GROUND IS TAKING OVER EXPRESS

[vantexan]

You might have something there. The federal court ruling that backed up the placement of Fedex under the RLA was in 1996, two years before Fat Freddy bought RPS from Roadway. Granted Ground is reported as a separate OPCO but when you combine the movement of Express labeled shipments through Ground along with the reporting of operating results to the Securities And Exchange Commission under a consolidated operating results format in accordance with GAAP rules......then yeah, I can't see how there will NOT be questions if not future court challenges regarding X's continued right to that exemption.

Aren't they both under the same umbrella corporation with the same stock representing them? And aren't the only company Ground employees management, handlers, office personnel? Not the actual drivers? And have already had the argument where people here actually believe that a major corporation wouldn't cover itself in every legal way possible before making a change of such magnitude. You like to talk about how stupid people are then turn around and speculate as to whether FedEx is in violation of the RLA on matters they are being totally transparent about. Mind numbing.

 

[bbsam]

I disagree on the opened can of worms scenario you offer.
As long as the US mail is involved I believe congress will extend the exemption for express.

Bottom line, in my estimation, to get Fedex's attention, it would take a nationwide no show by couriers. (as soon as you clowns can propagate some nuts, get busy, you're on the clock.)

At this time they (Fedex) are not able to pass P1 to a contracted ground owner for timely delivery.

In time, they will (just as they were forced to prematurely pass some P2 to @bbsam contractor) pass the rest, on their time schedule.

They will not destroy their brand.

@59 Dano, @bbsam,

Fedex Express will end up being a total air op and sorting operation with final mile delivered by contractors such as Sam.

What say you both?

I think it will remain fluid and adaptable to whatever the economy dictates and generates the most profit for Fedex. For the foreseeable future that is minimizing Express and maximizing Ground. As they downsize Express, there comes an event horizon of sorts where any threat of Express unionization becomes moot because switching it all to the Ground opco becomes such a minute shift.

And yes, I know all about the time commits and the call in pickups and all the “reasons” Ground can’t do this or that. And maybe they are right today. But as ground grows in density, all that becomes more possible. And what if Ground contractors start making more? What if drivers go from making $16 per hour on average to $21? They still aren’t getting any kind of decent health insurance in most cases so how much is the company still saving over Express employees doing the same job. And with the routing technology available, and looking purely at the business needs, who the hell wants an employee who stays for 30 to 40 years? This isn’t an industry that is physically kind.

 

[bacha29]

Aren't they both under the same umbrella corporation with the same stock representing them? And aren't the only company Ground employees management, handlers, office personnel? Not the actual drivers? And have already had the argument where people here actually believe that a major corporation wouldn't cover itself in every legal way possible before making a change of such magnitude. You like to talk about how stupid people are then turn around and speculate as to whether FedEx is in violation of the RLA on matters they are being totally transparent about. Mind numbing.

I never said anything about anybody being stupid but much about that company's structure has changed considerably over the years and the extent to which the legal ramifications have been studied is something that neither one of us knows including simply proceeding on the basis of having to try something in an attempt to reverse the decline despite the potential litigation.

 

[bacha29]

I think it will remain fluid and adaptable to whatever the economy dictates and generates the most profit for Fedex. For the foreseeable future that is minimizing Express and maximizing Ground. As they downsize Express, there comes an event horizon of sorts where any threat of Express unionization becomes moot because switching it all to the Ground opco becomes such a minute shift.

And yes, I know all about the time commits and the call in pickups and all the “reasons” Ground can’t do this or that. And maybe they are right today. But as ground grows in density, all that becomes more possible. And what if Ground contractors start making more? What if drivers go from making $16 per hour on average to $21? They still aren’t getting any kind of decent health insurance in most cases so how much is the company still saving over Express employees doing the same job. And with the routing technology available, and looking purely at the business needs, who the hell wants an employee who stays for 30 to 40 years? This isn’t an industry that is physically kind.

Then why would anybody want to go to work for someone to begin with if they know that in the end they will simply be disposed of and tossed back out into the economy to fend for themselves at a point in their lives when their chances for new employment would be significantly lower ?

Furthermore stagnant wages and zero benefits certainly does a lot to recruit new employees now doesn't it? In fact I told several people who went to work for contractors at my station,......."Just remember, what you're making the first day you're there is what you're going to be making the last day you're there".

Ran across one a couple of weeks ago. He said to me...."You're right. I am making the same as I was when I started and I've been doing this now for more than 5 years".

So if you Express guys think that's it's hard to make it up the wage progression ladder working for Express, just try working for a contractor.

 

[bbsam]

Then why would anybody want to go to work for someone to begin with if they know that in the end they will simply be disposed of and tossed back out into the economy to fend for themselves at a point in their lives when their chances for new employment would be significantly lower ?

Furthermore stagnant wages and zero benefits certainly does a lot to recruit new employees now doesn't it? In fact I told several people who went to work for contractors at my station,......."Just remember, what you're making the first day you're there is what you're going to be making the last day you're there".

Ran across one a couple of weeks ago. He said to me...."You're right. I am making the same as I was when I started and I've been doing this now for more than 5 years".

So if you Express guys think that's it's hard to make it up the wage progression ladder working for Express, just try working for a contractor.

Because people think in the now. “It’s a job now. I’ll find a better one later...”

happens all the time and before you know it 25 years have passed. Maybe the job got better. Maybe it didn’t.
Happens all the time.

 

[MrFedEx]

It's not judging to point out what the Bible says is wrong to do.

Sure. Justify judging, and then say it's not wrong per the book that says only God judges.

