Contract talks !!!!!! STRIKE !!!!!!

[kingOFchester]

If the union where to go on strike, and I decided not too for financial reasons (PT can't save $ very well) would their be any consequences? How was it during the last strike I've been reading about? Was it only non-union employees working during that time?

I came to UPS long after the '97 strike. I do know several drivers that crossed the line and worked. I do not think anything would be done to part timers that choose to work. I have the feeling if you are a driver and other drivers see you cross the line, you may come back to your car and see your tires flat or a fresh scratch. Don't know tho, just speculation.

 

[anonymous4]

It's quite simple. Do you let others fight your battles for you? If you do, cross. If you have one iota of pride you don't cross.

You aren't the only part-timer at UPS who is struggling financially. You have plenty of time to get your things in order from now until then. You're making excuses already and there isn't one. Man up!

 

[kingOFchester]

Oh come on. How often do you have to bring 150 lb irregs to 3rd story apartments, anyway???
Get over yourself. Driving is not more physically demanding than most PT jobs, and thanks to EDD it is only marginally more mentally challenging.
Also, when you were PT you made more in INFLATION ADJUSTED dollars than today's PTers, possibly significantly so depending on how long ago you started.
If I had to choose between driving for 9 hours and loading for 3 hours, I would choose the first every single time. Even if the hourly rate was the same for each.

But good job falling into the Company's "Divide and conquer" scheme anyway.

Do you or have you been a driver? In life, what one may find difficult, someone else may find easy. My experience, preloaded 1.5 years and drove 4 years, driving is more physically demanding on MY body. As a preloader I loaded probably about 1000 packages a day. From the slide to no further then 40 feet and 5 feet at the least. So lets say that is an average of 25 feet, and I think I am being generous at that. So lets call that 25,000 feet lifting boxes. As a driver I average about 300 pieces on the routes that I cover. Use hand truck for maybe 20 pieces top on average. So 275 pieces have to make it from a truck to the front door of a customer. I am willing to be on average the doors are 150 feet plus away from truck. That comes 41,250 feet lifting boxes. As a driver we also have to contend with hills up driveways, upstairs, out the front of a truck, out the back of a truck. We do not have the luxury of walking straight from a slide/belt/boxline to the back of a shelf not contending with stepS. Some trucks do not have power steering and also an unnecessary high step. Don't get me started on the million of decisions we have to make on the fly everyday. Preload is no picnic. But I can tell you every preloader that I know that went from loading to driving are shocked how much more demanding driving is over preloading. This is my experience.

What was not added to my day:

Packages where the customer isn't home and I do not have the option to DR, need to be taken back to truck.
The 100+ pieces that I pick up everyday need to be put in the truck.
The irregs that the preload left on slide that I put in the back of the truck after my start time.
Having to search for packages in the truck that the prelaod hid from me, causing me to touch boxes more then once when digging through load searching for the illusive package.
Having to set up sections as I go causing me to once again move boxes.
Dealing with ice.
Dealing with snow.
Dealing with freezing rain.
Dealing with rain.
Dealing with tons of people.
Unloading air's at the air wall.
Unloading internationals at the air wall.
Unloading hazmats.
Unloading NSL.
Unloading NI3.
Unloading high values.
Being chased by dogs.
Dodging traffic.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

In my UPS career I have worked as a loader for 6 years (1.5 PT), in several different operations (centers) in two different bldgs. In addition, I have done everything else on the preloader except DA and irregs. I know how hard the job is-what it's like to come to a packed boxline or blown out belt, given 4 or 5 hrs to load 2000 pcs (which ain't happenin'!), with then ungrateful, insensitive, little caring drivers coming in whining about your load (although most shouldn't, as they will have also come up through the operation rather than be hired off the street, and thus can empathise). I can agree hub workers, especially preloaders, are grossly underpaid for a very thankless job.


In my experience, one works harder as a preloader, in that it is more physically demanding; it is probably why I lost weight as a preloader; I am more or less steady weight-wise as a driver. However, being a driver service provider is harder, in that in addition to the physical demands there is a WHOLE lot more as well. There is far more mental (and even emotional) aspects to the job than you are aware of (how many preloaders do things comparable to someone cutting you off on the road? Have you ever been chased by a dog in the hub?) A bad day for you will only last 3 hrs, along with whatever stress, frustration and anxieties that comes with it; I say 2 because the first 1/2hr to hour you don't really know how bad your day will be, and thus don't have to worry about it. We can know our day is trash 5-7 hours before our shift ends, and if we have a bad day with airs our day could be ruined before it really begins. You won't get fired for heavy bins that don't want to empty; you can get fired for not properly managing your airs.

There is so much more responsibility and concerns that a driver has that I am not sure you can fathom. Even as a driver helper one wouldn't know the mental puzzles the driver has going on in his head, the decisions and concerns he is figuring out; all you think you know is "the lazy bum is making ME deliver everything", without understanding why.

