Contract news 3/8/2013 (Teamsters.com)

[Bagels]

Wow way to pick out a couple things that cost less. Ill add very few people electric bills are lower than in 2002. Think about how many more electronic devices people have now days. The fact that you think prices haven't raised in 2 days tells me one of two things.

You are young and weren't living on your own then or u just have no sense of reality.

I did not suggest that "prices haven't raised," nor am I cherry-picking. I am attempting to illustrate the difficulty in measuring personal inflation. The average American worker earns less in total compensation today than they did ten years ago, but the average UPS driver earns at least $20,000 more annually. Please don't confuse things like business class internet, NFL Sunday ticket, large data packages on smart phones & tablets, etc. as inflationary expenses, when they're really increases in discretionary spending yielded from steep wage increases well beyond personal inflation rates.

 

[Bagels]

Bagels and brownslave, I think you are both right and wrong in different ways.

Yes, we definitely do spend more money now, then in the past. However, how far back do you want to go? Back in the day's people didn't have homes anywhere near as large as what they have now. Is that a necessity? People with homes didn't tend to have huge lawns and spend tons of money on fertilizer, water and lawn people to take care of lawns. People used to live near work. Many many people live 20+ miles away from work. That just didn't used to happen before. Brownslave is right, we have a lot more electronic equipment, 52" Tv's. multiple computers, routers, etc etc. But is this needed? I'll admit, I'm as guilty as anyone else in most of these areas (I do mow my own lawn though).

But.. many items that used to cost a lot are cheap. A 19" TV 10 years ago or 20 years ago vs now much cheaper now.. Except people don't buy 19" TV's now.

Most people unfortunately spend what they make. So it's never really enough.

Many things (esp food) has gone up recently.. But then again.. go back 80 years ago, it used to be 25% of the income went to food, now it's no where near that

I don't disagree with you at all. I am merely attempting to point out the difficulty in determining personal inflation rates. I commonly read on these forums that drivers' pay has not kept up with inflation, which is not true; if pay had not kept up with personal inflation, drivers would be living an inferior lifestyle than they had a decade before. Instead, most people are enjoying many more luxuries, which is counter-intuitive to that statement.

 

[Brownslave688]

Wow way to pick out a couple things that cost less. Ill add very few people electric bills are lower than in 2002. Think about how many more electronic devices people have now days. The fact that you think prices haven't raised in 2 days tells me one of two things.

You are young and weren't living on your own then or u just have no sense of reality.

I did not suggest that "prices haven't raised," nor am I cherry-picking. I am attempting to illustrate the difficulty in measuring personal inflation. The average American worker earns less in total compensation today than they did ten years ago, but the average UPS driver earns at least $20,000 more annually. Please don't confuse things like business class internet, NFL Sunday ticket, large data packages on smart phones & tablets, etc. as inflationary expenses, when they're really increases in discretionary spending yielded from steep wage increases well beyond personal inflation rates.

Cost of living goes up period. By your logic electricity, my vehicle, washing machines, telephones, ect. Are all discretionary spending. No one should ever of gotten a raise to afford those things. We would bartering for things if u ran the world. Yes this is over the top but...

Every generation strives to have it better than the previous generation. It's what makes us special. The average worker over a 30 year careers should at least double their salary. Thy means I should be around 150k when I retire. Sound pretty nuts now but at one point 100k was a holy grail job. Now u habve Lineman truck drivers and oils rig guys making that much.

 

[Bagels]

Cost of living goes up period. By your logic electricity, my vehicle, washing machines, telephones, ect. Are all discretionary spending. No one should ever of gotten a raise to afford those things. We would bartering for things if u ran the world. Yes this is over the top but...

Every generation strives to have it better than the previous generation. It's what makes us special. The average worker over a 30 year careers should at least double their salary. Thy means I should be around 150k when I retire. Sound pretty nuts now but at one point 100k was a holy grail job. Now u habve Lineman truck drivers and oils rig guys making that much.

LOL, now who's perception of reality is off? Only 5% of American workers earn 100K or more (and 20% of all duel-income households).

And you're making a foolish argument. Personal inflation rate is a measure of the increase in cost to maintain a lifestyle. If I sell my modest suburban house, purchase a more expensive lakefront home & acquire a boat, I'm not longer maintaining that lifestyle. If I had previously made $50K but now make $80K, that $80K would've been sufficient to keep up with the increasing costs of my former lifestyle, but it may not be enough to keep pace with the increasing costs of my new lifestyle. And if I was a UPS driver and declared "our raises aren't keeping pace with inflation," it'd be completely false, as I made choices. They're my choices, and I'm entitled to them -- I'm not arguing this, as you seem to be. I'm arguing that poor financial decisions are the source of my woes.

