drug testing

[tieguy]

more info for those in denial

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/files/driving_under_another_influence_pot.pdf

Like I said before go tell the parents of the 19 year old about unionism, hitlerism and the contract.

anyone trying to deny that pot seriously slows down your cognitive abilities and your reaction time must be seriously high to do so.

Your union somehow got that second chance language written in the contract and I wish my people had never agreed to it. But reality is that second chance may unnecessarily cost someone their life. You have no problem rolling the dice while I live the reality that I may have to be the one to explain it to someones family someday.

To call it high and mighty is just plain ignorant on your part. My guys and girls go out every day and see other peoples mistakes that were made where they dismissed the threat posed and took unnecessary chances.

We see the people covered in bedsheets that won't get a second chance.

 

[tieguy]

Dude, did you read the article? People are always tested for drugs when there is a fatality. Also. the article stated that pot smoking was still less likely to cause a crash than alcohol.

Did you dude me? Did you actually try to say that pot is safe because its not as bad as alcohol? Dude? Did you read anything else? Like pot is less tested and less detected then alcohol. Like Pot doubling your chance of an accident?

 

[cantwin69]

You're right, you didn't deserve the 'dude'.
You obviously didn't read your own article. From the first paragraph:

Cannabis almost doubles the risk of fatal car crashes, according to a new study, though smoking the drug is still far less risky than drink-driving, the researchers say.

I won't bring up the fact that whomever wrote this great article has a spelling issue. Are you so without comprehension that you believe pot is less detectable than alcohol? Alcohol is metabolized at a very quick rate and pot is stored in your fat cells. It is not water soluble therefore cannot be effectively flushed out of your system. Like I said, if you read my post, I don't agree that pot is safe, nor is any other drug. Especially these prescription drugs that are handed out like candy. The difference is, pot can be detectable for up to 90 days in certain people and that right there proves any study wrong when they say pot 'caused' an accident. The only way they'd know for sure is if they witnessed the act and then saw the accident. Pot isn't even detectable for at least 2 hours after the first toke. By then, the high has worn off. You really don't know what you're talking about sir. How many times have you gotten into a car within six hours of popping a painkiller? I mean it takes six hours for the effect of that to wear off. It's the exact same thing, but it's legal right?

 

[Jones]

I won't bring up the fact that whomever wrote this great article has a spelling issue.

Just an FYI, "drink-driving" is how they refer to drunk driving in England, Australia, New Zealand, etc. When I read the article I assumed that it originated in one of those places. Carry on.

 

[tieguy]

You're right, you didn't deserve the 'dude'.
You obviously didn't read your own article. From the first paragraph:

Cannabis almost doubles the risk of fatal car crashes, according to a new study, though smoking the drug is still far less risky than drink-driving, the researchers say.Are you so without comprehension that you believe pot is less detectable than alcohol?

The influences of pot is less detectable and is tested for much less then alcohol. Therefore many people who try to make the argument that pot is less of a factor do so on the basis that that there is less statiscal information available due to a lack of the concentrated scrutiny associated with alcohol.

Alcohol is metabolized at a very quick rate and pot is stored in your fat cells. It is not water soluble therefore cannot be effectively flushed out of your system. Like I said, if you read my post, I don't agree that pot is safe, nor is any other drug. Especially these prescription drugs that are handed out like candy. The difference is, pot can be detectable for up to 90 days in certain people and that right there proves any study wrong when they say pot 'caused' an accident.

Not so. recent use can be estimated by the quantity detected at the time of the test. If tested.

The only way they'd know for sure is if they witnessed the act and then saw the accident. Pot isn't even detectable for at least 2 hours after the first toke. By then, the high has worn off. You really don't know what you're talking about sir. How many times have you gotten into a car within six hours of popping a painkiller? I mean it takes six hours for the effect of that to wear off. It's the exact same thing, but it's legal right?

The problem with this little trip down around barn that you and others try to take me on is pot is known to slow down your cognitive abilities and known to slow down your reaction time. That has been tested and proven time and again. Pot does double the risk of an accident as you quoted. When the use of pot was tested and studied it was proven to be a cause in many fatal accidents. Thus why are we having this discussion? What are we proving here? At the same time that point still discounts the quantity consumed. I'm sure someone smoking the more potent versions of pot is every bit as dangerous as a drunk.

