Hand Gun

[dilligaf]

I started to post an excerpt from one of our manuals but have changesd my mind. Due to the recent issue that has developed with Steve, I will tell you this. It states very clearly that NO employee may carry a gun on property. Any UPSer can find this info on UPSers.com. It is under Code of Business Conduct.

Az law states that any non public entity, including businesses and homeowners may post (or ask) 'no weapons allowed' and all individuals must follow this. This includes CCW holders. These laws are separate from laws that govern city county and state buildings in AZ.

In AZ, by law I have to comply with UPS's policy on the non-carry of guns. Each state has their own individual gun laws and I would advice that each person interested in learning what these laws are contact their own local government entities or visit a local gun shop. Most gunshops will be up-to-date on the local laws.

If any UPSer wishes to know how to access the correct info, please PM me.

 

[dilligaf]

In theory, the company is free to ban posession of weapons in cars parked on their property.

However, without a search warrant or probable cause of criminal activity, they do not have the right to search a locked vehicle.

We have been told that we cant have guns in our cars in the UPS parking lot----but come out there on the Friday night before opening morning of hunting season and you will see dozens of trucks with campers, trailers ect. all loaded up with gear and ready to head to the hills as soon as their owners (Some of whom are management) clock off. Something tells me that there might be a deer rifle or two in those rigs.

Bottom line---its a rule, but it is not enforceable.

Sober, it is enforceable depending on your local laws.

 

[gandydancer]

... Bottom line---its a rule, but it is not enforceable.

But if the gun is stolen from your car, you could get fired if you report it. And if you don't, and it is used in a crime or otherwise turns up... well, you may have some 'splainin to do.

 

[soberups]

Sober, it is enforceable depending on your local laws.

Assuming for the sake of argument that I did keep a gun in my car--which I dont---the company would not have any right to search my car without my permission---which I would refuse to give.

They could ask the police to search my car, but without probable cause of criminal activity they would not have the right to do so, either. And since it is perfectly legal for a person in Oregon with a concealed weapon permit---which I posess---to keep a gun in their car in the first place, even if the police believed I had one in there all I would have to do is show them my permit and they would have no legal justification for looking since no crime had been committed.

And as a practical matter, only an idiot would believe that the 25 or 30 guys who commuted to work in hunting rigs with campers, trailers and gun racks on the Friday before opening day didnt bother to bring their rifles along with them. In my 22 years at UPS no one has ever said or done anything...particularly since several of the hunters in our building are management people.

We have also had many drivers have guns shipped to them via UPS and since they arent home to sign during the day they arrange to pick them up at the customer counter Will Call. After they clock off, they are entitled....like any other customer....to receive their package and take it out to their car.

The only way the no gun rule could ever really be enforced is against some idiot who brandished his weapon or threatened someone in the parking lot. The guy with his hunting rifle locked in a case, or a legally carried gun under the seat, doesnt have anything to worry about.

 

[dilligaf]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I can't speak to your local laws, I don't know them.

 

[dannyboy]

What he is saying is that the law is the law. But identifying those that have a gun in the car, say locked in the trunk or glove box, it would be a non issue unless you pulled it out and showed it to someone.

Kinda like having a case of beer or bottle of wine in the car. Unless you pull it out, they would have no reason to suspect you have one.

And without your consent, they would have no right to search it either.

Remember, you are inocent until proven guilty.

As for the starter of this thread, hmmmm. Dating a UPS sup who gets moved because of the relationship, and wants to know about gun rules at UPS...........

d

 

[dilligaf]

What he is saying is that the law is the law. ...................................................d

He who? Sober? He is right. The law is the law. And in AZ I can open carry any gun anywhere in my vehicle (except those that are prohibited to own by federal law). Even within reach of me as the driver. I understand Sobers point about probable cause. Just like UPS can only drug test under probable cause. They can fabricate all the probable cause they want. In Az I can be held accountable, by law, for violating UPS's policy of no guns on property. That is our law. The only thing that UPS can do to me for violating their policy is fire me and since I do live in Az they can press charges against me. Am I willing to risk my job and possible jail time for that. NO. It's a matter of personal choice. Just like it's a matter of personal choice as to which policies are enforced by UPS.

