Dark day in my center

[Overpaid Union Thug]

BAU, I see your point,but least we forget the whole purpose of a business is to make money(profit). I could careless if UPS makes 20 billion in profit. Thats the good ol american way. Yes, we contribute to that profit,but the real question is do you fell you are adequately compensated for your work? Be honest. If you are, than you have no problem of UPS making billions in profit. Least we forget, On top of what we make now, UPS pays another 214 a week for our pension to the teamsters. The reason I say this is because if you havent noticed, company funded pension are going the way of the dinosaur. Many are underfunded and going under. Its not UPS s fault. Many or all companys are turning to the 401ks as your only retirement which is smart on their part and yours. So actually, we are fortunate, two pension plans if you(the employee) plans it right. Another great benefit, Insurance(UPS pay another 200 plus a week on that), Im in virgina so it could vary,but we do not have to pay any premium out of pocket, expenses. Yes , we have deductables but thats it. I say all this, because I ( and this is my opinion) think we are fairly compensated for our work. Does UPS make mistakes? PAS/EDD, etc,etc. yes. but, I believe it has more sucesses(which I think you agree) that many of us overlook. The proof of that, is that they are making a profit. Thats what being in business is all about. Bottom line. I have said this before we are like the mom and pop store, we have service but not a competitive price. If we could have service and price(the one,two punch) we would definetly kill the competition. Isnt that what walmart did, not much service though, but they had price. In closing, I believe a Pay freeze for all levels(mgt and hourly) ,the pt would not be included in the freeze. Have the monies that are saved and strictly desinate for rate reduction or stablization. Our future(UPS's) here is at stake. Lets be proactive instead of reactive. For once Id like to give my customers a break on the rate increases. ps sorry for such a long post.

I feel that we are compensated very well. Well, everyone except new part-timers. But everyone else surely is. That is why I stated that the huge pay raises should stop. I realize how much money UPS pays into our pensions as well as other things. That actuually boosts my point that despite all the money they compensate us with they are STILL able to post record profits. So the excuse that our union wages are the cuase for the rates being higher is just not believable to me. With that said....if we keep getting these huge raises then we will reach the point where that could be true. I don't want to see that happen.

 

[constructively dissatisfi]

I would look at it that way too if UPS wasn't reporting record profits every year. And doing so all while spending millions on PAS/EDD, building news sate of the art hubs, and creating thousand of new full-time jobs. I do agree that these huge raises should stop because in the long run it will catch up to UPS. They'd have to REALLY, REALLY break some profit records in order to keep profiting at all. But now....I'm not buying it. I just don't see how our wages are dictating the higher rates. Plus...if it was really that bad then UPS wouldn't have agreed to it during contract negotiations all these years. Even with a fear of a strike a company isn't going to agree to paying wages that will cripple it's profits. I'm not business expert. So I may be wrong but I say these things because that's how I see it from my perspective of just being an average joe.

You seem to have a very limited grasp of microeconomics. Spending money on things like state of the art hubs, PAS/EDD, etc. is necessary for UPS to provide service with fewer people. The only POSSIBLE way for UPS to pay hourly rates higher than our competitors and stay in business is if those employees do more than our competitors employees. Our employees working harder is part of this and having better technology is also part of it.

 

[rushfan]

May I say the obvious.....It's always a dark day in the center....what color do we wear.....ba da dum!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

You seem to have a very limited grasp of microeconomics. Spending money on things like state of the art hubs, PAS/EDD, etc. is necessary for UPS to provide service with fewer people. The only POSSIBLE way for UPS to pay hourly rates higher than our competitors and stay in business is if those employees do more than our competitors employees. Our employees working harder is part of this and having better technology is also part of it.

Again...even with our high wages (hourly and salary) UPS is still able to post record profits. That's really all that needs to be said. It doesn't take an expert in "microeconomics" to understand. Just common sense.

 

[satellitedriver]

The Post Office is union... But the post office does not have investors screaming for proffit or a CEO ESKREWING the company...

The US Postal Service is mandated to exist in the Constitution. UPS does not have that luxury.

