Goodbye Feeders

[robonono]

feederman73,

Your question:
"Would you please explain to me and everyone else what purpose the letter has and why was it not included with the vote?"
may be a good one, but you are asking it of the wrong people. "Tieguy" and "lr1937" are active/retired UPS management, and have absolutely nothing to do with the materials that are mailed to you and your fellow teamsters with the ballots. If there is any collusoin or nefarious activity here, the source is your brothers at the IBT. Your question should be directed to your steward, BA, Local President, etc, etc, etc.

 

[feedrman73]

robonono I guess the question was rhetorical. I fully understand the letter and its meaning. The letter is signed by both Hall and James Maloney so it could hardly be considered a Union plot. It is what it is. It is an agreement to allow UPS logistics to continue moving UPS freight. My point was tieguy accused me of making s##t up. His words not mine. And I simply wanted him to use managerial abilities to explain away the letter and its obvious purpose. I also understand that the reason this and the 2% loophole letter and the letter agreeing to much tougher rules for the pensions were not included, its because it would have meant a defeat of the contract. I am not a member of TDU but I will have to admit in this case they did a service by bringing these letters out of the closet I am sure they were intended to stay in. I love UPS it is one of the great companys to work for. That does not mean that it cant be improved or that we are exempt from bad management that one day might bring us down. On the subject of bad management these are a few of my thoughts on this. 1. Not washing our trucks is horrible. Jim Casey is turning over in his grave. The long term damage to our image is one of those things which cant be quantified on paper. 2. The fact new full-time sups are paid less than a full-time driver. This makes it nearly impossible to promote the people who actually know how to do the job. 3. The move away from making new sups drive a truck for at least 30 days. This happened several years ago and was a demand of Caseys. He felt every member of management should be reminded what makes the money. 4. The new worshipping of cost reduction at the expense of our customers. (no longer making an effort to make service on misloads even airs) 5. The fact the company allows the gross abuse of the DR rules. When I talk to people on the street and UPS comes up the biggest complaint I hear is that they found their package in the yard or at a front door that has not been used in years.( easily detected by an observant driver). 6. The fact the vast majority of our customer service people have never driven causes them to promise things that sometimes cant be delivered. The only thing worse is that I hear constant complaints that they called the cus serv dept and never heard back. I believe this is due to the fact a lot of our people are extremly overworked due to the cutback in management. These are just a few of the things that I think upper management ( atlanta) is allowing to happen that I think do not bode well for the company I have seen grow from 34 states when I started to 100's of countrys now.

 

[lr1937]

In my 29 years of service at UPS it is my obsevation that the vast majority of management is made up of the drivers who could not handle the work load.>>>>>>

I did see that you knew some good managers but this is what you said that I responded to. This is you statement in the last post.

You did however miss the part of my post in which I said I had dealt with very good management people to go along with those who basically took the management job because they could not hack the hourly one.
You said in your initial statement that the vast majority took management because they couldn't handle the work load as a driver which I disagree with. Your last post omitted the vast majority which to me means an overwelming number. I think you are overstating the the number of people in management who are there because they couldn't handle the work load as a driver. I believe it is an insult to all the hard working management people at ups. They may not manage the way you think they should but that does not mean they couln't handle the work load as a driver. Thats like me saying that the vast majority of drivers couldn't hack it in management. I believe you are in error when you stated the vast majority and I did not miss your comment regarding good managers. Which statement do you wish to stand behind the insult or the to go along with number.

I am not going to get into hourly rates or any other private financial information. I will tell you that over the long hall my financial gains would compare more than favorably with the numbers you presented for the two of you both per hour or any other financial barometer you wish to use.
In addition if tieguy hangs in there he will fanancially outperform you and your wife combined but then you will probably complain about management incentive or as some like to say the year end bonus and how management cheats you out of your "fair share".
I am done with this thread. I have stated my opinions and facts and you have stated yours. Lots of luck with having to go back to the hub or packages. Do you think you can handle the work load?

 

[feedrman73]

lr1937 As a 29 year driver with 200 drivers behind me I will be driving a feeder truck for my remaining 6 years. My wife only has 3 years left so she will be O.k. also. It is for my fellow UPS brothers and sisters at the bottom of the list that I worry about. I have never been one to say I got mine and I am not going to worry about any one else. As for my statement about sups at UPS. I fully stand behind my statement that the current crop of UPS management is made up of drivers who could not hack the work or part-time or off the street who never did the work. Back in the 70's and early 80's Management had some of our best people in it. This was done by requiring 100% of all management people to drive and actually deliver packages. And by paying above what an hourly person would be making. Now with the seriously reduced pay scale for starting management I believe we are getting a lower quality employee to take these jobs. This will ot be a problem in the future because in my area I have not seen any one promoted from full-time status in quite some time. Also I believe the majority of full-time sups I talk to that came from part-time regret their decision to not wait for full-time hourly. I believe to sum up my position best would be to say I think we used to have great management because we paid them great and 100% of the decision makers understood the business because they had "been there done that" Now however because we don't pay our management people as well and because we hire them straight out of school or part-time they are not as qualified as they should be. Something else to think about, many of the signs in whites creek have to be printed in spanish now due to the influx of newly imigrated workers and probably illegal ones. These are the ones willing to start at less than fast food pays. 85% of all future service providers will come from these ranks. Without in increase in the starting wage for part-time employees we are creating a situation that will bite us in the behind in 10 yrs or so. I blame the union for this one.

 

[wkmac]

Excellent post Feedrman73!
Very well said. You got my 5 star vote.

