Do you believe UPS should be reported to OSHA for not supplying water correctly nor adequately to you and your coworkers? ( On Topic Only Please)

[zubenelgenubi]

I’m curious why adults think a company has to provide them with water other than from a faucet or water fountain, ice yes, but why bottled water?

It has to be made available where you are working. I don't know why people are having trouble with this. The regs don't say "unless you employ adults". If you are building a house, the company you work for can't say we have water at our office 30 miles away, they have to make the water available where you are working. If they can't do that, you are free to go wherever you need to in order to get water. You are free to bring water if you choose, but that doesn't obsolve the company of their responsibility.

 

[Integrity]

In that case, they need to supply bottled water until the issue is fixed. But, most places I have been to have multiple filtered fountains.

View attachment 392387

I have seen these. Excellent fountains when they work.

IMO Still doesn’t meet the requirements for water for the drivers.

 

[Integrity]

He doesn't know what he is talking about.

But I do. You just disagree. That’s fine.

UPS did not decide to supply bottled water as their means of abiding by the law.

Didn’t say they did. Said in my building UPS decided to provide single use bottled water as the means of providing water. There are pallets and pallets of it available to all the employees.

UPS does not tell OSHA how they are going to supply water, like he thinks happens.

Didn’t say UPS told OSHA anything.

I'm sure his building has water fountains. OSHA regulations met.

The building has water fountains. IMO A building can have water fountains and still be in violation.

UPS just decides to "also" supply bottled water. Mainly for production issues.

Disagree.

They can cease to supply bottled water at any time and still be compliant with the law, no matter what he thinks. There is no interpretation of the law, like he thinks there is.

Disagree.

UPS did not decide to supply bottled water as their means of satisfying the law, and thus must continue to supply bottled water. They can stop at any time and still be within the law, as long as the water fountains are functional.

Disagree.

 

[Integrity]

It has to be made available where you are working. I don't know why people are having trouble with this. The regs don't say "unless you employ adults". If you are building a house, the company you work for can't say we have water at our office 30 miles away, they have to make the water available where you are working. If they can't do that, you are free to go wherever you need to in order to get water. You are free to bring water if you choose, but that doesn't obsolve the company of their responsibility.

Well said.

It seems we clearly agree about UPS responsibility in the area.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Well said.

It seems we clearly agree about UPS responsibility in the area.

On one hand, I think It's important enough an issue that UPS needs to be pressured to do something about it or make it clear that people can break trace if they need to get water without fear of reprisal. It's the fear that they might get into trouble, which UPS encourages, that causes people to take unnecessary risk. And since we've already had a death and who knows how many other heat injuries, it's clear something needs to change.

On the other hand, I'm just as concerned that people have been fired for buying drinks on the clock. That's the sort of thing that causes people to take risks, so it would be wise to put the screws to UPS over those firings as at least contributing to heat related deaths and injuries.

 

[Fido]

In that case, they need to supply bottled water until the issue is fixed. But, most places I have been to have multiple filtered fountains.

View attachment 392387

I love those I see them at a lot of business suite buildings now.

 

[upschuck]

Let’s just leave it as we disagree on this interpretation.

Good?

Not really, words have some sort of meaning, and I'm trying to figure out how you come to a different conclusion. Or are you just being obstinate.

 

[Trucker Clock]

You are free to bring water if you choose, but that doesn't obsolve the company of their responsibility.

Here's where we disagree. I'm not going back to read all your posts, so I don't know if you are part of the group that wants UPS to supply bottled water to drivers or not to satisfy the law.

For the others, the consensus seems to be that for UPS to abide by the law, they need to supply drivers with bottled water. This is incorrect. They need to supply drivers with water. The water fountains are at the buildings to supply employees with water. Fill your jugs with this free water before you leave. So now this water is not 30 miles away. It is in the back of your truck.

If you have an unexpected long day and did not bring enough water with you, feel free to drive somewhere and fill your jugs again. Any restaurant will fill them for you free of charge. You should only need to do this once on a particularly long day, and this should not happen very often. Do it everyday and you should realize that you need to bring more with you. UPS will not have any issues if you have to do this occasionally. Make it a habit, and yes, there will be issues.

Or do you want UPS to deliver you water throughout the day? I don't know, maybe every half hour or so?

I will not argue the fact that you may have a case to have UPS supply you with the water jugs. This would be a separate issue, although I'm sure there is already a ruling from OSHA somewhere.

the company you work for can't say we have water at our office 30 miles away

The water is not 30 miles away. UPS supplied you with water to take with you and keep in your truck. If you're too cheap to buy your own water jugs, file a grievance to have UPS pay for your jugs. I have no issue with this, win or lose.

But, they are supplying you with water, plain and simple. If you choose not to take the free water with you, well, that's on you.

And for those buildings that supply water bottles, take them with you also. The point is that UPS does not have to supply water bottles to satisfy the law unless the water fountains are not potable. They have to supply water.

 

[Integrity]

Not really, words have some sort of meaning, and I'm trying to figure out how you come to a different conclusion. Or are you just being obstinate.

No, I am not just being obstinate.