 

[1989]

Doesn't Obama care want to get rid of "Cadillac healthcare"? $90 a week might be the only answer around some of the laws. Did teamsters get a waiver to the law? If so, for how long can keep asking for a waiver?

 

[Asskicker]

Why aren't you exercising your contract rights and calling in for a helper with an overweight package? If everyone just followed the contract UPS would realize things could be not so cheery for them. Why do we let them abuse us by doing what they say and not whay we are required to do?

 

[Asskicker]

We shouldn't be attacking each other right now. Drivers have a RIDICULOUSLY tough job. But again the company pushes and pushes you to do more then the contract requires you to do. The fact of the matter is we are all human!!! IE throws out these ridiculous numbers and says we should be able to hit this mark. Why are you pushing yourselves harder then you have too. Unless you are working for bonus which is slowly fading away because it's not fair to everyone, why are you not taking your lunch every day? I always hear...because I don't want to get in that late. Well maybe you should all follow that rule for a month. If you all stuck together and all took your lunch, and all maybe came in later then you would if you didn't take lunch.....that's not slacking, or bad morals, or teaching your kids bad practices at work. It's your right as an employee, and if you don't all stick together that's where problems arise and one guy does a route faster then another and Management get on your case. WE all need to stick together and not argue who works harder. Just remember to vote, and if you don't agree with what we are offered the PLEASE VOTE NO!!! I haven't voted yes for a contract yet in 30 years.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Why aren't you exercising your contract rights and calling in for a helper with an overweight package? If everyone just followed the contract UPS would realize things could be not so cheery for them. Why do we let them abuse us by doing what they say and not whay we are required to do?

Where in the contract are we required to ask for help on our over 70's? Even better, quote, i.e. "copy and paste" where it says a driver is required to take a lunch, another popular of contention amongst union members. There are requirements in the contract, and then there are rights. We are not required to ask for help with over 70's, but we do have the right to do so. One is not obligated to excercise all of one's right, and there are many different reasons for one to decide not to, and given that you probably aren't privvy to those reasons, it is inappropriate to look down on or even despise those who exercise a different point of view than you. This, the unwillingness to see things from another's POV, that causes dissension within the ranks, rather than members excercusing all rights afforded them.

As for letting UPS 'abuse' us, remember this: 'If you enjoy what you do, you'll never "work" a day in your life.' Many, if not most of us enjoy what we do, and take the physical, mental, and sometimes even emotional strains that come with it. That is our decision, our right.

 

[Asskicker]

Ok, where do you get that I am despising or looking down on someone with a different point of view? I didn't say that. Lifting packages over 70 lbs by yourself IS abuse. UPS raised the weight limit to 150 lbs with the stipulation that you can call in for help with and over 70lb package. Same with the bulk cart drivers in the building...they are working alone which they shouldn't be. Your body...unless you are a power lifter...wasn't designed to lift this much weight especially every day, for hours a day (part-timers). And as far as most of you enjoying what you do...that's fantastic for you and the people you work with. You must have some pretty decent Management people. Where I work, and the hubs in our district all I hear from the time I come in is BITCH, BITCH, BITCH. Employees work exhausting hours doing exhausting labor, and especially full timers don't get a lot of family time because of it. Don't know why you got so defensive. I'm just saying there are "rights" if you will, that you can practice and don't. And by the way if you reread my post I did say "rights".

 

[UPS Preloader]

Why aren't you exercising your contract rights and calling in for a helper with an overweight package? If everyone just followed the contract UPS would realize things could be not so cheery for them. Why do we let them abuse us by doing what they say and not whay we are required to do?

Like I posted the other day. "We are our own worst enemies".

 

[brown_trousers]

Do you or have you been a driver? In life, what one may find difficult, someone else may find easy. My experience, preloaded 1.5 years and drove 4 years, driving is more physically demanding on MY body. As a preloader I loaded probably about 1000 packages a day. From the slide to no further then 40 feet and 5 feet at the least. So lets say that is an average of 25 feet, and I think I am being generous at that. So lets call that 25,000 feet lifting boxes. As a driver I average about 300 pieces on the routes that I cover. Use hand truck for maybe 20 pieces top on average. So 275 pieces have to make it from a truck to the front door of a customer. I am willing to be on average the doors are 150 feet plus away from truck. That comes 41,250 feet lifting boxes. As a driver we also have to contend with hills up driveways, upstairs, out the front of a truck, out the back of a truck. We do not have the luxury of walking straight from a slide/belt/boxline to the back of a shelf not contending with stepS. Some trucks do not have power steering and also an unnecessary high step. Don't get me started on the million of decisions we have to make on the fly everyday. Preload is no picnic. But I can tell you every preloader that I know that went from loading to driving are shocked how much more demanding driving is over preloading. This is my experience.

