Government Motors

klein

Für Meno :)
Klein, you just don't get it--at this point in time electric and electric/gas cars simply do not make economic sense, even with the $7,500 tax credit. I thought about getting a Leaf but decided to get an Altima. 26 mpg in the city, 34 on the highway for $152/month on a 36 month lease. Hopefully in 3 years the technology will have advanced to the point where the price of these vehicles will be more reasonable.

I agree with you and Brett.
But, by nature I'm on the greener side of things. I recycle everything.
Besides, the US is lucky to only pay $3.70 gallon. Only Alberta has $4 something a gallon, all other provinces pay over $5/gal.
In Europe it's over $10/gallon.

But, I still love the GM 2 engine idea !
So, in other places of the world, electric cars do make sense, but I do agree they are still new, and technology will advance on them.
Like the new Toyota comming out next year, that gets 100 miles per charge.
And they will become cheaper, too - that's a no brainer.

But, I still love the GM 2-engine idea !
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
It's funny that you mentioned Ford Focus.....we bought our daughter a car back in '03 and got a Focus (4door) and that thing is going strong for her. Just oil changes and it keeps on running. It's been a great buy and it's served her well.
 
I agree with you and Brett.
But, by nature I'm on the greener side of things. I recycle everything.
Besides, the US is lucky to only pay $3.70 gallon. Only Alberta has $4 something a gallon, all other provinces pay over $5/gal.
In Europe it's over $10/gallon.

But, I still love the GM 2 engine idea !
So, in other places of the world, electric cars do make sense, but I do agree they are still new, and technology will advance on them.
Like the new Toyota comming out next year, that gets 100 miles per charge.
And they will become cheaper, too - that's a no brainer.

But, I still love the GM 2-engine idea !
Don't know of any two engine automobile for public use.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
db7d3_engine_2.jpg


See the front part ? That's your 2 electric electric motors , the back part is the 1.4ltr 4 cyl motor.

That's the GM Volt dual engine, I would call it.
The Volt engine also charges up the battery when running on gasoline, too, thru the above technology.

Chevy Volt Engine Kevin Hand
A look at the inner workings of GM’s plug-in car
In principle,the Chevrolet Volt is simple:It’s an electric car with a gas-powered generator for backup. Yet the machinery under the hood is complex. The overarching goal is to wring maximum miles out of the Volt’s lithium-ion battery and,when gasoline is necessary,to use it frugally. This requires the Volt’s drivetrain-composed of two electric motors,a gasoline engine,three clutches and a planetary gearset-to blend power from different sources to find the perfect balance in every driving situation. Here’s how it happens.

One-Motor EV Mode
Driving around town at up to approximately 40 mph,power flows from the 400-pound,16-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery to a large permanent-magnet motor,which moves the car.

Two-Motor EV Mode
The harder you push the car,the more stressed the primary motor becomes-until a second,smaller motor joins in,allowing the larger one to spin more slowly. The two motors connect
to the planetary gearset,which blends power from the pair into torque that drives the car.

One-Motor Extended-Range Mode
Between 25 and 50 miles into your drive,the battery will dip to 35 percent charge,and the gas engine will start. Here,the gas engine drives the small electric motor,using it to generate electricity (an electric motor run backward is a generator) to sustain the battery’s charge.

Two-Motor Extended-Range Mode
With the battery low,at highway speeds,the primary electric motor continues to drive the car. But now the gasoline engine mechanically connects to and powers the secondary electric motor,which in turn helps the primary motor drive the wheels.


Verdict
Critics have argued that,because under some circumstances the gas engine helps power the wheels,the Volt is nothing new-a glorified Prius. But that’s not true. Efficient as it is,the Prius is a primarily gas-powered car. The Volt,in contrast,always drives like an electric car,and for up to 50 miles a day you’ll never burn a drop of gas.
 
