Don't sign a "Fair Day's Work" agreement

[Coldworld]

Don't worry about it ... allowances are for management and whether they are fair or not is management's problem.

hoax, I actually care on a certain level how I perform, I believe that the safety of myself and the general public is my first goal. Secondly, the customers get good service from me..not watered down crap. Third, I do the best with the load and conditions I encounter with customers and my area. I dont have a problem working HARDER AND FASTER than other folks in my area. I dont have a problem having a truck that looks like a monkey loaded it...I dont have a problem going to 3rd story apts and getting the same time allowance that another driver gets for dring at the front door of a house. The conflict comes into play when im called out on it and it all becomes my problem. When someone is working faster usually that means something, not with the allowances, especially if everything isnt almost perfect....so as I respect your comments on here I think that it does fall back on me and others....so it is our problem. These arent the days where everyone knew who the "problem" drivers were, and Im not just talking allowance here, now almost everybody can be that problem driver.

 

[Coldworld]

my posts have always been slanted if you're going to deny the union teachs you how to avoid accountability.

route allowances? No I don't . I think some are impossible to hit and others are a cakewalk. I'll always hear you complain about the tough ones Ive never heard anyone complain about the routes that are too easy.

Slanted, but not to the level they are now....Ive been posting on here for many years, since 2000, even before using another name...not saying its good or bad but it is a bit more extreme...maybe we all have change a bit in the last couple of years

 

[Coldworld]

Yes, your posts have always been slanted.

No, the Union doesn't teach us much of anything.

Most people have Common Sense, and so they try to avoid walking into a trap. Who wants to promise in advance a specific level of performance, result, or outcome, when they don't know the many circumstances they will have to cope with? Even more foolish if the expected performance level is unrealistic to begin with, and the employee lacks the authority to make necessary changes.

In a normal company Authority and Responsibility go hand in hand. You don't make someone Responsible without giving them the Authority to manage the situation and make necessary adjustments. But at UPS, Authority isn't even given to local Management, let alone the workers.

Yep, go to monster.com and look at the job reviews for this company, very negative and slanted, interesting enough, almost all of the posters are non union, clerical and management, supervisor...the word micromanaged is used many times. I would not be far off base to say that ups is probably one of the most micromanaged companies in america...probably along with one of the most hostile workplaces in america. You just dont grow world class companies with these kinds of attributes.

 

[klein]

Are you saying we should all start screwing up and doing alot less?? Time for plan C guys!!

I still can't believe DS got fault on Friday for an avoidable accident ( he got hit, while parked at the rear side of a buliding he delivered to).
Luckily UPS isn't in the insurance business !

No way would that ever be at fault !
Does management gets it's thrill out of that kind of BS ?
No need to wonder the moral is going down at UPS, and workers do as they are told, and not 1 single thing extra.
UPS is huge, but keep that up, and the big ship will sink !

What is DS suppose to sign up for that ? I promise my truck won't get hit anymore, while I'm legally and safely parked ?
btw, I think he mentioned his first "accident" in 28 years. (maybe less, can't really remember, but a damn long time) !

How much more rotten can they get ?

 

[Coldworld]

my posts have always been slanted if you're going to deny the union teachs you how to avoid accountability.

route allowances? No I don't . I think some are impossible to hit and others are a cakewalk. I'll always hear you complain about the tough ones Ive never heard anyone complain about the routes that are too easy.

So in your eyes or the eyes of your fellow supervisors, does avoiding accountability=overallowance issues....because I have no problem with being accountable with things I can control, but when it comes to allowance that is so damn thin anyway, management are the ones that can change the routes to perform better and they dont do crap about it how is it that I am accountable..by default I guess. I think very few routes are "easy" anymore, even the country routes. So many runs have been cut that everyone has so much more work to do in less time, theres a reason injuries and accidents are up. Not saying its a correlation, but probably adds to the problem.

 

[Catatonic]

Yep, go to monster.com and look at the job reviews for this company, very negative and slanted, interesting enough, almost all of the posters are non union, clerical and management, supervisor...the word micromanaged is used many times. I would not be far off base to say that ups is probably one of the most micromanaged companies in america...probably along with one of the most hostile workplaces in america. You just dont grow world class companies with these kinds of attributes.

Could you provide the URLs for a few of these. I could not find any.

 

[Coldworld]

I still can't believe DS got fault on Friday for an avoidable accident ( he got hit, while parked at the rear side of a buliding he delivered to).
Luckily UPS isn't in the insurance business !