 

[feedrman73]

Thank you wkmac. I have complained about UPS and the new contract. If you take the time to actually read what I have said you could see that I really do like my company. It is a great place to work. Mainly because it is a UNION place to work. The union provides us with the job protections and work rules which make it a great job. However its UPS management that has made UPS the greatly successful and proffitable company that it is today. I simply think that the top management people in Atlanta have let our business plan drift to far from the service at all cost to a plan of proffits at all cost. We must return to a long range few of retaining customers through great service, having the cleanest best looking equipment and management that is as knowledgable and compensated at least as well as the drivers they supervise. The proffits will be there and will grow.

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

Well tieguy the contract also says that UPS can not use subcontractors and I have to file every year on this. Last peak we had atleast 15 contractors a day come in our yard when we had drivers working 1 to 3 days a week starving their Familys (UPS CORP GREED)I filed myself in november for over $10,000 and am still waiting for the case to be heard Our Labor manager keeps playing games I hope to get it resolved before this november. Oh Tie guy Im sure you say Im a TDU plant or I am making this up I have over 450 trailer #s and tractor#s too If you need som proof also a vidio tape of 7 contractors at our airport running loads 12 miles to our hub while I was sent home told we had no work. Im sure whatever I had you will not agree with me so I will just work as directed. (Ha Ha)

As far as UPS Logist. They are useing them now in KC and St Louis delivering whole truck loads staight to the cust. docks, also delivering 1 package at a time to the malls just like a Package Car Driver But wearing blue jeans. The packages have UPS Tracking labels. But I am to trust UPS. What can Brown do for You.

 

[tieguy]

Feel free to provide the proof. Better yet why not provide it to the Teamsters union and let them post it on their web page. That is if you have it?

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

Ok tieguy here is some of my proof vidio to follow . Contracters in Nov 2001 thru Jan 5 2002 loads to: EarMo,FarNd,BisNd,Denco,StevenspointWi,GviCa,MesTx,HouTx ,DalTx,MeaNj,Addil,ChiIl,PhiPa,MinMn,SpoWa,PorOr,OmaNe, ect all while we had drivers sitting at home (with their familys starving)some only working 1 day a week. We have had 5 drivers quit since peak and one more getting ready to shes looking. They were all tired of being screwed ,and had at least three to four years in full time ,unheard of people quiting a job like this one. I could get a copy of their green checks would that help no dont think it will but some other driver across the nation might find these #s usefull.

 

[tieguy]

okay , what format did you save this file in?

 

[tieguy]

so this was during peak in 2001 no ones working not even in delivery and the families are starving?

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

We had 5 to 10 feeder drivers only (and their familys)out of 120 drivers ,sitting at home on call willing and ready to work. By the way Management had corp. come in and do an audit of all the company computers after we came up with these numbers the thought someone in management gave us access to the computer we were that close. The thing is our #s should of been about a 1/10 of what contractors hit the gate.Just a bunch of dumb truck drivers by the way almost every computer out there has microsoft word. I will take time to send a short video clip later this week. Tieguy I know you will check it out thats what you getting paid to do. You are on all the time I dont think you are a part time sup.But any Full timer would not have the time you do unless you were on the clock.

 

[tieguy]

Not sure how 10 to 15 mins once or twice a day equates to being on all the time.

you never answered the question did those drivers work feeders one day a week and let their families starve or were they working in delivery?

 

[tieguy]

Again what format is this file saved as. It says spreadsheet but excel does not recognize it.

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

Microsoft word Our drivers are on call 24/7/365 not 10 or 15 min. a day like package car drivers and we can not work in package car unless we are laid off 5 days in a row we had three drivers that got informed on the contract this year and bumped first time in years. So regardless our feeder drivers were on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year unless they our out of hours or have a bid job for the week, and were waiting for the phone to ring(have gotten warning letters for missing just one phone call) but our manager was so pissed off because we threatened to file on the contractors , he used the contractors first told us that is what he was going to do and did it and had to pay green checks to them. (Those that did file ) Except me who of course I was one of the people informing our brothers and sisters what our rights were. well im still waiting (filed in november)for my pay off of $5000.00 to $10000.00 Im the only one waiting but all good things come to those who wait.

 

[bushwacker]

Thank you Feederdryver.

My vote is NO for all the reasons you gave. Tieguy or is that Lieguy...After 26 years with this company I've found that they are One-In-The-Same, and would have you believe that Uncle Buster really really would not lie to get what they want. We can all read there Lieguy so take your Lexus or other qualifing UPS management status moblie and drive it into a lake or something. Will talk again after this BS contract is voted down.

But have a nice day thinking it may be ratified by US.

 

[tieguy]

Wow, Lieguy another Meatwhacker that can't debate the points without resorting to the names. Meatwhacker you spent too much time behind the 7 eleven living up to your name and wasted your 26 years not learning a thing.

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

Ok tieguy here is a short clip for you, I didnt want to make it to big or it would take to long to upload . Keep in mind I had just punched out and was told we didnt have any work drove 10 or 12 miles to the airport on my way home to catch 7 single source trucks a local contractor moving emptys on the property and then hauling air loads from the airport to the hub 10 miles away all while we had drivers sitting at home working 1 to 2 days a week.

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

I coudnt get the video to up load so here are some stills can e-mail video

(Message edited by upsfeedersdsm on August 20, 2002)

 

[tieguy]

K, thing I don't understand is why you had to drive to the airport to catch this theft of union work. What did all the feeder drivers at the hub you say these loads went to have to say. They should have been able to get up close and personal and get detailed contractor information. If that did happen whats the company saying. Seems like moving air loads 10 miles from an airport to a hub would be a huge waste of money. If you want to believe that UPS won't follow the contract thats your choice but you have to believe their smarter with the dollar than to hire contractors to move loads 10 miles.