Oh I see...that would actually be one internal-combustion ENGINE and two electric motors.... electric motors are not considered engines bit engines can be considered motors.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link WK. I have been saying this from the begining that we will never get our money back from GM. When our gooberment announced they would sell shares below the 53.00 break even point i knew that was the nail in the coffin. Today the shares are at 30.82 well below the IPO price. Now the question will be...will the main stream media let the tax payers know this or will they sweep in under a rug as not to tarnish the Messiah image?

You might like this as well.

President Obama and two of his biggest union allies -- the United Auto Workers and the United Steelworkers -- plan to make the automotive bailout "a central issue" in the 2012 election, Politico reports. Republicans should view this as an opportunity. No issue better illustrates the deception, cronyism, disregard for the rule of law, and bad economic decisions of this White House than the auto bailouts. On Tuesday, Obama announced that Chrysler had paid back all "outstanding loans to the U.S. Treasury and American taxpayers." This is highly misleading. American taxpayers still own a 6.6 percent stake in Chrysler, which cost them nearly $2 billion. Chrysler would have to be worth six times its current value ($5 billion) for the government to break even.
Obama's statement also conveniently forgets the $1.9 billion loan that was erased when Chrysler declared bankruptcy in 2009, and the additional $1.5 billion loaned to Chrysler's suppliers. And don't forget that the only way Chrysler could secure the money to pay off the Treasury loan was by getting Obama Energy Secretary Steven Chu to promise the company an additional $3.5 billion for energy-efficient vehicles. In reality, Chrysler is simply in the process of substituting one government loan for another.
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Yeah and the non-union companies who sell ****boxes and keep their costs low have the same drunks and druggies doing the work, except their booze is bottom shelf and their stuff is homegrown because they cannot afford to buy it.

So what was the point of this thread after all?

I'm not so sure I would go that far and say that the non union competition are paid slave wages for their work. In Greensburg, IN Honda built a new manufacturing facility with wages averaging in the $24/hr range. Considering Greensburg is a mostly rural Indiana town wages like that go a very long way.

This thread is mostly dedicated to showing how GM and Chrysler were not worthy of the government bailouts they received. In the eat or be eaten world of industry they should have disappeared rather than propped up by taxpayer dollars. While both companies talk a big game about improving themselves and their products they have yet to produce on these claims. Their overall quality levels have still lagged behind those of their still private competition and their products are generally subpar especially when compared to their foreign competition. Lets not also forget the precedent set here regarding large companies and government bailouts. Now these companies and others can pretty much bet the farm on whatever crazy idea that comes down the pike because they have no real fear of failure. If it doesn't work out and they lose the government will always be there to bail them out. Where is the desire to improve and succeed when there is no real threat of failure?
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I'm surprised there wasn't more screaming than there was. How do you decide which company gets saved/rescued ?? A company that's badly managed should suffer the natural consequences. If you are too stupid to see trends in the industry, then maybe you are in the wrong line of work.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
I'm surprised there wasn't more screaming than there was. How do you decide which company gets saved/rescued ?? A company that's badly managed should suffer the natural consequences. If you are too stupid to see trends in the industry, then maybe you are in the wrong line of work.

Moreluck,

Trends in the industry?? Lets see, under clinton, domestic auto production was at the highest levels in history. Domestic auto sales dominated the industry. Oil was hovering at bucks a barrel steady for 8 years, unlike under Reagan and Bush were oil went from 6 bucks a barrel to 22 bucks a barrel in 12 years. During the 12 year period of Reagan Bush, domestic auto sales fell to foriegn competition and the majority of auto sales were japanese.

During Clinton, domestic production was being stepped up, new jobs were created and demand for high ticket vehicles was skyrocketing.

During that time, NOT ONE PERSON in this industry or this country anticipated that in 2000 under GW BUSH and the republican held congress, that oil per barrel would SKYROCKET 400% in the first 2 years killing the domestic auto industry.

Same thing happened during Reagan.. With his rise in oil from 6 bucks a barrel to 15 bucks a barrel, domestic companies failed and went out of business. More failed under Bush 1.

