FULL TIMERS still in PROGRESSION with seniority date by Aug 1st! Did you file your grievance!?!

[Boston25]

Sorry, I assumed you were a driver. Your progression schedule still puts you ahead of the gwi for the year though. Oh well, if they want to give you more money, bully for you.

I was a package car driver I bid to a 22.3

 

[zubenelgenubi]

The package car drivers in my building who were in progression prior to August 1, 2018 also got the $.75 raise August 1st of this year.

....and none of the "powers that be" are claiming it to be a mistake, so what changed???

That's what I'd like to know about it. I still think someone is operating off of bad info, but I won't begrudge other people's good fortune. If it sticks, it's a win for the union as far as I'm concerned. I would also love to see someone challenge past decisions on the matter and get us even more money.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Let's look at it like this gentleman. Article 41 Section 1 specifically instructs the reader who is going to receive the GWI. Can we at least agree on that part? Section 2 points out which full-time employees that will not be receiving the GWI. Can we agree on that point? If we can find common ground and those first two questions then I have one further question to ask! Is the GWI eligible full-time employee mentioned an article 41 Section 1 ever mentioned in section 2 or any of the other subsections? friend for whatever reason you fine that the eligible full-time employee mentioned and article 41 Section 1 is never ever ever mentioned in any of the other sections or subsections then the language and section 2 or the subsections following cannot refer to the full-time employee only mentioned an article 41 Section 1. It's impossible and ill logical to superimpose the full time employee only mentioned and article 41 Section 1 into any other section of the contract where they are never ever ever mentioned.

Section 1 specifically references section 2 in regards to the employees covered by section 1.

"Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases.
They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accor- dance with Article 41, Section 2 below."

And section 2 specifically references the same employees:

"Employees in the Article 41 Section 2(c) progression in the prior Agreement as of the date of ratifcation shall be slotted into the new progression above." These are the seniority employees already in progression from section 1, in case it wasn't obvious.

So that blows your compartmentalization theory right out of the water. Both sections reference the same employees, and section 1 specifically says section 2 applies to those employees.

Once again, as long as any employee having attained seniority prior to August 1st gets an increase equal to or greater than the gwi at any point in the contract year, the contract terms have been satisfied. Employees already in progression from the last contract will be getting raises higher than gwi in almost all, if not all, cases at some point during each contract year. The contract does not specify a date that the increase must take place, just each contract year.

If the company wants to give you money that the contract doesn't require, they are well within their rights to do so. Contractual rates are minimums.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

That's what I'd like to know about it. I still think someone is operating off of bad info, but I won't begrudge other people's good fortune. If it sticks, it's a win for the union as far as I'm concerned. I would also love to see someone challenge past decisions on the matter and get us even more money.

The only thing that changed this time around was the quality of the Grievances. Look at the contract sort of like a riddle and an old mummy movie, if you can't answer the riddle you can't get the gold. The grievance Solve the Riddle and now we get the gold. I might add that the gold was there for the taking the whole time for you guys to get but you could not Solve the Riddle! Not to be too much of a jerk or anything but I got to tell you I told you so!

 

[BigJamesBrown]

The package car drivers in my building who were in progression prior to August 1, 2018 also got the $.75 raise August 1st of this year.

....and none of the "powers that be" are claiming it to be a mistake, so what changed???

And they're not going to either because there is nothing to legitimately claim against the $0.75 we all got!

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Section 1 specifically references section 2 in regards to the employees covered by section 1.

"Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases.
They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accor- dance with Article 41, Section 2 below."

And section 2 specifically references the same employees:

"Employees in the Article 41 Section 2(c) progression in the prior Agreement as of the date of ratifcation shall be slotted into the new progression above." These are the seniority employees already in progression from section 1, in case it wasn't obvious.

So that blows your compartmentalization theory right out of the water. Both sections reference the same employees, and section 1 specifically says section 2 applies to those employees.

Once again, as long as any employee having attained seniority prior to August 1st gets an increase equal to or greater than the gwi at any point in the contract year, the contract terms have been satisfied. Employees already in progression from the last contract will be getting raises higher than gwi in almost all, if not all, cases at some point during each contract year. The contract does not specify a date that the increase must take place, just each contract year.

