From The Chairman: Transition to Ground

[Code 82 Approved]

I do believe I'm getting my first 3 day Express delivery tomorrow according to my inbound report.

 

[Working4the1%]

No sign Powerpad thread has an update from Bloomberg news

 

[MrFedEx]

Unlike you, I prefer arguing from a point of knowledge on a rational base, not hurling invectives from a world that only exists in my mind.

Perhaps you should read up on the issue instead of holding hands with Dano and just taking his word for it. Do you actually know anything or are you just piling on?

 

[Cactus]

The criteria is set by the NMB, not some washed-up courier, and they don't recognize a hybrid.



No, I was stating a fact about two companies. Express is not two companies.



LOL, those aren't the guidelines. In fact, they are in direct conflict with the guidelines in letter, spirit, and application.



You're so out of your league and the issue is so far above your head and beyond your comprehension that it's sad.

I appreciate your mental gymnastics in trying to explain why Express employees aren't airline employees because LBBA doesn't have airplanes, but a company doesn't even have to own, rent, or lease a single airplane to be covered by the RLA's airline provision.

You'd think the board's self-professed blowhard expert would know that.

You never answered my question. You seem to dodge questions that aren’t to your liking.

Why was this referred to as a “Special Deal” then if FedEx supposedly met all the criteria?

 

[dezguy]

At what point do you guys get tired or arguing in circles and realize there is nothing you can say to change the others' point of view?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Cactus]

At what point do you guys get tired or arguing in circles and realize there is nothing you can say to change the others' point of view?

Asking for a friend.

At least we’re staying on on-topic.

 

[MrFedEx]

At what point do you guys get tired or arguing in circles and realize there is nothing you can say to change the others' point of view?

Asking for a friend.

Good point. Even though I no longer work at FedEx I feel that I have a moral duty to try and help/educate my friends who still labor at The Plantation. I'm not going to ever change Dano's mind, but the FedEx line of BS should be countered.

Still too many people who believe the FedEx lies. I'd really like to see other people step-up and tell the truth about the way FedEx operates. Now that I've left, and with everything else going on, it would be helpful.

 

[Cactus]

Still too many people who believe the FedEx lies. I'd really like to see other people step-up and tell the truth about the way FedEx operates. Now that I've left, and with everything else going on, it would be helpful.

Same goes for me too.

Dano is a Memphis paid shill that doesn't belong here. I'm sure he's over at the Facebook site too trying to make the manure pile into a field of clover. Good luck with that.

Seen a lot of Kool-Aid drinkers on there today as it is.

 

[MrFedEx]

At what point do you guys get tired or arguing in circles and realize there is nothing you can say to change the others' point of view?o

Asking for a friend.

Let me add one more comment. When you hear from me, it's from a definite liberal, pro-union perspective. I put in almost 30 years at Express in a wide variety of positions in 6 different locations. I worked with the IBT in 1995-1996 as part of the organization drive at FedEx, and was labeled forever after by management as a "troublemaker".

Most of my time at FedEx was as an RTD, but I was also a courier, a ramp agent, worked Dispatch and maybe even some other positions that I wish I had never worked at. I actually do know a number of highly placed current and former FedEx members of management and dozens of pilots, both linehaul Express and feeder.

When you hear from Dano, it's my opinion he is a social media shill paid by FedEx to monitor various forms of social media and deflect and put a pro-Fred spin on everything. He's Republican, fervently anti-union and anti-worker, and will never answer a question in a straight out fashion if it makes FedEx look bad.

The current topic of the RLA issue is a perfect example. He keeps going back to the FedEx rationale for the RLA classification, because it's always been the company line that we're "airline workers". He won't address any evidence that contradicts the company line. This is true for almost everything he posts.

I work for myself in real estate, have no attachments to the IBT, and receive zero compensation for what I write.

Everything I post here is subject to moderator review because I'm in a permanent moderation status. That's why what I post often takes awhile to show up. What I say is often controversial or not to the liking of the minders.

Full disclosure.

 

[59 Dano]

No, it isn't what you said. The 1996 FAA Reauthorization Act gave Fred his exemption. You obfuscate, as usual, and ignore the basic question and line of reasoning I outlined.

The vast majority of FedEx Express employees are mis-classified as airline employees, when, in fact, they are basically truck drivers and various personnel associated with trucking.

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[59 Dano]

Inserted back into the Bill as Fred's gift? As usual, you take the company line all the way and ignore the real legal test, which is that of serving an "airline". The pilots and mechanics serve the airline. The drivers serve the trucking end of the company, which is, by far, the dominant portion of Express.

Express passes that test with flying colors.

Read some of the papers written by the opposing side, sir. You'll see that the above question was that which was decided upon...in error, because revealing the true nature of FedEx operations meant it should not have been classified RLA. Therein lies the gift of mis-classification.