Under GW BUSH , domestic auto companies again failed with the ridiculous price per barrel.

Once oil retreated in the last year of bush for the november elections, it held steady for 2 years before launching again to 115 dollars per barrel. In the meantime, under OBama, our domestic auto makers are taking back huge chunks of marketshare and once again selling good products that people want.

AS long as oil can stay near 80 bucks a barrel, the domestic auto industry can survive.

The bailouts helped 2 companies turn a profit and pay back the goverment with interest.

Ford, opted NOT to take a bailout, but chose to MORTGAGE their recovery through loans they were able to secure through the private industry. PEOPLE believe they did not need a bailout, but they did. They were able to secure financing whereas GM and Chrysler were unable to secure financing.

Either way, anytime we can save american jobs we need to do it. The opposite of saving them at the workplace only ends up costing us three times as much in unemployment insurance.

Moreluck, the only thing stupid in this conversation is anyone who doesnt understand the industry as a whole.

Peace.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Moreluck,

Trends in the industry?? Lets see, under clinton, domestic auto production was at the highest levels in history. Domestic auto sales dominated the industry. Oil was hovering at bucks a barrel steady for 8 years, unlike under Reagan and Bush were oil went from 6 bucks a barrel to 22 bucks a barrel in 12 years. During the 12 year period of Reagan Bush, domestic auto sales fell to foriegn competition and the majority of auto sales were japanese.

During Clinton, domestic production was being stepped up, new jobs were created and demand for high ticket vehicles was skyrocketing.

During that time, NOT ONE PERSON in this industry or this country anticipated that in 2000 under GW BUSH and the republican held congress, that oil per barrel would SKYROCKET 400% in the first 2 years killing the domestic auto industry.

Same thing happened during Reagan.. With his rise in oil from 6 bucks a barrel to 15 bucks a barrel, domestic companies failed and went out of business. More failed under Bush 1.

Under GW BUSH , domestic auto companies again failed with the ridiculous price per barrel.

Once oil retreated in the last year of bush for the november elections, it held steady for 2 years before launching again to 115 dollars per barrel. In the meantime, under OBama, our domestic auto makers are taking back huge chunks of marketshare and once again selling good products that people want.

AS long as oil can stay near 80 bucks a barrel, the domestic auto industry can survive.

The bailouts helped 2 companies turn a profit and pay back the goverment with interest.

Ford, opted NOT to take a bailout, but chose to MORTGAGE their recovery through loans they were able to secure through the private industry. PEOPLE believe they did not need a bailout, but they did. They were able to secure financing whereas GM and Chrysler were unable to secure financing.

Either way, anytime we can save american jobs we need to do it. The opposite of saving them at the workplace only ends up costing us three times as much in unemployment insurance.

Moreluck, the only thing stupid in this conversation is anyone who doesnt understand the industry as a whole.

Peace.
Well, aren't you the little Lee Iacocca ???? Trends in the industry meant....quit building the damn Hummers and SUV's when everybody was shopping for the green stuff. Ford wised up....they did Focus and rather successfully. They deserve to still be in business. GM paid back a loan with a loan. Why can't you people like Klein & you get that through your thick heads?
Get a new credit card and pay off your old credit cards is NOT paying off the debt!!
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Well, aren't you the little Lee Iacocca ???? Trends in the industry meant....quit building the damn Hummers and SUV's when everybody was shopping for the green stuff. Ford wised up....they did Focus and rather successfully. They deserve to still be in business. GM paid back a loan with a loan. Why can't you people like Klein & you get that through your thick heads?
Get a new credit card and pay off your old credit cards is NOT paying off the debt!!

Again, madaam oblivious, you are incorrect. GM went public with its new stock and PAID 50% of its debt to the goverment with PROFITS. Maybe you missed the IPO? Oh yeah, fox business was busy bashing OBAMA rather than covering actual business news. Maybe you should switch to another business channel, eh? (<--- that was canadian!)

