Catatonic
Nine Lives
A butterfly flaps its wings at the equator.
Driver Fired for Dishonesty... While Supervisors Pull Stops as KC.... NOT
- Thread starter InsideUPS
- Start date
A butterfly flaps its wings at the equator.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
bottomups
Bad Moon Risen'
A supervisor lifts his cheek in Texas and farts. A tornado results in Alabama.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Good one!
stealstime
Member
Our BA seems to back management! Rumor has it so they don't have to contribute to the pension on the discharged employees behalf anymore.
oldngray
nowhere special
I thought the ill winds blew from Texas to Oklahoma.
'Lord Brown's bidding'
Well-Known Member
Depending on one's point if view, it is not dishonest. A "holiday" is a day taken off from one's regular duties, nowadays usually for recreational pursuits, but in past times for something more serious. What we call "vacation" over here is often referred to as "going on holiday" in other English-speaking countries. And even in THIS country what are often called "personal days" are technically "personal HOLIdays", and as explained to me once was to allow people to observe important "holy days" that were not recognized nationally or company-wide; can't close every time a Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. "Holy Day" comes around. However, most people just view it as a day off. Sunday, BTW, is probably a good example of a "holiday" (or"holy day") most people don't think of as such because everyone-religious or not-is off from work....or USED to be, anyway (there is a reason very few businesses used to be open Sunday; we all probably know what it was/is, and it wasn't "football"-except maybe for an agnostic or atheist).
Soooo....long story short, sheeting a business as "Closed-Holiday" on what is considered a typical work day-i.e. Mon-Fri-even if they are ALWAYS closed that day, is not "being dishonest", from a certain POV. Of course, we all should recognize that our POV should not conflict with management's POV, unless they are being dishonest......(nice how I was able to segue back to the thread topic)
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'Lord Brown's bidding'
Well-Known Member
I am trying to figure out why the disagreement between mgmt and the driver-I think I got it now: driver has three different business, adjacent to each other and all owned by same owner. Driver takes advantage of latter fact by regularly using multi-LA to one particular adress, although TECHNICALLY there are THREE different delivery points, and on certain days the regular delivery point is closed and the driver must deliver the other packages to their respective delivery points, OR the other two locations are closed and the main delivey place will not accept packages for the other two locations since they wouldn't be able to move them that day, thus cluttering up their space. Management just pulls all three addresses as closed, even though one or two of the businesses might actually be open.
By corporate policies, the driver was not wrong. I have several businesses that are sheeted similarly, because at one time they were delivered to separate points, but in a mutually-beneficial arrangement the vast majority of times I am only delivering to one address. However, two addresses don't suddenly become one address, and technically and even "truthfully" it isn't a "duplicate" stop, neither. Problem is often mgmt is not always well-versed in the proper delivery procedures, frankly because in many cases they don't-or won't-use them. I once "taught" an on-car of several years about using "multi-left at"; he was so afraid I was going to do something that would put me on a report. I was amazed when I showed him and he responded-with a genuine look of surprise on his face-"Wow! I never knew that!"
More pertinent, after I recently discovered that pre-recording a stop before a commit time-e.g. 10:30 or special agreements, like with Footlocker-and I was sharing this with another supe, a different supe pulled me aside shortly after to point out "doing things like pre-recording airs is what gets drivers in trouble; the company is watching such things". I tried hard to show him that it isn't shady, some trick, but has a very legitimate use; he promised that if he OJS'ed me we would do things "the right way", and I had the sinking feeling that meant either dishonestly sheeting all packages to one address (which can cause problems if a shipper is tracking that package and is expecting it to be delivered to a certain address; indirect deliveries show up differently on the tracking screen, and I have personally experienced this), OR making the receiver sign twice, which is pretty inconvenient for both a busy receiver as well as a time-crunched driver and is the very situation multi-LA was created to avoid, and why the time-stamp is based off the first-prerecord stop, so that it could be used at places where this might be an issue, like the mailroom of a college dorm (per training received via the DIAD, the proper way to record these stops is to sheet each room as a separate stop, even if the main address is the same, and then in the multi-LA screen use the "DR"-"Duplication Residential" option. Every supe I've trained with, however, has always said "the right way" is to sheet them all up as one address, so we don't get credit for more than one stop. Again, they don't know the ACTUAL method, but we can be disciplined for using it because they aren't familiar with it...
S
serenity now
Guest
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
By corporate policies, the driver was not wrong. I have several businesses that are sheeted similarly, because at one time they were delivered to separate points, but in a mutually-beneficial arrangement the vast majority of times I am only delivering to one address. However, two addresses don't suddenly become one address, and technically and even "truthfully" it isn't a "duplicate" stop, neither. Problem is often mgmt is not always well-versed in the proper delivery procedures, frankly because in many cases they don't-or won't-use them. I once "taught" an on-car of several years about using "multi-left at"; he was so afraid I was going to do something that would put me on a report. I was amazed when I showed him and he responded-with a genuine look of surprise on his face-"Wow! I never knew that!"
If the driver in question was making a valid delivery attempt at each of the adjacent businesses before indirecting the packages to the third business then each of the stops would be a separate stop; however, if the driver knew that the adjacent businesses would be closed and arrangements had been made to deliver everything to the third business you would sheet the stops separately, use multiple left-at, LC, DC, DC, left at location, one stop. To record all 3 as LC would be padding stops and could be considered to be dishonest.
