp food) has gone up recently.. But then again.. go back 80 years ago, it used to be 25% of the income went to food, now it's no where near that
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