If the company wants to give you money that the contract doesn't require, they are well within their rights to do so. Contractual rates are minimums.

You can't add language to a contract none of the language you posted is in the contract that's ridiculous! Excuse me Maybe I'm Wrong about what you posted can you please post the section you're getting the language from you post it? Again, I'm going to say it once again section 2 only eliminates specific full-time drivers from section 1, full-time employees with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 is not eliminated from article 41 Section 1 by section 2, the language that's needed to eliminate full-time drivers with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 from article 41 Section 1 is simply nowhere to be found in section 2. The only way you can eliminate full-time drivers with a seniority take prior to August 1st 2008 is to do exactly what you did add language because that language does not exist!!!

 

[Dumbo]

It's a fact that the raise went through. I got .75. Am I correct in assuming the issue is whether or not that is in addition to our progression?

So I am at 23.75 right now. My seniority date is October 1. Does that mean I get 24.75 or does that mean I get the extra .25 bringing it to $24? Is that the issue?

 

[upschuck]

It's a fact that the raise went through. I got .75. Am I correct in assuming the issue is whether or not that is in addition to our progression?

So I am at 23.75 right now. My seniority date is October 1. Does that mean I get 24.75 or does that mean I get the extra .25 bringing it to $24? Is that the issue?

25 ¢.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

It's a fact that the raise went through. I got .75. Am I correct in assuming the issue is whether or not that is in addition to our progression?

So I am at 23.75 right now. My seniority date is October 1. Does that mean I get 24.75 or does that mean I get the extra .25 bringing it to $24? Is that the issue?

Congratulations on your raise! Nowhere in the terms of the contract do we get a $0.25 raise, in the contract you will fine schedule raises for those of us and progression (see) full-time employees in progression!
In short, yes you should see the hourly rate of *$25.45* EVEN If you do receive the *$24.75* then follow this thread from the beginning, find my grievance and copy it! file a grievance with your shop Stuart! mind you you're still in the hole for the $0.70 GWI they still owe you for the beginning year of the contract.

 

[upschuck]

Congratulations on your raise! Nowhere in the terms of the contract do we get a $0.25 raise, end the contract you will fine bet schedule raises for those of us and progression see full-time employees in progression!
And short oh, yes you should see the hourly rate of $24.45. If you do not receive the $24.45 then follow this thread from the beginning and copy my grievance and file a grievance with your shop Stuart.

Seniority + 2 years it say $24 which is 25¢ more than 23.75, so in fact it does say that.

Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases. They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance with Article 41, Section 2 below.

(c) The progression for employees entering a package car driving, feeder or other full-time job (other than an air driver, Article 43 jobs or a job covered by Sections 3, 4 or 6 below) after August 1, 2018 shall be as follows:
Start 21.00
Twelve (12) months 23.00
Twenty-four (24) months 24.00
Thirty-six (36) months 28.75
Forty-eight (48) months Top Rate

If you can point me to where it states you'll get a dollar, I'll be glad to change my view. It is written in stone, so to say.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

You can't add language to a contract none of the language you posted is in the contract that's ridiculous! Excuse me Maybe I'm Wrong about what you posted can you please post the section you're getting the language from you post it? Again, I'm going to say it once again section 2 only eliminates specific full-time drivers from section 1, full-time employees with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 is not eliminated from article 41 Section 1 by section 2, the language that's needed to eliminate full-time drivers with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 from article 41 Section 1 is simply nowhere to be found in section 2. The only way you can eliminate full-time drivers with a seniority take prior to August 1st 2008 is to do exactly what you did add language because that language does not exist!!!

I literally copy and pasted the language straight from the PDF version of the newest contract, which hasn't changed, except dates, since the last contract. It is in Article 41 section 1 and section 2. @Bubblehead posted an image a few pages back that contains the language in section 1 that I quoted, but the language from section 2 is on the next page. I added nothing.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Seniority + 2 years it say $24 which is 25¢ more than 23.75, so in fact it does say that.



If you can point me to where it states you'll get a dollar, I'll be glad to change my view. It is written in stone, so to say.

Okay! Look at full-time wage increase and then scroll down and look at full-time wage progression. Tell me where in any of the scheduling does it say we get a $0.25 raise.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Seniority + 2 years it say $24 which is 25¢ more than 23.75, so in fact it does say that.