Do you know that in Az it is not against the law to take a gun into a bank. It is against the law to take a gun into a bar.

 

[over9five]

Having a firearm in your car on UPS property is a firable offense.
Stealing packages is a firable offense.


So I guess it's all right to commit a firable offense as long as you don't get caught?

 

[dilligaf]

Having a firearm in your car on UPS property is a firable offense.
Stealing packages is a firable offense.


So I guess it's all right to commit a firable offense as long as you don't get caught?

Where are those damn thank you's when I need them.

 

[soberups]

Having a firearm in your car on UPS property is a firable offense.
Stealing packages is a firable offense.


So I guess it's all right to commit a firable offense as long as you don't get caught?

Please show me the specific contract article that spells out firearms in the personal car as a terminable offense.

Theft and dishonesty are specifically mentioned. They are criminal acts. Having a gun in ones car is not.

The intent of the policy is to forbid employees from brandishing weapons or threatening one another.

If we take your logic to its ultimate conclusion, then I should have been fired for bringing my handgun to work in my car for the purposes of shipping it, and the drivers I mentioned who had guns shipped to them as paying customers of UPS should have been fired the moment they signed for them at the Customer Counter. Not to mention the dozens of guys who are heading out of town after work to go hunting and have rifles in their campers or trucks. Terminations for such acts would be ridiculous and would not be upheld.

 

[dannyboy]

So I guess it's all right to commit a firable offense as long as you don't get caught?

Alright?, nope. Dies it happen all the time? guess so to hear LP talkin.

Big difference though between getting fired for stealing and something else.

d

 

[Catatonic]

Having a firearm in your car on UPS property is a fireable offense.
Stealing packages is a fireable offense.


So I guess it's all right to commit a fireable offense as long as you don't get caught?

Impeccable logic Captain.

 

[dilligaf]

We also prohibit
the unauthorized possession and/or use of weapons by any employee while
at work, on company property, or while on company business.


Sober, this is the best I can give you. I would not want to risk pushing and shoving on this issue. I don't believe that this is a winnable position to be in.​

 

[over9five]

I was just throwing it out there.

I think it's funny how it's alright for you to bring a gun onto property....because it's you.....

But someone stealing a package is not alright....because it's someone else.


Both are against policy. Neither is alright.

 

[some1else]

=
However, without a search warrant or probable cause of criminal activity, they do not have the right to search a locked vehicle.

im not sure but i think one of the handbooks or paperwork i saw mentioned that by parking on ups property you consent to them searching the car at any time (like your lunch bag)

 

[dannyboy]

Well then lets take that a step further.

I have body parts that as long as I keep them hidden, there is no problem. The problem begins when I flaunt them in public in private when inappropriate.

As far as your analysis of my post, I never said it was OK to bring a gun onto UPS property. What I stated was that as long as it was out of sight it should never become an issue.

The issue has nothing to do with what I do or dont do, it is reality.

d

 

[dilligaf]

Danny,


Please be specific as to who you are responding to. It is hard to follow your rebuttals when you are not clear as to who you are rebutting to.

 

[dannyboy]

Our beloved Mod 9.5.

Sorry for the confusion.

d

 

[soberups]

We also prohibit​

the unauthorized possession and/or use of weapons by any employee while
at work, on company property, or while on company business.​

Sober, this is the best I can give you. I would not want to risk pushing and shoving on this issue. I don't believe that this is a winnable position to be in.​

This isnt a contract article, it is from the UPS policy handbook.

Dont get me wrong here, in no way am I advocating bringing weapons to work or breaking any rules.

I'm just pointing out what actually happens in real life at the building I work out of.

 

[dilligaf]

This isnt a contract article, it is from the UPS policy handbook.

Dont get me wrong here, in no way am I advocating bringing weapons to work or breaking any rules.

I'm just pointing out what actually happens in real life at the building I work out of.

I certainly understand that. We all know how UPS likes to selectively enforce policies and procedures. Generally to our detriment. I agree that it is wrong to ignore one and not another. And you are right, it is policy not contract.