I am willing to discuss this matter fully. I think we can be more focused and come do some sort of understanding, even while disagreeing, but I think we should at this point take it up in private conversation.

If you are willing let me know.

 

[Trucker Clock]

Straight from a law firm.

Are employers required to provide drinking water to employees?​

Under federal law, employers must provide potable water that employees can consume. Potable water includes tap water that is safe to drink.

Employers are not allowed to make employees pay for water that is provided. If potable water is provided, an employer does not have to offer bottled water.

Are employers required to provide drinking water to employees? | Petrillo & Goldberg Law

Under federal law, employers must provide potable water that employees can consume. Potable water includes tap water that is safe to drink. Employers are not allowed to make employees pay for water that is provided. If potable water is provided, an employer does not have to offer bottled water...

www.petrilloandgoldberg.com

 

[oldngray]

Straight from a law firm.

Are employers required to provide drinking water to employees?​

Under federal law, employers must provide potable water that employees can consume. Potable water includes tap water that is safe to drink.

Employers are not allowed to make employees pay for water that is provided. If potable water is provided, an employer does not have to offer bottled water.

Are employers required to provide drinking water to employees? | Petrillo & Goldberg Law

Under federal law, employers must provide potable water that employees can consume. Potable water includes tap water that is safe to drink. Employers are not allowed to make employees pay for water that is provided. If potable water is provided, an employer does not have to offer bottled water...

www.petrilloandgoldberg.com

You can lead a camel to water but you can't make him drink

 

[Trucker Clock]

Does OSHA even have authority to enforce a law where OSHA does not have jurisdiction?

Commercial motor vehicles over 10,000 lbs are governed by the DOT, not OSHA. OSHA can enforce its laws in buildings, where they have jurisdiction, but not on commercial motor vehicles.

 

[Integrity]

Straight from a law firm.

Are employers required to provide drinking water to employees?​

Under federal law, employers must provide potable water that employees can consume. Potable water includes tap water that is safe to drink.

Employers are not allowed to make employees pay for water that is provided. If potable water is provided, an employer does not have to offer bottled water.

Are employers required to provide drinking water to employees? | Petrillo & Goldberg Law

Under federal law, employers must provide potable water that employees can consume. Potable water includes tap water that is safe to drink. Employers are not allowed to make employees pay for water that is provided. If potable water is provided, an employer does not have to offer bottled water...

www.petrilloandgoldberg.com

I don’t think we are in the same debate. I never thought nor have I ever stated that UPS is required to offer bottled water.

Water bottles is listed as one of the three acceptable means for fulfilling this obligation.

However Article 5 of the Master indicates the negotiated situational requirement for supplying bottled water.

 

[AccidentProne]

I don’t think we are in the same debate. I never thought nor have I ever stated that UPS is required to offer bottled water.

Water bottles is listed as one of the three acceptable means for fulfilling this obligation.

However Article 5 of the Master indicates the negotiated situational requirement for supplying bottled water.

Where the Employer and the Union agree that the local water is not suitable for drinking, the Employer will provide bottled drinking water

Meaning if the water drank through water fountains is not safe they will supply bottled water.

Article 5 of the National Master Agreement. 2018-2023, page 15.

Source: https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ups18nationalmaster.pdf

 

[Trucker Clock]

I don’t think we are in the same debate.

You never are. You live in a fantasy world.

However Article 5 of the Master indicates the negotiated situational requirement for supplying bottled water.

Which the Company can stop supplying at any time unless the Union agreed that the water fountains are not suitable for drinking.

You disagreed with me earlier when I said the Company can stop supplying bottled water at any time and still be in compliance with OSHA because of the water fountains.

 

[Trucker Clock]

Where the Employer and the Union agree that the local water is not suitable for drinking, the Employer will provide bottled drinking water

Meaning if the water drank through water fountains is not safe they will supply bottled water.

Article 5 of the National Master Agreement. 2018-2023, page 15.

Source: https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ups18nationalmaster.pdf

We posted about the same thing about the same time. Great minds think alike.

 

[AccidentProne]

I feel like @Integrity is argumentative and cannot accept facts. He must win or cause a stalemate to feel satisfied.

Its okay to admit you're wrong and change your opinion based on facts.

 

[Integrity]

Where the Employer and the Union agree that the local water is not suitable for drinking, the Employer will provide bottled drinking water

Meaning if the water drank through water fountains is not safe they will supply bottled water.

Article 5 of the National Master Agreement. 2018-2023, page 15.

Source: https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ups18nationalmaster.pdf

The contract actually doesn’t say safe, it says suitable for drinking.

 

[Integrity]

You never are. You live in a fantasy world.



Which the Company can stop supplying at any time unless the Union agreed that the water fountains are not suitable for drinking.

You disagreed with me earlier when I said the Company can stop supplying bottled water at any time and still be in compliance with OSHA because of the water fountains.

I still disagree with this statement.

You may want to reread the original post.

 

[BadIdeaGuy]

The contract actually doesn’t say safe, it says suitable for drinking.

Can you describe to me any situation where that difference is meaningful?

Pretty sure “safe” and “suitable for drinking” is gonna mean the exact same thing.