As the new GM stock continues to rise, it pays off its remaning debt to the goverment. Is this a hard concept to grasp?

Why not let your hatred for Obama go for a moment and try using FACTS in your posts. Just sayin'.

Peace
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Try again madaam.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-to-buy-2-8b-in-stock-from-treasury-pay-off-billions-more-in-debt.html

General Motors Co. has repaid the $8.1 billion in loans it got from the U.S. and Canadian governments, a move its CEO says is a sign automaker is on the road to recovery.
DETROIT -- General Motors Co. has repaid the $8.1 billion in loans it got from the U.S. and Canadian governments, a move its CEO says is a sign automaker is on the road to recovery.
GM CEO Whitacre formally announced the loan paybacks Wednesday at the company's Fairfax Assembly Plant in Kansas City, Kansas, where he also announced that GM is investing $257 million in that factory and the Detroit-Hamtramck plant, both of which will build the next generation of the midsize Chevrolet Malibu.
GM got a total of $52 billion from the U.S. government and $9.5 billion from the Canadian and Ontario governments as it went through bankruptcy protection last year. The U.S. considered as a loan $6.7 billion of the aid, while the Canadian governments held $1.4 billion in loans.
The U.S. government payments, made Tuesday, came five years ahead of schedule, and Whitacre said they are a sign that the automaker is on its way toward reducing government ownership of the company. The payments on the Canadian loans were also made Tuesday.
GM still owes $45.3 billion to the U.S. and $8.1 billion to Canada, money it received in exchange for large stakes in the company. The U.S. government now owns 61 percent of the company and Canada owns roughly 12 percent. GM plans to repay both with a public stock offering, perhaps later this year.

Nobody was happy that GM needed government loans — not the governments, not the taxpayers and, quite frankly, not the company," Whitacre wrote in an op-ed article that appeared on The Wall Street Journal's Web site Tuesday night. "We believe we can best thank the citizens of the U.S. and Canada by making sure that their investments are hard at work every day, building high quality, fuel-efficient vehicles."
The factory investments in Kansas and Michigan will not create any new jobs, but will preserve jobs at both plants. The Kansas plant, which employs 3,869 workers, also builds the midsize Buick LaCrosse luxury sedan. The Detroit-Hamtramck plant, which has 1,048 employees, now builds the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne large sedans and is gearing up to make the Chevrolet Volt rechargeable electric car.
During the financial crisis that led to GM filing for bankruptcy protection last year, the automaker closed 14 factories and shed more than 65,000 blue-collar jobs in the U.S. through buyouts, early retirement offers and layoffs. The company now employs about 40,000 hourly workers in the U.S.
Preserving jobs at the two GM plants won't help the nation's unemployment picture, but it won't make it worse.
Employers nationwide in March added 162,000 jobs, the most in three years. But the pace of the economic recovery and job creation won't be robust enough to quickly drive down the unemployment rate. It's been stuck at 9.7 percent for three months, close to its highest levels since the 1980s.
GM had made about $2 billion in loan payments to the U.S. government and $384 million to Canada in December and March, and had promised to repay the full loans by June. But company officials have said its cash flow, mainly from the sales of newer models, has been better than expected, allowing it to make the remaining $5.8 billion in payments early.
Repaying the loans has been a top priority for Whitacre.
GM officials say the company's public stock offering will take place when the markets and the company are ready. They will not predict how much of the remaining government debt will be repaid from the stock offering, but said it likely will take years for the governments to divest themselves fully.
The stock offering hinges on GM posting a profit, which Whitacre has said could come this year. GM lost $3.4 billion in the fourth quarter of 2009 on revenues of $32.3 billion. After the event at the Kansas City plant on Wednesday, Whitacre heads to Washington, where he is scheduled to meet with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other lawmakers.


Maybe soon, you will realize FOXED SPEWS distorts your thinking with phoney facts and leaves you behind the rest of the countries understanding of bailouts and repayments.

Peace.
 
Top