Contract proposals for 2018

[wide load]

You do know that this was also done in previous contracts?

Did you miss the point, or are you just trying to divert attention away from the assertion that there is a lack of trust in light of past "negotiations" and the perception of the status quo by many?

I understand the concern. There maybe a reason that new negotiators have been chosen. You already have a verbal commitment that transparency will be at the forefront. It way not seem much to some, but I've never heard that before. Not even in 97. Again, very early in the game. A wait and see approach might be the move.

 

[Article 3]

I understand the concern. There maybe a reason that new negotiators have been chosen. You already have a verbal commitment that transparency will be at the forefront. It way not seem much to some, but I've never heard that before. Not even in 97. Again, very early in the game. A wait and see approach might be the move.

There was great transparency in 97. The company hated it.

 

[Catatonic]

There was great transparency in 97. The company hated it.

Except Carey's motivation and intent.
He was 70 years behind his time.

 

[Jkloc420]

Except Carey's motivation and intent.
He was 70 years behind his time.

no fleas

 

[Article 3]

Except Carey's motivation and intent.
He was 70 years behind his time.

So he got the company up to speed on full time jobs since they were light yrs behind on that issue.
We were due for a strike because the company was begging for a fight with their incentive based compensation and offering us HMOs.
It was the best time in UPS history for a standoff.
Not so much today.

If you were not in operations you won't understand what solidarity meant to us thanks to abusive treatment of hourlies over the years.

 

[Catatonic]

So he got the company up to speed on full time jobs since they were light yrs behind on that issue.
We were due for a strike because the company was begging for a fight with their incentive based compensation and offering us HMOs.
It was the best time in UPS history for a standoff.
Not so much today.

If you were not in operations you won't understand what solidarity meant to us thanks to abusive treatment of hourlies over the years.

You don't think Non-hourly employees were treated any better do you?
UPS is a tough company to work for and expect 100% effort, 100% of the time.

Ask old-timers whether UPS was a better place to work pre-1997 or afterward?
We all know the answer.

 

[wide load]

You don't think Non-hourly employees were treated any better do you?
UPS is a tough company to work for and expect 100% effort, 100% of the time.

Ask old-timers whether UPS was a better place to work pre-1997 or afterward?
We all know the answer.

When did they go public? It was better before that day.

 

[Article 3]

When did they go public? It was better before that day.

After the strike.

 

[Article 3]

You don't think Non-hourly employees were treated any better do you?
UPS is a tough company to work for and expect 100% effort, 100% of the time.

Ask old-timers whether UPS was a better place to work pre-1997 or afterward?
We all know the answer.

I know they are treated better because when one of the management employees does or says something deserving termination they typically get moved to another building.
We get fired.
Yeah, management personnel have it better.
Much better in the long haul.

 

[Article 3]

Ask old-timers whether UPS was a better place to work pre-1997 or afterward?
We all know the answer.

Yes we do.

 

[Catatonic]

When did they go public? It was better before that day.

November 1999.
Preparation for going public and caring about employees started before the strike was over.
UPS Board and Management Committee had balked at going public because they knew it would change the company.
The '97 strike changed that and the belief that the drivers had chosen the Teamsters over the parental relationship with UPS, relieved anyone of any guilt and loyalty to drivers.
They 'screwed' UPS and in the process screwed themselves.
This chapter has not played itself out yet.
My being in Corporate at this time enabled me to see the end results for myself and other non-Union employees and the final end result for drivers is yet to come.
All about money now ... there is no UPS family.
It died on the picket lines of 1997.

 

[Catatonic]

I know they are treated better because when one of the management employees does or says something deserving termination they typically get moved to another building.
We get fired.
Yeah, management personnel have it better.
Much better in the long haul.

Lack of understanding and insight on your part.
How many drivers get their job back on the first offence?
Second offence?
Third offence?
Management gets one mulligan and then it's out the door.

 

[hyena]

Lack of understanding and insight on your part.
How many drivers get their job back on the first offence?
Second offence?
Third offence?
Management gets one mulligan and then it's out the door.

Management gets more then one mulligan. They get hundreds of screw ups , when they get caught it gets swept under the rug.

 

[Article 3]

Lack of understanding and insight on your part.
How many drivers get their job back on the first offence?
Second offence?
Third offence?
Management gets one mulligan and then it's out the door.

Now who is 70 yrs behind?
I know first hand of the double standard that you've posted about and by your own posts you validate my point.
The dishonest and violent actions of management only get them moved. RARELY are they fired. I've seen the corrupt actions of a couple labor managers (bold face lying) and there's no retribution from the company for those actions.
When you worked there Right was Right.
Now, it's only right if it furthers the company's agenda or screws hourly out of money they had coming.