If you can point me to where it states you'll get a dollar, I'll be glad to change my view. It is written in stone, so to say.

Maybe I'm approaching this the wrong way here's what I want you to do. Tell me where in the contract does it say you will receive $23.75?

 

[upschuck]

Okay! Look at full-time wage increase and then scroll down and look at full-time wage progression. Tell me where in any of the scheduling does it say we get a $0.25 raise.

$24

It is a static number, it does not vary, so from 23.75 to 24 is 25¢. Simple math. If states that "They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance with Article 41, Section 2 below." which is why you are getting that raise.

 

[upschuck]

Maybe I'm approaching this the wrong way here's what I want you to do. Tell me where in the contract does it say you will receive $23.75?

It really is not that hard, is it?

 

[BigJamesBrown]

I literally copy and pasted the language straight from the PDF version of the newest contract, which hasn't changed, except dates, since the last contract. It is in Article 41 section 1 and section 2. @Bubblehead posted an image a few pages back that contains the language in section 1 that I quoted, but the language from section 2 is on the next page. I added nothing.

Section 2 of article 41 is there to specifically tell the reader who does NOT qualify for the wage increase given to full-time employees in Section 1. You will note that a full-time employee still in progression with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 is never ever ever ever mentioned or disqualified from getting the wage increase with wording in section 2 of article 41.

Article 41 section 2 is the disqualifier for getting the wage increase mentioned in Section 1, only those mentioned in section 2 will be *DISQUALIFIED* for getting the wage increase mentioned in section one of article 42.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

$24

It is a static number, it does not vary, so from 23.75 to 24 is 25¢. Simple math. If states that "They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance with Article 41, Section 2 below." which is why you are getting that raise.

So if you are a saying that full-timers in progression get the general wage increase, then riddle me this please! How are the terms of the contract for filled if the general wage increases are not$0.70 $0.75 cents$0.80 $0.90 cents and then $1?

The contract says that you have to have a annual rate gwi with these figures.

 

[upschuck]

Section 2 of article 41 is there to specifically tell the reader who does NOT qualify for the wage increase given to full-time employees in Section 1. You will note that a full-time employee still in progression with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 is never ever ever ever mentioned or disqualified from getting the wage increase with wording in section 2 of article 41.

So let me get this straight, you're saying that you only get the gwi raises? What does this mean:

They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance with Article 41, Section 2 below.

This is how I see raises for those in progression as of Aug 1, 2018. Say you seniority date is April 1 of 2018.

April 1, 2018 18.75 - I believe that is what is was
Aug 1, 2018 21.00 - Art 41.1/41.2c
April 1, 2019 23.00 - Art 41.1/41.2c
Aug 1, 2019 23.75 - Art 41.1
April 1, 2020 24.00 - Art 41.1/41.2c
Aug 1, 2020 24.80 - Art 41.1
April 1, 2021 28.75 - Art 41.1/41.2c
Aug 1, 2021 29.65 - Art 41.1/41.2c
April 1, 2022 Top rate - Art 41.1/41.2c

Tell me where I am wrong, according to the contract

 

[upschuck]

So if you are a saying bat full-timers in progression get the general wage increase then riddle me this please! How are the terms of the contract for filled if the general wage increases are not$0.70 $0.75 cents$0.80 $0.90 cents and then $1?

The contract says that you have to have a annual rate gwi with these figures.

See my post above. You are getting those and the progression rate.

 

[Turdferguson]

So let me get this straight, you're saying that you only get the gwi raises? What does this mean:



This is how I see raises for those in progression as of Aug 1, 2018. Say you seniority date is April 1 of 2018.

April 1, 2018 18.75 - I believe that is what is was
Aug 1, 2018 21.00 - Art 41.1/41.2c
April 1, 2019 23.00 - Art 41.1/41.2c
Aug 1, 2019 23.75 - Art 41.1
April 1, 2020 24.00 - Art 41.1/41.2c
Aug 1, 2020 24.80 - Art 41.1
April 1, 2021 28.75 - Art 41.1/41.2c
Aug 1, 2021 29.65 - Art 41.1/41.2c
April 1, 2022 Top rate - Art 41.1/41.2c

Tell me where I am wrong, according to the contract