 

[WagonAngle]

I'd say our constitutional footing is just as good as the USPS's. Section I, article 8 gives Congress the power to establish post offices. The ninth and tenth amendments give private industry the right to conduct the same business. If anything, I'd say the post office is optional.

 

[maybrown]

They don't care about profit at Postal Service because they know we pay taxes to support them. We should have 2 Post Offices.

 

[constructively dissatisfi]

I would look at it that way too if UPS wasn't reporting record profits every year. And doing so all while spending millions on PAS/EDD, building news sate of the art hubs, and creating thousand of new full-time jobs. I do agree that these huge raises should stop because in the long run it will catch up to UPS. They'd have to REALLY, REALLY break some profit records in order to keep profiting at all. But now....I'm not buying it. I just don't see how our wages are dictating the higher rates. Plus...if it was really that bad then UPS wouldn't have agreed to it during contract negotiations all these years. Even with a fear of a strike a company isn't going to agree to paying wages that will cripple it's profits. I'm not business expert. So I may be wrong but I say these things because that's how I see it from my perspective of just being an average joe.

If you want to share in the profits you should buy the stock. If you want a job that pays more you should go look for one elsewhere. The fact that the company makes profits doesn't mean the job you do is worth more.

 

[constructively dissatisfi]

Here is a recipe I learned along time ago.
How to boil a frog.
Never place a frog directly into a pot of hot water. It will jump out.
Place the frog in a pot of room temp water and turn on the heat at a very low heat.
The frog relaxes and enjoys the bath.
Slowly turn up the heat and the frog justs keeps relaxing.
By the time the water hits boiling, the frog is unable to jump out of the pot and you have a boiled frog.
This has no real direct reference to your post, but your avatar reminded me of the recipe.
Actually, it does have an indirect reference to your post, but I will just let you stew on it for awhile.

Congratulations satellitedriver. Did you just find Google or something?

 

[1989]

If you want to share in the profits you should buy the stock. If you want a job that pays more you should go look for one elsewhere. The fact that the company makes profits doesn't mean the job you do is worth more.

Tell that to a baseball player

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

If you want to share in the profits you should buy the stock. If you want a job that pays more you should go look for one elsewhere. The fact that the company makes profits doesn't mean the job you do is worth more.

I didn't ask for a job that pays more. Nor did I ask for a share of the profits (I do buy stock though). Nor did I say that the job is worth more because UPS makes profits, but obviously someone did. The IBT and UPS maybe? I mean...they were the ones that negotiated and agreed on our wages.

 

[Brownnblue]

Tell that to a baseball player

Actually, a better example might be the National Hockey League, but your point is well taken.

 

[area43]

I feel that we are compensated very well. Well, everyone except new part-timers. But everyone else surely is. That is why I stated that the huge pay raises should stop. I realize how much money UPS pays into our pensions as well as other things. That actuually boosts my point that despite all the money they compensate us with they are STILL able to post record profits. So the excuse that our union wages are the cuase for the rates being higher is just not believable to me. With that said....if we keep getting these huge raises then we will reach the point where that could be true. I don't want to see that happen.

What is the whole point of having a business is to make a PROFIT. UPS has to take in account of higher labor and making a profit when deciding a rate hike increase(granite their are other factors,but these are the two Im focusing on). When labor goes up UPS must raise the shipping rates to off set the labor increase, plus make a profit. Why, because thats capitalism. What s so hard to understand about that? That s two factors that contribute to the rate hikes. BAU, I believe higher labor cost is one of the contributing factors of our rates being higher, no question.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

What is the whole point of having a business is to make a PROFIT. UPS has to take in account of higher labor and making a profit when deciding a rate hike increase(granite their are other factors,but these are the two Im focusing on). When labor goes up UPS must raise the shipping rates to off set the labor increase, plus make a profit. Why, because thats capitalism. What s so hard to understand about that? That s two factors that contribute to the rate hikes. BAU, I believe higher labor cost is one of the contributing factors of our rates being higher, no question.