 

[wide load]

November 1999.
Preparation for going public and caring about employees started before the strike was over.
UPS Board and Management Committee had balked at going public because they knew it would change the company.
The '97 strike changed that and the belief that the drivers had chosen the Teamsters over the parental relationship with UPS, relieved anyone of any guilt and loyalty to drivers.
They 'screwed' UPS and in the process screwed themselves.
This chapter has not played itself out yet.
My being in Corporate at this time enabled me to see the end results for myself and other non-Union employees and the final end result for drivers is yet to come.
All about money now ... there is no UPS family.
It died on the picket lines of 1997.

UPS screwed themselves. That which was led by greed.

 

[Article 3]

November 1999.
Preparation for going public and caring about employees started before the strike was over.
UPS Board and Management Committee had balked at going public because they knew it would change the company.
The '97 strike changed that and the belief that the drivers had chosen the Teamsters over the parental relationship with UPS, relieved anyone of any guilt and loyalty to drivers.
They 'screwed' UPS and in the process screwed themselves.
This chapter has not played itself out yet.
My being in Corporate at this time enabled me to see the end results for myself and other non-Union employees and the final end result for drivers is yet to come.
All about money now ... there is no UPS family.
It died on the picket lines of 1997.

As I posted before, UPS started the fight knowing that offering us hmos and asking us to have our raises be Performance Based (of course judged by the people who have to pay us) I could see the family situation you talk about is more like non-concentual incest.
It wasn't just the drivers, it was all of the hourly who finally had a chance to speak their mind about treatment they've received over the years.
The management (supervisors) today have typically been derived from the laziest hourly and now they're "in charge" with the attitude that they conquered the job requirements and therefore are above the rest of the galley slaves they worked beside or shall I say the other hourly that bailed them out daily when they were hourly themselves.

Offering the hourly an extra $1000/mo to cross the strike line screwed the hourly and the company knew it. Whether they took the deal or not it was the last nail in the coffin for pensions and the company knowingly screwed it down.

Yeah, they were close with the drivers before 97? This tells me that you spent little time in the trenches. Corporate jobs are great, but so out of touch with the average blue collar workers.

 

[InsideUPS]

Let's see, what the "hive" at the BrownCafe has to say.


Be realistic.

Don't be stupid.

It's an honest question, and I would like honest answers.


I'll start:


1) Maintain H&W.... and improvements.

2) Maintain our pension.... and improvements

(including a cost of living increase for retirees)

3) Eliminate 17-I from the Central Region supplement

-Bug-

The contract is worthless without individuals to enforce it and/or file grievances. Company intimidation on drivers is at an all time high in our building. For example, Management - "You put in for a 9.5 and I will use telematics to fire you within a week." Over 90-95% of the drivers will not file grievances on existing contract language. Part-timers could care less and often want out before their 3.5.. How many drivers and part-timers ask for help for over 70's?

The Excel UPS/IBT spreadsheet is already in place and has been decided. The only thing left is to move the number$ from one column to another.....

How about regaining some of the losses we have had in past contracts such as:

1) Full time driver progression rates back to 1 year instead of 4.

2) Part-time benefits after 6 months instead of 12 and 18 months (family)

3) Part-time wages back to pre-1985 rates which kept pace with full-time drivers (red circled individuals).

4) Contract lengths back to 3 years instead of 5.

5) Guaranteeing ALL (Past and Present) Central States Pension or UPS/IBT UPSers will receive their FULL pension for the entire life! NO hedge words...no selling out...no nothing. For Example...current UPS/IBT CS pension language:

"The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS

Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section

and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued

from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If

the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or

required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be

included in this offset"

This is basically BS language for CS full-timers (as well as other UPS Pension Funds in financial trouble)!!! It basically states that if CS goes "belly-up" or partially "belly-up".....(as allowed to or required to by law....which it most certainly will)....UPS does not have to "offset" or make-up the difference. This is the most egregious and misleading language we have for full-time UPSers.... Most of the full-timers I talk with firmly believe that UPS will "make up the difference" if their CS portion of the pension is reduced or eliminated. Basically....the more time you have as a driver in the CS plan....the more "screwed" you will be. Regardless....any pension under UPS can no longer be trusted... Just look what they did not their own supervisors recently...
UPS to Freeze Pensions for 70,000 Workers to Reduce Costs

You mentioned the elimination of 17-I above. Excellent idea.....one of the worst pieces of language anyone could ever allow in a contract.