But it doesn't really matter. My point was that personal inflation is difficult to measure in an ever changing world (and if you've studied economics, you'd realize this is fact, not opinion) for a variety of reasons, as noted above (technology obsoleting previous ways, 30-year mortgages, etc.) But it's irrefutable that the $8+ in raises we have received over the past two contracts is well beyond the pace of inflation, no matter what metric you use.

 

[brown_trousers]

I don't disagree with you at all. I am merely attempting to point out the difficulty in determining personal inflation rates. I commonly read on these forums that drivers' pay has not kept up with inflation, which is not true; if pay had not kept up with personal inflation, drivers would be living an inferior lifestyle than they had a decade before. Instead, most people are enjoying many more luxuries, which is counter-intuitive to that statement.

Maybe we should compare the cost of necessities of life then. Housing for example: how much did it cost to rent an apartment 10 yrs ago ago vs today? I can tell you in my area, rent has almost doubled in that ten year span.

 

[MenInBrown]

when UPS gave a 6 dollar raise over 6 years, they were only profiting about 1.5 billion...they are doing 3 times that now. so why not want a pay raise that is on par with that?

 

[rudy5150]

Ups is MORE FOCUSED on NUMBER CRUNCHING AND ITS STOCK rather than expanding its business and customer satisfaction. It could care less its employees UNION and COMPANY. Thats why morale at UPS is at its lowest level ever. This will lead to the downfall of BIG BROWN!

 

[Brownslave688]

LOL, now who's perception of reality is off? Only 5% of American workers earn 100K or more (and 20% of all duel-income households).

And you're making a foolish argument. Personal inflation rate is a measure of the increase in cost to maintain a lifestyle. If I sell my modest suburban house, purchase a more expensive lakefront home & acquire a boat, I'm not longer maintaining that lifestyle. If I had previously made $50K but now make $80K, that $80K would've been sufficient to keep up with the increasing costs of my former lifestyle, but it may not be enough to keep pace with the increasing costs of my new lifestyle. And if I was a UPS driver and declared "our raises aren't keeping pace with inflation," it'd be completely false, as I made choices. They're my choices, and I'm entitled to them -- I'm not arguing this, as you seem to be. I'm arguing that poor financial decisions are the source of my woes.

But it doesn't really matter. My point was that personal inflation is difficult to measure in an ever changing world (and if you've studied economics, you'd realize this is fact, not opinion) for a variety of reasons, as noted above (technology obsoleting previous ways, 30-year mortgages, etc.) But it's irrefutable that the $8+ in raises we have received over the past two contracts is well beyond the pace of inflation, no matter what metric you use.

I agree that our raises have kept up with inflation. Although I think that's about all they have done is keep up with inflation.

Your also talking about a ten year period with 2 recessions in it.

My argument is with the 20 plus year drivers that say we make plenty and don't need raises. That's easy to say when your kids are thru school and your mortgage for a similar house is half what a new drivers is.

 

[Bagels]

Maybe we should compare the cost of necessities of life then. Housing for example: how much did it cost to rent an apartment 10 yrs ago ago vs today? I can tell you in my area, rent has almost doubled in that ten year span.

Really? Because this source indicates that apartment rental prices are unchanged in the Spokane, WA area over the past ten years:
Spokane WA MSA Average Apartment Rental Rates

Several other sources indicate similar information, with the range in various quartiles unchanged over the past decade.

 

[Jones]

Really? Because this source indicates that apartment rental prices are unchanged in the Spokane, WA area over the past ten years:
Spokane WA MSA Average Apartment Rental Rates

Several other sources indicate similar information, with the range in various quartiles unchanged over the past decade.

You must be looking at it wrong...

 

[slantnosechevy]

You must be looking at it wrong...

He's drinking the Wall Street and Real Estate Kool-Aid that's spewed daily. Figures lie and liars figure.

 

[tomlb]

We, as a union, cannot continue to eat our own young and sell out yet-to-be-hired PT'ers any further. Having an $8.50/hr starting wage in a union shop is shameful enough - how lower can we stoop?

 

[tomlb]

Yes, you nailed that one!

 

[Jackburton]

You guy arguing over how UPS pay rate has or has not kept up with COLA, one thing I'd wager has, the average hours that an average driver works. When some drivers make over 100k and some make 60k, all top pay being generally the same, that's close to 30-35% more hours worked (OT adjusted). One thing I think we can all agree on, much like in life, you make choices to improve your life how you see fit, some are willing to sacrifice, some aren't. Take that how you will.