Again...when I company posts record profits they don't have a legitimate gripe about the wages they pay. That's not hard to understand either. Especially when they took part in negotiating the wages. If UPS was to lower their rates to equal our competion's, or even slightly lower, we'd still be gaining record profits. So, since they are keeping the rates higher than the competition that tells me two things. 1) That they are just wanting to make more money and I totally understand that because I also understand that the purpose of a business is to profit. 2) That our service must be that much better if we continue to have higher rates than our competition, yet, we still rule the market. Another good point I'd like to make is that I think our rates would be just as high even if we weren't compensated so well. Why? Because of both 1) and 2) above.

 

[area43]

Again...when I company posts record profits they don't have a legitimate gripe about the wages they pay. That's not hard to understand either. Especially when they took part in negotiating the wages. If UPS was to lower their rates to equal our competion's, or even slightly lower, we'd still be gaining record profits. So, since they are keeping the rates higher than the competition that tells me two things. 1) That they are just wanting to make more money and I totally understand that because I also understand that the purpose of a business is to profit. 2) That our service must be that much better if we continue to have higher rates than our competition, yet, we still rule the market. Another good point I'd like to make is that I think our rates would be just as high even if we weren't compensated so well. Why? Because of both 1) and 2) above.

I disagree on the company not having a legitimate gripe about the wages they pay when making a profit. The competition growth is growing faster than ours. UPS is making a profit,but is losing ground because of its agreement on the labor side. Dont get me wrong, I support the union as well as the company. I believe, as an employee we need both. Back on subject. We rule the market that is correct. Let me use this analogy to help you better understand. The Glacier, !)the glacier is our customer base - huge, been their along time. 2)the sun and ocean is the competition. Our massive customer base has sustained us so far, but the melting pursist and I believe it will get worse. What we need is more layers of ice. Dont you see that the glacier is struggling. Were losing more ice than were gaining(growth is weak,but it does equal profit). I guess it all boils down to your view on the future of UPS. I have a more worried(pessimistic) view. I believe we should take drastic measures now, which would be lowering operating cost even though we show a profit. It appears you have a more positive outlook on UPS's future. Im just tring to avoid a problem that might be coming, I hope you agree. Lets take a freeze now, stablize rates, have even bigger record profits and body slam the competition by under cutting them. Lets take a more aggresive approach. After the competition has been crushed, then will go after the higher wages, better insurance,etc etc.

 

[moreluck]

OK, now you just made me want a Sno-Cone !!

 

[Coldworld]

I would like to add a couple of things here. First, there have been times where fedex has cut our prices by 50%...is it me or does this scream lawsuit. Other companies sue when competion undercuts their prices by a certain percent, so has anyone heard of ups doing this. Second, there is talk of cutting expenses to keep more competitive, great idea, lets start with injuries, and part-time turnover...and auto accidents, between those three ups probably spends tens of millions a year....money that could be used for discounts, or whatever. Ups can only cut expenses so much, everyone on this thread has said that ups isnyt growing...untrue. Look at the freight, and international...both doing very well. NDA is always up quarter after quarter. Saleleads have nore than tripled since feb. Look on upsers.com for how many million new packages that is. I think that ups has done very well in the last 10 years against fedex onslaught....its nice to know that MANY of our customers have come back to us, that should say something about our drivers and service. We are holding back dhl, at least in my neck of the woods, and we are making huge gains in their backyard...international. I think ups needs to purchase a company that would help both logistics, domestic and international...something like tnt, or an exel type of company. I also think that ups needs to look at employee relations and realize that you cant always treat your people like **** and expect them to do things like saleleads, etc. I know this business is cutthroat, but management also has a duty to protect our volume, by not messing with pickup times, delivery times etc, etc.Not by following around drivers who are working hard, but maybe going out to customers to see how their business is doing, interacting with people. Something that I have seen on my route as of late is fedex ground getting out to the area earlier...while we are out there much later...because management wants to cut our start time by 20 minutes. these are the things that kick us in the ass down the line, but nobody wants to hear about it...especially management. Why is labor relations so bad at ups. This is the first step to kicking fedex ass off the map.Why is saying "great job", or "thank you" so hard for management to do.I really dont know what to think of all his, a company like ups really shouldnt be run like this..with all of the micromanaging, harassment(hourly and management). If we all could get on the same page, I think alot could be accomplished. Ups is lucky to have drivers like they have, if they didnt ups would be way worse off.

 

[westsideworma]

Post Office is union, but not Teamster.