No way would that ever be at fault !
Does management gets it's thrill out of that kind of BS ?
No need to wonder the moral is going down at UPS, and workers do as they are told, and not 1 single thing extra.
UPS is huge, but keep that up, and the big ship will sink !

What is DS suppose to sign up for that ? I promise my truck won't get hit anymore, while I'm legally and safely parked ?
btw, I think he mentioned his first "accident" in 28 years. (maybe less, can't really remember, but a damn long time) !

How much more rotten can they get ?

It will NEVER be enough, EVER. Everybody need to stop thinking about the "good ol'days" when mgt had a heart. Its a new era, and expect the same crap even once the economy comes back. There are integrity issues at ups, everybody knows it...these would be happening if ups was a union or non-union company..period. Its a hard company to work for , always has been, just so much more now.

 

[Coldworld]

Ill check into it, it was one of the big sites though.

 

[Backlasher]

It felt great to have a 9:00 start for a good 4 month stretch and it was great to use EDD (no comment on trace) to get a quick view of the day and look at details on a stop well before I got there. It's what I ve wanted from the start. a five day work week full time seeing the same customers and unique twists that changes how the route runs according what places you hitting that day verses last day.
Last 2 months straight I ran a new route that was transferred to my center and am prode t say that Im the only 1 in my center who nows this best. they brought me to train on it at its original center.

As of 2morrow I'm back 2 part time on call, probably working 1 or 2 part time days a week and not even our managers know this garbage route but me. All the drivers from other center dreaded this split route, which on paper is officially not a split route cause the other route was dessolved. Little ol part time me knows the route well and killed myself to get it to work and keep these costumers happy. But now I'm a nobody again and this route still isn't being posted for bid so they can save $$$$.

So as of now I got to get used to calling in at 430 a.m. again to be told t stay home every morning while they throw in swing drivers at this beast of a route.
Yea I know the difference between a good route and a beast cause of had the honers of running minusses on some nice routes wondering what kind of bonus would i of gotten that day. This beast I alone know and will keep it's secrets with me. Have fun u swingers. not saying what pickups I call and what stops you should prioritize. Not this part time nobodies problem anymore.


What I'm saying is it's hard to let go after all I poured into this fulltime cover thing just to be stripped of it breaks my heart feeling it was all in vane. I ran it better then the other at the other center and the important costumers apprecieted me and wanted me t b there main guy.

Instead I pounder trying to find a 2nd job that will b flexable with U>P>S> and try to make ends meet till I get a chance to have a real bid route and support my family.

I didn't miss the on call 430 a.m. on call disappointments and am not looking forward to going back to that again. Disapointed and frustrated an I. I shoulda known better that they were just empty promises to get a body in there to cover. Yhey said we have new routes transfering over and we will keep u working all year dude. You made a smart move and are doing well, really provin yourself,great job. oh it's labor day, gotta put ya back to part time on call staus cause they can't work u air much. Guys in air have more seniority then me and don't have the drive to try out full time cover work.

 

[Backlasher]

So in your eyes or the eyes of your fellow supervisors, does avoiding accountability=overallowance issues....because I have no problem with being accountable with things I can control, but when it comes to allowance that is so damn thin anyway, management are the ones that can change the routes to perform better and they dont do crap about it how is it that I am accountable..by default I guess. I think very few routes are "easy" anymore, even the country routes. So many runs have been cut that everyone has so much more work to do in less time, theres a reason injuries and accidents are up. Not saying its a correlation, but probably adds to the problem.

Not just more work but also conflicting schedules with SSI accounts on all for corners opposite sides of town with very cloose or same time slots for deliveries and pickups.It's not just the increased stop count.

I was covering a route over summer that was all working against thesee ssi accounts cross town. I suggested changes that were made a day or 2 here or there and with those changes my numbers improved dramatically yet I still had similar volumn and stop counts and the paper looked great. but ask me if they kept those changes. NOPE ALL THE CONFLICTING GARBAGE CAME BACK ON AND CHAGES WERE SWEPT RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW. The numbers were poor again and i was back on the overaalowed list and upset customers. Just run harder and b safe, don't flip the truck.

I've been delivering long before UPS was in my life and I know that if I had a chance to veiw a route and the effected routes around it that I could make very positive changes. But I'm just a part time turd. It's not just changing that route but you have t know how it also effect s the routes around it as well in order to get the big picture and get them all closer to compliance.

why have a run 45th to 65th then b pope in and run 66th to 95th then run a scip threw that and run 95th to 115th. makes no sence

 

[dillweed]

I'm always grateful for the info I get on this site. Oftentimes it gives me the heads-up I need for things about to happen at my center and can prepare. I have not yet heard about signing a paper about fair days work but it doesn't much surprise me.