 

[hseofpayne]

The problem with this little trip down around barn that you and others try to take me on is pot is known to slow down your cognitive abilities and known to slow down your reaction time. That has been tested and proven time and again. Pot does double the risk of an accident as you quoted. When the use of pot was tested and studied it was proven to be a cause in many fatal accidents. Thus why are we having this discussion? What are we proving here? At the same time that point still discounts the quantity consumed. I'm sure someone smoking the more potent versions of pot is every bit as dangerous as a drunk.

I think we are just about done here; the originator of this post just started it and vamoosed, and we have no idea what he was on. We are divided into 2 groups who will never agree on pot, but as it is now, pot is illegal and no judge or member of UPS management will accept any of these "pot ain't a drug" arguments. By the way, poppy is a plant, too.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Are you serious. You only need one? Who's high and mighty now?

http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/motoring-tech/dn8407

Keep in mind that a person who is involved in a fatal crash is very likely to be tested for alcohol but hardly ever for any other drugs including the herb you try to defend.
As reviewed in this link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Cm...hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result

Tieguy, your article was clearly aimed at those who drink heavily, smoke pot then drive.

Firstly, a study in France. Do we live in France? Maybe you do, most of us aren't.
.
A new study in a foreign country where according to this study you posted SHOWS GENERALLY THE DRIVERS WERE CLEARLY USING OTHER SUBSTANCES AT THE TIME OF THE ACCIDENTS...

STONED FROM DRUGS AND ALCOHOL

furthermore - read closely

"Even after accounting for factors such as the age of the drivers and the condition of the vehicle, the researchers conclude that cannabis caused a significant number of the fatalities, with 2.5% of the crashes directly attributed to cannabis use. Alcohol was the direct cause of about 29%."


2.5% of crashes. Alcohol was the direct cause 29%

that's funny how you just destroyed your own argument.

Anyway, keep politick'in about what you don't know about. =)

 

[Mike Hawk]

Being high when driving is a safety risk, being high 90 days ago showing up on a drug test is NOT a safety risk. IMO pot is fine for recreational uses, like AFTER work when the effect will have long wore off before you go in to work. Same for alcohol, drink all you want after work, but do not show up to work intoxicated.

 

[sano]

My thought on marijuana is whether it is harmful or not is irrelevant (although there is certainly research that at least suggests it could be harmful) the real issue is it is illegal. Any adult willing to take the risk of finding, buying, and smoking pot has to ask themselves how responsible they are being. It just seems like it could say something about a person’s decision making process.
<steps of soap box>

 

[moreluck]

I can't imagine pot being more important than keeping your car and house. You can get all your stuff taken away. I watched a Cops where they towed a guys Corvette from his driveway for growing pot in his basement. Doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

disclaimer.....I have never even tried pot (or any drugs) and I'm a child of the 60's. I'm proud of that now.

 

[browniehound]

Being high when driving is a safety risk, being high 90 days ago showing up on a drug test is NOT a safety risk. IMO pot is fine for recreational uses, like AFTER work when the effect will have long wore off before you go in to work. Same for alcohol, drink all you want after work, but do not show up to work intoxicated.

Mike I happen to agree with you 100%. If you smoke weed on your time and you are only hurting yourself, then I don't have a problem (problem is that it show on a test like 4 weeks later). Apart from making you stupid, I find it to be a harmless substance. Do I want my kids or heart surgeon doing it? Of course not!

If you're kicking back on the couch watching a movie with a six-pack and a J on a Friday night, then enjoy!

I know people are going to say its illegal. This is from people I'm sure who never broken the law in their entire life (wink, wink). Let's leave legality out of it. I would like someone to post an opinion with facts supporting the argument that marijuana is a more dangerous drug than alcohol.

Its obvious that alcohol is many more times more dangerous than weed. Just think about it. Drinking makes you lose control of your body (being 'legless' comes to mind), gives you amnesia (blackouts), causes serious car accidents that result in more deaths in young people than anything else, and causes family disfuction and divorce, just to name a few. We can go on as I know everyone here could add to this list.

People check into "detox" or rehab for alcohol more than any other substance. Alcohol is physically addictive (you can die if you stop after drinking long-term), weed is not. There are no rehab centers for weed. This should say it all.

I'm not advocating marijuana smoking. You shouldn't. Its bad for your lungs and brain but drinking is worse on your body!

I know it appears that i'm advocating weed, but I'm not. I was actually trying to show how dangerous the legal drug alcohol is! Its ruined millions of lives just in the past year alone.

You can't say that about weed!