The contract definitely needs strong language on company intimidation. Without it.....it does not matter what other language is written in the contract that appears to benefit the workers. It's getting to the point that we really need to organize a "Call in your Over 70's Day"!!! Perfectly legal and within our contractual rights.... It's a perfect way to express unity and solidarity without jeapordizing Union jobs.
In summary....the best contract in the world is useless if people are too afraid or unwilling to enforce it because of what the company may do to them. There is only a small percentage of UPSers willing to risk standing up to the company. Most are here at Brown Cafe.

 

[Article 3]

The contract is worthless without individuals to enforce it and/or file grievances. Company intimidation on drivers is at an all time high in our building. For example, Management - "You put in for a 9.5 and I will use telematics to fire you within a week." Over 90-95% of the drivers will not file grievances on existing contract language. Part-timers could care less and often want out before their 3.5.. How many drivers and part-timers ask for help for over 70's?

The Excel UPS/IBT spreadsheet is already in place and has been decided. The only thing left is to move the number$ from one column to another.....

How about regaining some of the losses we have had in past contracts such as:

1) Full time driver progression rates back to 1 year instead of 4.

2) Part-time benefits after 6 months instead of 12 and 18 months (family)

3) Part-time wages back to pre-1985 rates which kept pace with full-time drivers (red circled individuals).

4) Contract lengths back to 3 years instead of 5.

5) Guaranteeing ALL (Past and Present) Central States Pension or UPS/IBT UPSers will receive their FULL pension for the entire life! NO hedge words...no selling out...no nothing. For Example...current UPS/IBT CS pension language:

"The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS

Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section

and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued

from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If

the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or

required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be

included in this offset"

This is basically BS language for CS full-timers (as well as other UPS Pension Funds in financial trouble)!!! It basically states that if CS goes "belly-up" or partially "belly-up".....(as allowed to or required to by law....which it most certainly will)....UPS does not have to "offset" or make-up the difference. This is the most egregious and misleading language we have for full-time UPSers.... Most of the full-timers I talk with firmly believe that UPS will "make up the difference" if their CS portion of the pension is reduced or eliminated. Basically....the more time you have as a driver in the CS plan....the more "screwed" you will be. Regardless....any pension under UPS can no longer be trusted... Just look what they did not their own supervisors recently...
UPS to Freeze Pensions for 70,000 Workers to Reduce Costs

You mentioned the elimination of 17-I above. Excellent idea.....one of the worst pieces of language anyone could ever allow in a contract.

The contract definitely needs strong language on company intimidation. Without it.....it does not matter what other language is written in the contract that appears to benefit the workers. It's getting to the point that we really need to organize a "Call in your Over 70's Day"!!! Perfectly legal and within our contractual rights.... It's a perfect way to express unity and solidarity without jeapordizing Union jobs.
In summary....the best contract in the world is useless if people are too afraid or unwilling to enforce it because of what the company may do to them. There is only a small percentage of UPSers willing to risk standing up to the company. Most are here at Brown Cafe.

And add to that the worthless BA's that won't back the employees up when they do file.

 

[Catatonic]

As I posted before, UPS started the fight knowing that offering us hmos and asking us to have our raises be Performance Based (of course judged by the people who have to pay us) I could see the family situation you talk about is more like non-concentual incest.
It wasn't just the drivers, it was all of the hourly who finally had a chance to speak their mind about treatment they've received over the years.
The management (supervisors) today have typically been derived from the laziest hourly and now they're "in charge" with the attitude that they conquered the job requirements and therefore are above the rest of the galley slaves they worked beside or shall I say the other hourly that bailed them out daily when they were hourly themselves.

Offering the hourly an extra $1000/mo to cross the strike line screwed the hourly and the company knew it. Whether they took the deal or not it was the last nail in the coffin for pensions and the company knowingly screwed it down.

Yeah, they were close with the drivers before 97? This tells me that you spent little time in the trenches. Corporate jobs are great, but so out of touch with the average blue collar workers.

Glad to help y'all vent ... haters gonna hate.
I don't feel your pain because I'm at a concert at the Roxy with Galactic and waiting for Warren Haynes and Govt Mule.

 

[Article 3]

Glad to help y'all vent ... haters gonna hate.
I don't feel your pain because I'm at a concert at the Roxy with Galactic and waiting for Warren Haynes and Govt Mule.
View attachment 149549

Is that a copyright infringement?

BTW: we aren't the haters. We are the hated.