If memory serves, I made that agreement with the company when I hired in. They explained the job and requirements; I agreed and accepted the job. Good enough. No signature here.

 

[tieguy]

So in your eyes or the eyes of your fellow supervisors, does avoiding accountability=overallowance issues....because I have no problem with being accountable with things I can control, but when it comes to allowance that is so damn thin anyway, management are the ones that can change the routes to perform better and they dont do crap about it how is it that I am accountable..by default I guess. I think very few routes are "easy" anymore, even the country routes. So many runs have been cut that everyone has so much more work to do in less time, theres a reason injuries and accidents are up. Not saying its a correlation, but probably adds to the problem.

the nature of unionism is to avoid accountability at all costs. thats why they won't agree to any type of work measurement. A three day OJS is a reasonable measure of what you can perform under direct supervision. Yet the union excuse is always that we loaded the route up with easy work for those three days. As if there is any management person out there that knows your route well enough to cherry pick the work. One of the funniest things me and my fellow management folks hear is the old "boy I've never had things go this well" line when we ride with someone. As if we caught them on an unusually easy day.

 

[washington57]

the nature of unionism is to avoid accountability at all costs. thats why they won't agree to any type of work measurement. A three day OJS is a reasonable measure of what you can perform under direct supervision. Yet the union excuse is always that we loaded the route up with easy work for those three days. As if there is any management person out there that knows your route well enough to cherry pick the work. One of the funniest things me and my fellow management folks hear is the old "boy I've never had things go this well" line when we ride with someone. As if we caught them on an unusually easy day.

no that isn't the nature of unionism. its the nature of our business. driver's should always do the best job they can but they should not be accountable to the unfair time allowances. you want better workers? enforce everything always so everyone knows the rules. don't ignore procedures one day then enforce them the next. nobody wants to go the extra mile for a boss they cant trust.

 

[cachsux]

As if there is any management person out there that knows your route well enough to cherry pick the work.

Used to be I had a management team that could do just that. Of course that was back when they had to have driving experience before they could hold the position. I guess quality control has slipped for both drivers and management.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Used to be I had a management team that could do just that. Of course that was back when they had to have driving experience before they could hold the position. I guess quality control has slipped for both drivers and management.

They still do in our center. A 3 day ride means your load is massaged very well by IE. I've seen it firsthand. Tieguy is simply lying in this case, as on-cars and center manager's have and should have a very good understanding. I'm sure he will have some simple minded, look-away response to this.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

the nature of unionism is to avoid accountability at all costs. thats why they won't agree to any type of work measurement.

Apparently since the CO and Union mutually agreed, then you are leaving out accountability on the other half.

LOL how ironic, Tieguy NOT holding the company accountable for not holding employees accountable.

 

[UPSSOCKS]

Free UPSSOCKS

 

[Bubblehead]

the nature of unionism is to avoid accountability at all costs. thats why they won't agree to any type of work measurement. A three day OJS is a reasonable measure of what you can perform under direct supervision. Yet the union excuse is always that we loaded the route up with easy work for those three days. As if there is any management person out there that knows your route well enough to cherry pick the work. One of the funniest things me and my fellow management folks hear is the old "boy I've never had things go this well" line when we ride with someone. As if we caught them on an unusually easy day.

The three day ride is a farce.
Nothing more than a calculated bluff by lazy managers who aren't willing to do the work to prove their accusations.
The whole premise that to ride a driver for 3 days will give a fair representation of any given day there after is ludicris.
The subsequent practice of establishing a locked in SPOHR is equally rediculous in light of the fact that there are scores of other variables that go into the equation of a fair days work.
When I start deliveriang a newspaper route rather than a UPS route, only then will this approach hold water.
Every day is different.
Always was and always will be.

 

[tieguy]

Free UPSSOCKS

+++111

 

[tieguy]

no that isn't the nature of unionism. its the nature of our business. driver's should always do the best job they can but they should not be accountable to the unfair time allowances. you want better workers? enforce everything always so everyone knows the rules. don't ignore procedures one day then enforce them the next. nobody wants to go the extra mile for a boss they cant trust.

You can always find a reason to not go the extra mile if you're so inclined. The job you do should be your best regardless of your boss. This is where I've always felt your brand of unionism falls short.

Your union does a good job of telling you how they got your excellent pay and benifits. They do not tell you to go in and do the best job you can do. They should do so and then market union labor as the best.