More pertinent, after I recently discovered that pre-recording a stop before a commit time-e.g. 10:30 or special agreements, like with Footlocker-and I was sharing this with another supe, a different supe pulled me aside shortly after to point out "doing things like pre-recording airs is what gets drivers in trouble; the company is watching such things". I tried hard to show him that it isn't shady, some trick, but has a very legitimate use; he promised that if he OJS'ed me we would do things "the right way", and I had the sinking feeling that meant either dishonestly sheeting all packages to one address (which can cause problems if a shipper is tracking that package and is expecting it to be delivered to a certain address; indirect deliveries show up differently on the tracking screen, and I have personally experienced this), OR making the receiver sign twice, which is pretty inconvenient for both a busy receiver as well as a time-crunched driver and is the very situation multi-LA was created to avoid, and why the time-stamp is based off the first-prerecord stop, so that it could be used at places where this might be an issue, like the mailroom of a college dorm (per training received via the DIAD, the proper way to record these stops is to sheet each room as a separate stop, even if the main address is the same, and then in the multi-LA screen use the "DR"-"Duplication Residential" option. Every supe I've trained with, however, has always said "the right way" is to sheet them all up as one address, so we don't get credit for more than one stop. Again, they don't know the ACTUAL method, but we can be disciplined for using it because they aren't familiar with it...
When you prerecord a stop which has NDA the time stamp will be when you complete the stop, not when you prerecorded the packages. We have had a few drivers who found this out the hard way.
I also deliver to a college which averages 75 packages per day (up to 200 when a new semester is starting) and there is no way in hell I am going to prerecord each package addressed to a dorm only to use DR. Your sups are right----you would sheet the first package with the main address of the college (101 Broad St) and then hit "Y" for any package which does not have the same address but is delivered to the mailroom. Do you have any idea how long it would take to sheet and prerecord 50 or more separate dorm packages? Tracking a dorm package will show delivery location (101 Broad St) and receiver name. The college then delivers the packages to the individual dorms and buildings. The college records each and every package they receive and I have never had a negative DFU at the college.
If the driver in question was making a valid delivery attempt at each of the adjacent businesses before indirecting the packages to the third business then each of the stops would be a separate stop; however, if the driver knew that the adjacent businesses would be closed and arrangements had been made to deliver everything to the third business you would sheet the stops separately, use multiple left-at, LC, DC, DC, left at location, one stop. To record all 3 as LC would be padding stops and could be considered to be dishonest.
More pertinent, after I recently discovered that pre-recording a stop before a commit time-e.g. 10:30 or special agreements, like with Footlocker-and I was sharing this with another supe, a different supe pulled me aside shortly after to point out "doing things like pre-recording airs is what gets drivers in trouble; the company is watching such things". I tried hard to show him that it isn't shady, some trick, but has a very legitimate use; he promised that if he OJS'ed me we would do things "the right way", and I had the sinking feeling that meant either dishonestly sheeting all packages to one address (which can cause problems if a shipper is tracking that package and is expecting it to be delivered to a certain address; indirect deliveries show up differently on the tracking screen, and I have personally experienced this), OR making the receiver sign twice, which is pretty inconvenient for both a busy receiver as well as a time-crunched driver and is the very situation multi-LA was created to avoid, and why the time-stamp is based off the first-prerecord stop, so that it could be used at places where this might be an issue, like the mailroom of a college dorm (per training received via the DIAD, the proper way to record these stops is to sheet each room as a separate stop, even if the main address is the same, and then in the multi-LA screen use the "DR"-"Duplication Residential" option. Every supe I've trained with, however, has always said "the right way" is to sheet them all up as one address, so we don't get credit for more than one stop. Again, they don't know the ACTUAL method, but we can be disciplined for using it because they aren't familiar with it...
When you prerecord a stop which has NDA the time stamp will be when you complete the stop, not when you prerecorded the packages. We have had a few drivers who found this out the hard way.
I also deliver to a college which averages 75 packages per day (up to 200 when a new semester is starting) and there is no way in hell I am going to prerecord each package addressed to a dorm only to use DR. Your sups are right----you would sheet the first package with the main address of the college (101 Broad St) and then hit "Y" for any package which does not have the same address but is delivered to the mailroom. Do you have any idea how long it would take to sheet and prerecord 50 or more separate dorm packages? Tracking a dorm package will show delivery location (101 Broad St) and receiver name. The college then delivers the packages to the individual dorms and buildings. The college records each and every package they receive and I have never had a negative DFU at the college.
It wasn't so much to support you as it was to break Cupcakes stones.
oldngray
nowhere special
Signature Only
Blue in Brown
That'll be the day
Damn I'm tired of explaining the "not-so" obvious to you.
As usual, you missed the salient part of my smart-retort - a grieve can not be filed on management for dishonesty.
A grieve is filed and if in the course of investigating that grieve it is determined that the sup acted dishonestly, action will be taken.
Signature Only
Blue in Brown
Very well said. That's been my experience (for the most part) with management. It seems the only way to give some mangement backbone is to lash them to a fencepost. But I've seen some very good managers, women & men who knew the business inside out and were terrific professionals.
But they've all retired now. The replacements...well they just don't care..about anything it seems. And to be fair some of the new hourly hires aren't that good either.
But they've all retired now. The replacements...well they just don't care..about anything it seems. And to be fair some of the new hourly hires aren't that good either.
Our center had a FT sup fired for changing time cards. Same guy pressured a new driver into not taking breaks during a 13 hour work day.
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