Government Motors
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
brett636
Well-Known Member
TOS, has been on here off and on for at least 3 years as I recall in the summer of 2008 proving him wrong regarding the heller case. TOS assured me heller's arguments were weak and he was going to lose. He won, and won big for our country.
Lue C Fur
Evil member
Some on the left want to blow smoke and say that GM and Chrysler have paid back the loans but even the Messiah and the Gooberment now admit we probably will never get back the tax dollars spent to bail them out. Remember when Barry said "this will not cost tax payers a dime"? Hey Obama we all know that was:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303745304576359530678869402.html?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303745304576359530678869402.html?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs
brett636
Well-Known Member
That's the beauty of the free market. It may sting for awhile, but someone will come in to fill the void. And where do you get this 3 million crap from? Gm didn't employ anywhere near that many people in its heyday 4 decades ago.
klein
Für Meno :)
GM, Chrysler & Ford would have had to close, among all the suppliers and dealerships.
The suppliers would have shut down and caused Ford to close, too.
No more made in America cars at all. Toyota and other foreign built cars made in USA may have had to shut down, too !
The 3 Million figure was often mentioned in the media, back then.
The suppliers would have shut down and caused Ford to close, too.
No more made in America cars at all. Toyota and other foreign built cars made in USA may have had to shut down, too !
The 3 Million figure was often mentioned in the media, back then.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Ford was never part of the bailout, a few years earlier they had trimmed their dealerships down. GM & Chrysler had to much products and no handy cash.
It is called survival of the fittest and Ford would have won, but for the known fact that bhos had the courts change the rules for bankruptcy.
All the other car makers never needed any part of the bailout also, so they too would still be around.
Did you hear that Porsche is building a plant in GA ?
klein
Für Meno :)
No, didn't hear Porsche in building a plant in the US.
I guess I can soon no longer say Porsche is made in my home city in Germany, like Mercedes is, too (Stuttgart).
Surprises me actually. Like why now, When the USA isn't do that well, and less money is out there ?
They should have done that decades ago, when the good times were there !
I guess I can soon no longer say Porsche is made in my home city in Germany, like Mercedes is, too (Stuttgart).
Surprises me actually. Like why now, When the USA isn't do that well, and less money is out there ?
They should have done that decades ago, when the good times were there !
klein
Für Meno :)
Porsche did a good move I think.
Germans under 30 years of age get 5 weeks vacation, over 30 6 weeks vacation, and over 50 or 55 7 weeks vacation.
(Vacation does not go by seniorty there, but by age).
Plus they have to pay wages in Euros, and the low US dollar makes the manufacturing cheaper in the US, plus all the savings on shipping costs.
Good for GA !
Germans under 30 years of age get 5 weeks vacation, over 30 6 weeks vacation, and over 50 or 55 7 weeks vacation.
(Vacation does not go by seniorty there, but by age).
Plus they have to pay wages in Euros, and the low US dollar makes the manufacturing cheaper in the US, plus all the savings on shipping costs.
Good for GA !
Brett,
I realize most of you on the right dont understand how the business communities work, but GM and its "business" partners employ close to 4 million people. Where do you think all the parts come from? All over the country and mexico, canada and japan. The distributors of parts alone employ close to 1 million people all by themselves.
Those on the right focus ONLY on GM and its assembly plants and yes, they do not employ 4 million people.
Everyone from the assembly line, to the truckers who carry the cars, to the paint companies who make the paints, to the tire companies who make the tires to everything else you can name, millions of people are employed.
FOXED SPEWS will do their best to "focus" your attention solely to the assembly lines and say things like "It may sting for awhile, but someone will come in to fill the void". REALLY?
When was the last time in 10 years where you saw any company come in and fill the void of millions of jobs in this country?
Why is it, that republicans are so dead against american companies that they would rather see them fail and go out of business and then import cars from another country and send our hard earned money overseas?
You say fill the void, but when have you seen a new american car company start up and produce american cars and compete with exisiting domestic auto sales?
This isnt a "free" market. There is nothing free about it. It costs americans thousands of jobs a year everytime a new foreign car is introduced to our country.
Prior to Reagan, domestic car companies dominated the total us auto sales market holding close to 89% market share. In 1980, Reagan allowed the japanese to flood our shores with smaller cars and trucks totally unregulated and that put several domestic car makers out of business in 8 years. By 1988, the japanese held 75% of total market share of cars sold in the U.S. By the end of 1991 (GH BUSH) more japanese auto makers were importing cars and trucks without restrictions and they came close to holding 81% of market share here in the united states.
In 2000, one of the first things Bill Clinton did was REGULATE how many cars and trucks could be imported into the US and he put the CLAMPS on the japanese. He worked with the remaining auto makers and made one simple demand. If they improved the quality of cars and trucks, improved the gas mileage, he would protect US market share by placing limitations on the japanese. By the year 2000, the big three domestic auto makers held 72% of market share once again.
The big three were all that was left of our auto industry.
In 2000, GW BUSH lifted those restrictions clinton placed on importers and more lines of cars hit our shores. This time, the koreans started flooding our shores with cars and trucks as well as new japanese brands.
Today, the japanese hold almost 70% of market share with european auto makers and domestic auto makers tied for second.
Oil prices dictate what cars people are buying today, and the smaller foreign junk is what people want now. I agree, the big three need to change the business models to compete, but putting them out of business isnt the way to do it.