 

[hseofpayne]

My thought on marijuana is whether it is harmful or not is irrelevant (although there is certainly research that at least suggests it could be harmful) the real issue is it is illegal. Any adult willing to take the risk of finding, buying, and smoking pot has to ask themselves how responsible they are being. It just seems like it could say something about a person’s decision making process.
<steps of soap box>

Best post on subject of pot yet. It ain't like you are going down to the local Rx to buy this stuff. Their is no quality control, its one loser buying from another loser. From the time you leave your house to go buy it, to the time you get back, you are taking a chance on losing everything you have worked for. One bad decision, running stop sign, yellow light, whatever, and your life as you knew it is over. And for what, some weed?!

 

[tieguy]

Tieguy, your article was clearly aimed at those who drink heavily, smoke pot then drive.

Firstly, a study in France. Do we live in France? Maybe you do, most of us aren't.

you said show me one death I showed you 10,000. France did the study the US has not. When the US finally does a detailed study of the type france did then I'll be happy to rub your nose in it.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Tieguy, your article was clearly aimed at those who drink heavily, smoke pot then drive.

Firstly, a study in France. Do we live in France? Maybe you do, most of us aren't.

you said show me one death I showed you 10,000. France did the study the US has not. When the US finally does a detailed study of the type france did then I'll be happy to rub your nose in it.

That's where you are wrong. THere are scientific studies, which I believe YOU should go gather, that are quite disturbingly liberal....and guess what Tie, there right here in the good ole' US of A.

Of course one main issue is - we don't have much of a sample size regarding these "mice maze" tests regarding long term marjiuana use, no matter what country we're talking about. So let's be real - there is little evidence either way that weed alone is a "killer". So having said that, Tie's whole rant regarding some study in France is basically nonsense regarding those who go out and drink smoke get wasted and kill themselves and others.


I agree with some of the previous posts. Marijuana use is not nearly as dangerous as other drugs, including smoking cigarettes and alcohol ( that are both legal)- but sure, combine alcohol and pot (two depressants) and there's big problems. I think the convo ends there, as there are conflicting and politically biased trends on every end beyond that point.

 

[filthpig]

Well, since you asked, here's my take. I'm not particularly crazy about the classification of weed in the same class as coke, meth and other hard drugs. To me, there's just not a comparison in the severity of addiction or the effects on the body (long or short-term). I DO understand why UPS chooses to test for drugs when injury, accident or idiotic behavior dictates. It's the safe thing to do.
I have used weed in the past, but do not now (been years) and can honestly say that it's just not as bad for you alcohol.
Alcohol is many many many times more harmful than weed yet no one seems to understand or admit this. I never missed work because I smoked too much weed. Very rarely do people die because of the long term usage of weed. When you become an alcoholic, you can count on losing just about everything. It gets it all. Even more so than tobacco use. Tobacco use may destroy the individual, but alcoholics destroy everything and everyone around them.
Ask yourself this:if you had to choose, would you rather your kid get drunk every day or smoke weed every day? I've lived with people who get high and with alcoholics and that's a no-brainer.
I guess my main point is that I do understand why UPS tests, I just don't understand why drunks pretty much get a free pass. Doesn't seem fair when you consider the damage they do.
I am FILTHPIG and I approve this message.

 

[soberups]

Here is a first; I find myself in agreement with Tieguy.
I consider myself an expert on the subject of the destructive effects of drugs and alcohol. I have done every drug except for heroin, and I am a recovering alcoholic with 11 yrs sober.
I will concede that weed is slightly less detrimental to ones overall health and driving abilities than alcohol, but not by much. Weed builds up in your fatty tissues, and regular use of it means that you are pretty much permanently stoned on a low level whether you realize it or not. This I can say from personal experience. In my opinion, someone who smokes weed on any kind of a regular basis will suffer from a loss of brain function and coordination.
I disagree with Tieguy about the "second chance" agreement. Someone with the courage to step up and admit to a problem deserves an oportunity to get help, as they would for any other medical condtion. I believe in second chances, but NOT in 3rd chances.

 

[moreluck]

Congrats soberups on your 11 years. My daughter has 5 1/2 yrs. and if it wasn't for 2nd chances, my granddaughters would still be living with me. Ironically, my daughter now works in a toxicology lab and the mgmt. is paying for her college education to get her Lab. tech. credentials.

She has become a productive person who's raising kids, working & going to school. In the past I wanted to "freeze-dry" her in her teens and not add water 'til she turned 30. Life's lessons can be hard, but the important thing is that we learn from them.