 

[zeev]

I think it will remain fluid and adaptable to whatever the economy dictates and generates the most profit for Fedex. For the foreseeable future that is minimizing Express and maximizing Ground. As they downsize Express, there comes an event horizon of sorts where any threat of Express unionization becomes moot because switching it all to the Ground opco becomes such a minute shift.

And yes, I know all about the time commits and the call in pickups and all the “reasons” Ground can’t do this or that. And maybe they are right today. But as ground grows in density, all that becomes more possible. And what if Ground contractors start making more? What if drivers go from making $16 per hour on average to $21? They still aren’t getting any kind of decent health insurance in most cases so how much is the company still saving over Express employees doing the same job. And with the routing technology available, and looking purely at the business needs, who the hell wants an employee who stays for 30 to 40 years? This isn’t an industry that is physically kind.

Ground has always been the ace in the hole, JB hunt has strengthened their by subsidizing their contractors to keep them. Ground can take all of Express with the right resources the only problem is management doesn’t want to lose Express because the contractors model reduces greatly the management overhead.

 

[vantexan]

I never said anything about anybody being stupid but much about that company's structure has changed considerably over the years and the extent to which the legal ramifications have been studied is something that neither one of us knows including simply proceeding on the basis of having to try something in an attempt to reverse the decline despite the potential litigation.

Mea Culpa. I forgot who I was replying to and meant that for MrFedEx. At any rate the market is in free fall so doubt at the moment anything FedEx does will have an impact for awhile.

 

[vantexan]

Because people think in the now. “It’s a job now. I’ll find a better one later...”

happens all the time and before you know it 25 years have passed. Maybe the job got better. Maybe it didn’t.
Happens all the time.

With inflation better hope their pay goes up over 25 years. If not that's where the contractor is truly making it.

 

[vantexan]

Sure. Justify judging, and then say it's not wrong per the book that says only God judges.

Nope, we are told not to do certain things and to warn others that their soul is in danger if they do those things. Even to shun them if they refuse. That's not judging.

 

[MrFedEx]

Nope, we are told not to do certain things and to warn others that their soul is in danger if they do those things. Even to shun them if they refuse. That's not judging.

Sure. And on the other subject, is this the same FDX that was successfully sued numerous times over the Ground business model?

Yes. Pretty sure it's the same place with the same bad Legal Dept.

 

[MrFedEx]

Nope, we are told not to do certain things and to warn others that their soul is in danger if they do those things. Even to shun them if they refuse. That's not judging.

OK. Your soul is in danger for lying on behalf of Trump, judging LGBTQ, and for lying with women before marriage.

Bullet Train straight to the Lake of Fire. Maybe you and Dano can get adjoining condos.

HypoChristian.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Ground has always been the ace in the hole, JB hunt has strengthened their by subsidizing their contractors to keep them. Ground can take all of Express with the right resources the only problem is management doesn’t want to lose Express because the contractors model reduces greatly the management overhead.

If FedEx wants to surrender the NDA market to UPS, then sure.

NDA works because of the extreme control both UPS and FedEx have over the process. FedEx loses that control with ISP.

 

[bacha29]

Because people think in the now. “It’s a job now. I’ll find a better one later...”

happens all the time and before you know it 25 years have passed. Maybe the job got better. Maybe it didn’t.
Happens all the time.

A lack of commitment from the employer is often rewarded with a lack of commitment from the employee. A shortage of that focus and commitment in light of the volume shift to ground and the increased precision demands that goes with it well........it should come as no surprise if the results are just not there and chances are quite a number of contractors both big and small are going to be held accountable.

It only stands to reason that the expectation of a person that he go out there and bust his rectum matching the production of UPS and the precision of Express for the kind of wages you guys are paying is complete nonsense.

 

[bbsam]

A lack of commitment from the employer is often rewarded with a lack of commitment from the employee. A shortage of that focus and commitment in light of the volume shift to ground and the increased precision demands that goes with it well........it should come as no surprise if the results are just not there and chances are quite a number of contractors both big and small are going to be held accountable.

It only stands to reason that the expectation of a person that he go out there and bust his rectum matching the production of UPS and the precision of Express for the kind of wages you guys are paying is complete nonsense.

Again, bacha, for someone who claims to understand the model so well, you have no idea what the model involves.

 

[vantexan]

Sure. And on the other subject, is this the same FDX that was successfully sued numerous times over the Ground business model?

Yes. Pretty sure it's the same place with the same bad Legal Dept.

And yet they are still in business. Hmmmmm......

 

[vantexan]

OK. Your soul is in danger for lying on behalf of Trump, judging LGBTQ, and for lying with women before marriage.

Bullet Train straight to the Lake of Fire. Maybe you and Dano can get adjoining condos.

HypoChristian.

Nope, I ask for forgiveness when I do something wrong, and try not to. Big difference between that and doing whatever you please and refusing to change. No Christian is perfect, but God judges their heart.

 

[Cactus]

Again, bacha, for someone who claims to understand the model so well, you have no idea what the model involves.

Exploitation of drivers for one.

 

[bbsam]

With inflation better hope their pay goes up over 25 years. If not that's where the contractor is truly making it.

40% of Americans are Trump supporters. You think they think that deeply?

 

[bacha29]

Again, bacha, for someone who claims to understand the model so well, you have no idea what the model involves.

I know enough about to know that it requires a mountain of cheap labor that actually gives a flying fornication willing to look past the pittance they're being paid to take governance over his or her assigned route and service it in a productive and professional manner.......And there's only just so much of it available in a given geographical area. A lesson taught by last year's peak that X seems to believe was a once and done occurrence .