It would cost the taxpayers millions more, if not billions to pay the unemployment insurance, health coverage and dont forget, PBGC coverage for all pensions that would get dumped into it when these companies folded.
The republicans "trick" you into believing a failed policy, like "It may sting for awhile, but someone will come in to fill the void"
The only ones filling the "voids' will be YOU, MORELUCK and the others who's tax dollars will go to paying all the entitlements the goverment will have to shell out when these companies folded.
Thats the beauty of it.
Peace.
brett636
Well-Known Member
First you marxists claim we conservatives are too close to the business community, but now we know nothing about it and you're the expert? Give me a break...
Your right here. GM employs 173,000 people as per this article.
No, its 173,000. For comparison sake UPS employs close to 400,000 people. UPS going out of business would be a bigger economic hit to our country then losing GM or Chrysler.
Their information is definitely more accurate than yours, even if it isn't perfect. And yes, someone will eventually come in to fill the void. This may come as a shock to you, but more than just auto workers purchase cars. People still need to get from place to place and the demand for cars will still exist even after GM and Chrysler are gone. Someone at some point will have to step up and fill that demand or charge a lot more for their cars if they can't. Its the old age Supply versus demand principle.
Do you mean 173,000 because that is all GM employs here. Considering the number of import brands that are building plants here I would say that isn't going to take long. Honda has a plant in Greensburg, IN that is adding a 2nd shift and will require 1000 more people. VW is about to open a plant in Chattanooga, TN employing thousands there. BMW has a plant in South Carolina and so on. I could go on for a long while but the point is imports are being built here while domestics continue to move their production offshore. Gee, wonder what their motivation is for that?
Conservatives like myself want to see American companies succeed, but only if they can do so on their own. Getting propped up by the government is no way for a business to exist.
I have seen plenty of import brands step up and open factories here in the U.S. Thats good enough for me.
You mean like a BMW Z4 which is produced in South Carolina? Or what may be my next car which is the new VW Passat which will be produced in Chattanooga, TN? Or the Toyota Tundra which is built in San Antonio, TX? Or the Subaru forester which is built in Indiana? How about the F150? Oh yea, its built in Mexico. My bad....
Where do you come up with this crap? GM's marketshare has been declining since the late 70s when it had over 51% of the U.S. market. Now its under 25% of I am not mistaken. Silly Marxist, come back with some verifiable and authentic numbers if your going to debate me.
The Koreans have always been here, but they finally pulled their heads out of their rear ends and began building respectable and durable cars.
If you don't have a source for these kind of numbers then don't post them. You just look like an even bigger fool.
The smaller foreign cars are the ones getting the better fuel economy. Even the mighty Volt can only muster 36 mpg on the highway while my next car the VW Passat is supposed to get 43. Ford is getting it right by getting its cars into the 40 mpg range while GM still is trying to figure out who its going to sucker into buying its Volt.
A small price to pay for a stronger auto industry. Now we have two domestic companies which are existing totally on welfare claiming to be making the cars people want to buy when the opposite is true. Its time to let these dinosaurs die like they were meant to so a real auto company can step up and take over.
klein
Für Meno :)
I sure hope you like driving other Government Motors !
You ever done any research on your great foreign cars ?
Like Volkswagen (3rd Reich Government car), also got a German bail out when the Beetle sales dropped to almost next to nothing in the 70's.
I wonder how much government money went into the Japs, Korean, Chinese cars ?
But, I suppose as long as it's not the American Government, it's ok to buy any other government subsidized car (at 1 point or another).
You ever done any research on your great foreign cars ?
Like Volkswagen (3rd Reich Government car), also got a German bail out when the Beetle sales dropped to almost next to nothing in the 70's.
I wonder how much government money went into the Japs, Korean, Chinese cars ?
But, I suppose as long as it's not the American Government, it's ok to buy any other government subsidized car (at 1 point or another).
Lue C Fur
Evil member
Lue C Fur
Evil member
I did not know Amerrican Tax Dollars went in to bail out those companies...thanks for all your massive knowledge and wisdom. LOL
By the way, its Japanese not "Japs"...saying "Japs" is very rude...but you should know that right?
klein
Für Meno :)
If your soo much against government subsidizing, then start at the bottom and see how it'll work out.
Such as ending all farm subsidies (if they have a bad crop 1 year) let them go under, other farmers will fill the void, until ofcourse there land gets flooded or has a draught season.
So, you should stop eating veggies, fruits, and meat, dairy, poultry products made in the USA.
The likelyhood of any of the above has been subsidized is 100% !
Oh yeah, don't forget to stop watching pro-sports, too, and never ever host any Olympics anymore, either.
This list could go on and on, but I bet the Twilight 10 just won't get it, anyways.
Such as ending all farm subsidies (if they have a bad crop 1 year) let them go under, other farmers will fill the void, until ofcourse there land gets flooded or has a draught season.
So, you should stop eating veggies, fruits, and meat, dairy, poultry products made in the USA.
The likelyhood of any of the above has been subsidized is 100% !
Oh yeah, don't forget to stop watching pro-sports, too, and never ever host any Olympics anymore, either.
This list could go on and on, but I bet the Twilight 10 just won't get it, anyways.
trplnkl
555
What we do get is natural disasters are nothing like bad business decisions.