"Express passes the test, but it shouldn't."

Who do the Ground drivers serve, Dano? Two masters? The previous Ground model, which was almost pure truck and rail, or the new model, which is a mix of Express packages and traditional FedEx Ground freight?

Therefore, it is not a valid legal test and is open to legal challenge as a result. Like I said, a gift, and not the intent of the parameters describing the duties of a driver serving an airline.

Ground has nothing to do with this, you blithering halfwit.

You keep babbling about all sorts of conditional crap that isn't germane to the issue. For the thousandth time, THERE ARE STANDARDS AND TESTS THAT DETERMINE RLA/NLRA STATUS; YOU REFUSE TO DISCUSS THEM.

 

[59 Dano]

You never answered my question. You seem to dodge questions that aren’t to your liking.

Why was this referred to as a “Special Deal” then if FedEx supposedly met all the criteria?

Because you and MF like to call it a special deal to say "LOOK FRED GOT A SPECIAL DEAL OMG!"

 

[MrFedEx]

Because you and MF like to call it a special deal to say "LOOK FRED GOT A SPECIAL DEAL OMG!"

He absolutely got a special deal. You need to have another wine cooler, Big Boy. Think you can handle it?

 

[59 Dano]

At what point do you guys get tired or arguing in circles and realize there is nothing you can say to change the others' point of view?

Asking for a friend.

First off, this is confined (mostly) to this single thread, which was a joke of a thread anyway.

The whole point of this particular spat was to goad him into arguing about RLA status and pressing him over and over about discussing the actual standards used by the National Mediation Board because I knew he doesn't know anything about them. That's why I kept referencing them up each time he'd come up with some dumb station lawyer argument. He doesn't have any idea what any of them are and I wanted to keep pointing that out.

Since you're pouting about it, might as well bury the issue once and for all unless a certain someone refuses to accept defeat.

MF constantly babbles that couriers are a special group of employees that shouldn't be considered airline employees even though they are airline employees. Alrighty then. The National Mediation Board determines if truck drivers should be covered under the RLA, as there are RLA employees who don't work for any airline.

The standard test used has three parts, all of which apply to couriers:

Does the driver perform services principally for the RLA carrier with which it is affiliated? (Yes)
Is the driver an integral part of that affiliate? (You guessed it)
Does the trucker perform services essential the the RLA carrier's operations? (LOL!!)

And then there are other tests...

*The extent of the carrier's control (100%)
*The amount of access the carrier has to the company's routine and records (100%)
*The extent that the carrier has in employment decisions (100%)
*The extent that the carrier supervises those employees (100%)
*Whether the company employees are held out as carrier employees (100%)
*The degree to which the carrier controls employee training (100%)

Not that ANY of this matters because Express is an airline and couriers are employees of that airline, and thus are subject to the RLA which applies to "every air pilot or other person who performs any work as an employee or subordinate official of such carrier or carriers, subject to its or their continuing authority to supervise and direct the manner of rendition of his service."

AND

The NMB has exercised jurisdiction over Express ground service employees multiple times as far back as 1978, when the IBT first sought to challenge the RLA status of Express.

AND

The NMB has stated that it wouldn't not invoke the unprecedented move of carving out an exception for employees that are rightly covered under the act.

To summarize, even if one is delusional enough to believe that FedEx Express couriers aren't employed by an airline, they pass all the tests used by the board to determine if couriers should be covered by the RLA, MF's LSD-fueled arguments notwithstanding.

 

[MrFedEx]

You don't know what you're talking about.

I do, shill. That's what has you concerned.

 

[dezguy]

First off, this is confined (mostly) to this single thread, which was a joke of a thread anyway.

The whole point of this particular spat was to goad him into arguing about RLA status and pressing him over and over about discussing the actual standards used by the National Mediation Board because I knew he doesn't know anything about them. That's why I kept referencing them up each time he'd come up with some dumb station lawyer argument. He doesn't have any idea what any of them are and I wanted to keep pointing that out.

Since you're pouting about it, might as well bury the issue once and for all unless a certain someone refuses to accept defeat.

MF constantly babbles that couriers are a special group of employees that shouldn't be considered airline employees even though they are airline employees. Alrighty then. The National Mediation Board determines if truck drivers should be covered under the RLA, as there are RLA employees who don't work for any airline.

The standard test used has three parts, all of which apply to couriers:

Does the driver perform services principally for the RLA carrier with which it is affiliated? (Yes)
Is the driver an integral part of that affiliate? (You guessed it)
Does the trucker perform services essential the the RLA carrier's operations? (LOL!!)

And then there are other tests...