Part timers have not been left behind by their union.

wow, I'd love to have started at 13-14/hr here. They're within cents of their fulltimers....amazing.

We don't work any less harder than the USPS part timers thats for sure (well the bunch of us that does show up to work)

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I would like to add a couple of things here. First, there have been times where fedex has cut our prices by 50%...is it me or does this scream lawsuit. Other companies sue when competion undercuts their prices by a certain percent, so has anyone heard of ups doing this. Second, there is talk of cutting expenses to keep more competitive, great idea, lets start with injuries, and part-time turnover...and auto accidents, between those three ups probably spends tens of millions a year....money that could be used for discounts, or whatever. Ups can only cut expenses so much, everyone on this thread has said that ups isnyt growing...untrue. Look at the freight, and international...both doing very well. NDA is always up quarter after quarter. Saleleads have nore than tripled since feb. Look on upsers.com for how many million new packages that is. I think that ups has done very well in the last 10 years against fedex onslaught....its nice to know that MANY of our customers have come back to us, that should say something about our drivers and service. We are holding back dhl, at least in my neck of the woods, and we are making huge gains in their backyard...international. I think ups needs to purchase a company that would help both logistics, domestic and international...something like tnt, or an exel type of company. I also think that ups needs to look at employee relations and realize that you cant always treat your people like **** and expect them to do things like saleleads, etc. I know this business is cutthroat, but management also has a duty to protect our volume, by not messing with pickup times, delivery times etc, etc.Not by following around drivers who are working hard, but maybe going out to customers to see how their business is doing, interacting with people. Something that I have seen on my route as of late is fedex ground getting out to the area earlier...while we are out there much later...because management wants to cut our start time by 20 minutes. these are the things that kick us in the ass down the line, but nobody wants to hear about it...especially management. Why is labor relations so bad at ups. This is the first step to kicking fedex ass off the map.Why is saying "great job", or "thank you" so hard for management to do.I really dont know what to think of all his, a company like ups really shouldnt be run like this..with all of the micromanaging, harassment(hourly and management). If we all could get on the same page, I think alot could be accomplished. Ups is lucky to have drivers like they have, if they didnt ups would be way worse off.

More good points Coldworld. You touched on what I should have which is that people are saying that we aren't growing. It's absurd to think that. I think the reason is that those people see FedEx Ground and DHL taking on so much volume but what they don't understand is that the whole market is growing and the we are taking on much more volume year after year. Granted....we could be getting much more volume if it weren't for them but the fact is that we are still gaining more and more volume year after year despite the fact that FedEx Ground and DHL are growing too. So, it's not like we are hurting for work and having to pay high wages is keeping UPS from profiting. I honestly believe our rates would still be higher than our competition even if were paid less.

 

[area43]

I disagree on the company not having a legitimate gripe about the wages they pay when making a profit. The competition growth is growing faster than ours. UPS is making a profit,but is losing ground because of its agreement on the labor side. Dont get me wrong, I support the union as well as the company. I believe, as an employee we need both. Back on subject. We rule the market that is correct. Let me use this analogy to help you better understand. The Glacier, !)the glacier is our customer base - huge, been their along time. 2)the sun and ocean is the competition. Our massive customer base has sustained us so far, but the melting pursist and I believe it will get worse. What we need is more layers of ice. Dont you see that the glacier is struggling. Were losing more ice than were gaining(growth is weak,but it does equal profit). I guess it all boils down to your view on the future of UPS. I have a more worried(pessimistic) view. I believe we should take drastic measures now, which would be lowering operating cost even though we show a profit. It appears you have a more positive outlook on UPS's future. Im just tring to avoid a problem that might be coming, I hope you agree. Lets take a freeze now, stablize rates, have even bigger record profits and body slam the competition by under cutting them. Lets take a more aggresive approach. After the competition has been crushed, then will go after the higher wages, better insurance,etc etc.

Dude(BAU) I forgot the 3 part of my Glacier analogy,3)UPS is "Jack Frost". The up coming winter forcast calls for very little precipation(snow fall). More, that was great, "snow cones" lol that was a real ice breaker. By the way what is you favorite flavor? Oh, and you to bau.