What was not added to my day:

Packages where the customer isn't home and I do not have the option to DR, need to be taken back to truck.
The 100+ pieces that I pick up everyday need to be put in the truck.
The irregs that the preload left on slide that I put in the back of the truck after my start time.
Having to search for packages in the truck that the prelaod hid from me, causing me to touch boxes more then once when digging through load searching for the illusive package.
Having to set up sections as I go causing me to once again move boxes.
Dealing with ice.
Dealing with snow.
Dealing with freezing rain.
Dealing with rain.
Dealing with tons of people.
Unloading air's at the air wall.
Unloading internationals at the air wall.
Unloading hazmats.
Unloading NSL.
Unloading NI3.
Unloading high values.
Being chased by dogs.
Dodging traffic.

I've been on both sides of this equation. I find driving to be more demanding, but only because it lasts 9-10 hrs a day, unlike preloading which was 4 hours maximum.

but... I worked harder on my 3.5hrs as a preloader, than I do my first 3.5hrs as a driver. So whether its part-time or full-time driving, I will say YES, a preloader works just as hard as a driver for that 3.5 hour window!

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Dude,the body is designed to carry heavy loads of weight; maybe not for 30 years, but then that is why that stipulation was added in the contract. However, for whatever reason, I may choose not to exercise it. Maybe getting home at 7:00 vs 9:00 is reason enough not to call and wait for a supv for two hours I am capable of doing myself. Maybe my relationship with my customers is more important so I'd rather not make them wait for that important machinery they want just so i can make a point to UPs that I don't have to "take the abuse". I signed up for the job; why would I complain? And those who feel like me, why would they complain.

When you ask "Why would u do this" you are asking me to defend my reasons. I've given a few, and I am pretty sure if you have ever asked that questions others have, too. Contrary to the post above, just because I disagree does not make me the enemy. We are united, not uniform.

 

[Asskicker]

Again I must say...when did I say you were the enemy? And just for the record I don't know what year you started, but when I was hired I signed up for a job where the weight of a package could not exceed 50 lbs. That is what I signed up for. Then it was raised in a contract to 70 lbs. Then it was raised in a contract to 150 lbs. So it is an issue to those of us who did not sign up to have to be in a situation by ourselves to lift up to 150 lbs. Your absolutely entitled to your point of view and that's where this website comes in. We should see others points of view and consider everyone's job when voting on a contract. We shouldn't argue about who's job is harder. We could go on for hours arguing points about our jobs that SUCK! You're very defensive. And we aren't united that's the problem, and just what the company tries to do every contract. Divide and conquer!!

 

[browned_out]

The jump in weight to 150 pounds was never bargained into a contract. Ups after raising the weight to 70 pounds through a new contract, jumped the weight to 150 in response to match Fed Ex. After much protest the union and the company came up with the langauge to support the new weight limit. (being able to call for assitance, new dollys that could lay on the rear bumper-you know the heavy duty aluminum ones. Also the over 70 stickers and highlite tape.)

 

[orangeman]

The company is surely montitoring this site, and I'll bet, putting together an algorithm to weight the mood of the membership with regard to this contract as reflected by these posts... I hope we all consider that, like during our delivery day, big brother is watching here as well. Beware as you post.

 

[Notcool]

What a funny thread.

This whole $90 figure is a joke. No need to even talk about it, it isn't going to happen.

hall doesn't control the contract. The membership does. I could careless what he negotiates because i'll be voting NO for any contract that doesn't contain very, very strong language in regards to harassment and performance standards.

As for all the PT newbies crying about their jobs inside, know your role. Almost every single package car and feeder driver was in your shoes at one point and probably for much longer. Yes, you are underpaid for the job you do inside. However, you do not outwork the average package car driver. Moving boxes 2-12ft from a slide into a truck or vice versa is absolutely nothing. Try delivering that 150lb irreg that you had to push end over end into the back of the truck to a 3rd story apartment with no elevator. Then come back on these forums and tell me how tough your 3.1 hour small sort job is.

7 years loading on reload still going. How long did you load? Looks like I am not even close to driving
People talk tough online. Go up to a loader in the hub and tell them to stop crying LOL

 

[PT Car Washer]

hahahhaaha pushing a 150 overweight irregular end over end and then up 3 set of stairs. Wow your smart!

Really. How many times a day does that happen?

 

[ferndog039]

Just attended Teamster Rally at the Ontario Convention Center, here in Southern California on Saturday. Guest speaker hall said we are not going to give in on this ridiculous proposal. And the 3000 plus Teamsters that showed up totally agreed. So we will see what happens. But I think All Teamsters will stick together, just like in 1997.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The jump in weight to 150 pounds was never bargained into a contract. Ups after raising the weight to 70 pounds through a new contract, jumped the weight to 150 in response to match Fed Ex. After much protest the union and the company came up with the langauge to support the new weight limit. (being able to call for assitance, new dollys that could lay on the rear bumper-you know the heavy duty aluminum ones. Also the over 70 stickers and highlite tape.)

The weight limit at Ground is 200.

 

[iruhnman630]

Really. How many times a day does that happen?

Hopefully never. To this day, I have only refused to make 1 overweight delivery. It was an entertainment center (140lbs) to a third floor apartment. The girl moving in there was unwilling to help carry it up.

She got it the next day when her boyfriend was home.