*The extent of the carrier's control (100%)
*The amount of access the carrier has to the company's routine and records (100%)
*The extent that the carrier has in employment decisions (100%)
*The extent that the carrier supervises those employees (100%)
*Whether the company employees are held out as carrier employees (100%)
*The degree to which the carrier controls employee training (100%)

Not that ANY of this matters because Express is an airline and couriers are employees of that airline, and thus are subject to the RLA which applies to "every air pilot or other person who performs any work as an employee or subordinate official of such carrier or carriers, subject to its or their continuing authority to supervise and direct the manner of rendition of his service."

AND

The NMB has exercised jurisdiction over Express ground service employees multiple times as far back as 1978, when the IBT first sought to challenge the RLA status of Express.

AND

The NMB has stated that it wouldn't not invoke the unprecedented move of carving out an exception for employees that are rightly covered under the act.

To summarize, even if one is delusional enough to believe that FedEx Express couriers aren't employed by an airline, they pass all the tests used by the board to determine if couriers should be covered by the RLA, MF's LSD-fueled arguments notwithstanding.

Dude, I don't care. I'm not getting into this stupidity with either of you.

You two are literally arguing in circles but if what gets you though the day is thinking you've won an argument over the internet, then God bless.

 

[MrFedEx]

Dude, I don't care. I'm not getting into this stupidity with either of you.

You two are literally arguing in circles but if what gets you though the day is thinking you've won an argument over the internet, then God bless.

Then tune out. I argue this because I'd like to see employees take a stand a get a union. Obviously, the other side doesn't want that. There was a more recent attempt to try and change the status in 2009, which also failed. Fred wrote everyone a nice long letter explaining why they were so much better under the RLA and how the company was properly classified. Of course, there were loads of pro-FedEx comments from numerous employees saying how great PSP was and how we didn't need a union etc. Pretty much exactly the same thing the usual suspects here say all the time.

Once Covid-19 is out of the way, Express employees finally have a chance to make it right and get reclassified. That's why I push so hard on this. You have no idea the lengths Fred will go to to prevent a union, and this whole Ground combination deal is the legal ammo you need to actually win this time.

When I worked with the IBT I was followed, harassed, and had an Ops Manager assigned to monitor me. She was reporting back directly to MEM on my activities. I knew because she was a personal friend and she felt I needed to know. She always provided them with phony information at my request.

My other 2 co-workers were also followed and harassed. One was terminated on a trumped-up accusation. The other one kept his job. All of had targets on us.

Maybe it's different in Canada. I know your labor laws are more worker friendly. Here in the US, that would not be the case.

So, if you don't want to read it, put me on ignore. I'm trying to help, not have a circular argument with the other side. But, if nobody counters them, the false narrative is allowed to continue.

 

[dezguy]

Then tune out. I argue this because I'd like to see employees take a stand a get a union. Obviously, the other side doesn't want that. There was a more recent attempt to try and change the status in 2009, which also failed. Fred wrote everyone a nice long letter explaining why they were so much better under the RLA and how the company was properly classified. Of course, there were loads of pro-FedEx comments from numerous employees saying how great PSP was and how we didn't need a union etc. Pretty much exactly the same thing the usual suspects here say all the time.

Once Covid-19 is out of the way, Express employees finally have a chance to make it right and get reclassified. That's why I push so hard on this. You have no idea the lengths Fred will go to to prevent a union, and this whole Ground combination deal is the legal ammo you need to actually win this time.

When I worked with the IBT I was followed, harassed, and had an Ops Manager assigned to monitor me. She was reporting back directly to MEM on my activities. I knew because she was a personal friend and she felt I needed to know. She always provided them with phony information at my request.

My other 2 co-workers were also followed and harassed. One was terminated on a trumped-up accusation. The other one kept his job. All of had targets on us.

Maybe it's different in Canada. I know your labor laws are more worker friendly. Here in the US, that would not be the case.

So, if you don't want to read it, put me on ignore. I'm trying to help, not have a circular argument with the other side. But, if nobody counters them, the false narrative is allowed to continue.

Dude, no one cares.

Tune out you say? It's hard to "tune out" when you're looking for people in common for shop talk and all you see for pages, on end, is you two arguing "I'm right, you're wrong" with a spattering of insults post after post.

But keep fighting what you think is the good fight.

 

[Cactus]

It's hard to "tune out" when you're looking for people in common for shop talk and all you see for pages, on end, is you two arguing "I'm right, you're wrong" with a spattering of insults post after post.

When I see people here arguing about abortion, religion, sports etc. I just skip right over it. Nothing difficult.

 

[MrFedEx]

Dude, no one cares.

Tune out you say? It's hard to "tune out" when you're looking for people in common for shop talk and all you see for pages, on end, is you two arguing "I'm right, you're wrong" with a spattering of insults post after post.

But keep fighting what you think is the good fight.

Don't care. Be passive and accept it.