 

[hseofpayne]

Here is a first; I find myself in agreement with Tieguy.
I consider myself an expert on the subject of the destructive effects of drugs and alcohol. I have done every drug except for heroin, and I am a recovering alcoholic with 11 yrs sober.
I will concede that weed is slightly less detrimental to ones overall health and driving abilities than alcohol, but not by much. Weed builds up in your fatty tissues, and regular use of it means that you are pretty much permanently stoned on a low level whether you realize it or not. This I can say from personal experience. In my opinion, someone who smokes weed on any kind of a regular basis will suffer from a loss of brain function and coordination.
I disagree with Tieguy about the "second chance" agreement. Someone with the courage to step up and admit to a problem deserves an oportunity to get help, as they would for any other medical condtion. I believe in second chances, but NOT in 3rd chances.

Used for 5 years, also tried everything except heroin(although I did take oxycontin which is hillbilly heroin) never touched crack either but it ain't cause I thought it was any worse than the rest; it just wasn't my drug of choice. Rehab is full of people who think what they are doing isn't as bad as the next persons habit. I have driven drunk and I have driven after smoking some weed. On alcohol, I struggled to maintain a lane and tended to speed. I have smoked some weed before that had me seeing the whole world in slow motion, think they call it sketching. I drove about 20 miles per hour and the last few hundred yards before a stop sign seemed like miles. Both alcohol and weed lead to erratic driving, traffic stops, arrests, jail time, and loss of your job. Most of my old "friends" who have relapsed convinced themselves smoking a little weed wasn't really a relapse, but once they were high, their old drug of choice was soon to follow. Congrats to you SoberUPS, I have 2 1/2 years clean now and I know how hard it is sometimes.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Here is a first; I find myself in agreement with Tieguy.
I consider myself an expert on the subject of the destructive effects of drugs and alcohol. I have done every drug except for heroin, and I am a recovering alcoholic with 11 yrs sober.
I will concede that weed is slightly less detrimental to ones overall health and driving abilities than alcohol, but not by much. Weed builds up in your fatty tissues, and regular use of it means that you are pretty much permanently stoned on a low level whether you realize it or not. This I can say from personal experience. In my opinion, someone who smokes weed on any kind of a regular basis will suffer from a loss of brain function and coordination.
I disagree with Tieguy about the "second chance" agreement. Someone with the courage to step up and admit to a problem deserves an oportunity to get help, as they would for any other medical condtion. I believe in second chances, but NOT in 3rd chances.

"Actual studies of human populations of marijuana users have shown no evidence of brain damage. For example, two studies from 1977, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) showed no evidence of brain damage in heavy users of marijuana. "

1) Marijuana and Health, Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Sciences, 1982. Note: the Committee on Substance Abuse and Habitual Behavior of the "Marijuana and Health" study had its part of the final report suppressed when it reviewed the evidence and recommended that possession of small amounts of marijuana should no longer be a crime (TIME magazine, July 19, 1982). The two JAMA studies are: Co, B.T., Goodwin, D.W., Gado, M., Mikhael, M., and Hill, S.Y.: "Absence of cerebral atrophy in chronic cannabis users", JAMA, 237:1229-1230, 1977; and, Kuehnle, J., Mendelson, J.H., Davis, K.R., and New, P.friend.J.: "Computed tomographic examination of heavy marijuana smokers", JAMA, 237:1231-1232, 1977.

 

[hseofpayne]

Driving While Impaired

The extent of the problem of marijuana-impaired driving is startling. One in six (or 600,000) high school students drive under the influence of marijuana, almost as many as drive under the influence of alcohol, according to estimates released in September 2003 by the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP). A study of motorists pulled over for reckless driving showed that, among those who were not impaired by alcohol, 45 percent tested positive for marijuana.

Those who patrol streets and highways, know that the consequences of marijuana-impaired driving can be tragic. For example, four children and their van driver-nicknamed Smokey by the children for his regular marijuana smoking-died in April 2002 when a Tippy Toes Learning Academy van veered off a freeway and hit a concrete bridge abutment. He was found at the crash scene with marijuana in his pocket.
Innocents Killed

Some such drug-impaired drivers will be detected through the Drug Recognition Expert program, which operates under the direction of the IACP and is supported by NHTSA. However, if we are to bolster cases against drugged drivers, greater protection for innocents on the road requires the development of affordable roadside drug detection tests, and some are in the testing phase now.

Secondhand smoke from marijuana kills other innocents as well. Last year, two Philadelphia firefighters were killed when they responded to a residential fire stemming from an indoor marijuana grow. In New York City, an eight-year-old boy, Deasean Hill, was killed by a stray bullet just steps from his Brooklyn home after a drug dealer sold a dime bag of marijuana on another dealer's turf.