help needed with lazy co-worker

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Bottom line, a fair days work at a fair days pay is only subject to ones capacity. Everyone has their own niche, own personality and own pace and it is no one's business to rat someone else out or to tell someone to hurry up. Mind your own business and work as directed. Joke about it with coworkers. Complain to a steward. It's your peroggative if you load 5 trucks, not the slacker next to you.

If someone next to me is slacking then their lack of effort is probably going to affect me and others around them. At that point their lack of work ethic becomes our business. I'm not going to let that mythical protective wall of "brotherhood" stand in the way of trying to fix the problem. A fair days work isn't fair when one guy is working to the best of his ability and loading 5 cars while the guy next to him is half assing and only has to load 3. If the guy loading three is only capable of loading three then thats one thing. But to dismiss laziness and lack of effort off as falling under the realm of a fair day work is just a cop out. Man, I'm glad I don't work inside anymore. Driving is so much better.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

Average? Not sure but I know that if I had stayed I'd be making around $17.50/hr by now. I quit there to work at UPS and go to college so that was about 10 years ago. That's actually a pretty good wage around here considering it's a factory job. A new employee there starts out at around $9.00/hr now. That's what I heard anyway. It was much less 10 years ago. I see your point but $8.50-$9.00/hr for a 4 hour job with full-time benefits and college reimbursement should be enough to attract better employees, which it does, but there are plenty of worthless people here none the less. And it seems that we are stuck with them. I think that is the point of this thread.

I personally don't agree with you that it is the union's fault you are stuck with them. We have terrible pre-loaders at least 3 misloads per car EVERY day, but they can't get anyone to replace them, so there is absolutely NO discipline taking place.

 

[BrownShark]

I love these type of discussions. You keep telling people to mind their own business and you have done everything as a union you can to avoid being held to performance standards. Your union provides labor to businesses. Your teamsters should market the best labor available and pride in workmanship but it does not. If it did you could actually market yourself into more members . And thus union membership continues to decline. There is no pride in workmanship with the teamsters union. You don't tell your people to pick each other up to make teamster labor look good. You tell your people tough , performance is the bosses problem. The stewards should be pulling the slackers off to the side and telling them to stop making the teamsters look so bad. You don't see it. You see the stewards file harrassment grievances for the slug instead.

Ok Tie,

As usual, your way off base and im about to score. While your thoughts were echoed by sx2700, its no surprise, water seeks its own levels.

But let me take issue with your points.

You keep telling people to mind their own business and you have done everything as a union you can to avoid being held to performance standards.

Lets make it absolutely clear, THERE ARE NO PERFORMANCE STANDARDS that UPS employees have to meet in our contract. We get an assignment, we "each" do the assignment to the best of our abilities and the assessment of a fair days work is calculated individually. There is NO AGREEMENT between the Union and the Company for employees to reach any kind of benchmarks or standards in the daily performance of their duties. Therefore, your point of avoiding being held to standards is refuted.

Your union provides labor to businesses.

Our union provides no such thing. The Teamsters dont bring people into the HR office to apply for jobs. This is the companies undoing.

The new version of hiring at UPS has been reduced to "cattle calls" and many people show up for walk thru's. No longer are the college kids coming, just the local "riff raft" that the company employs cause' they can get away with paying $8.50 and hour for 5 more years.

They become a part of the labor force "after" UPS hires them and introduces them to the Teamsters, not the other way around. Once a Union member, they are afforded protections from a National Contract.

They may not be good workers and in fact, many of them are lazy, late or thieves, but the COMPANY chose to hire them and they have rights under a contract.

So, if you dont like a certain employee cause' he's lazy or whatever, you should walk into your HR office and scold your HR manager. They are responsible for bringing him on property.

Your teamsters should market the best labor available and pride in workmanship but it does not.

We only market what you sell us TIE. If we had a say in hiring, the standards would be way higher.

There is no pride in workmanship with the teamsters union. You don't tell your people to pick each other up to make teamster labor look good.

This is where your wrong, if the Teamster UPS'ers had no pride in work, there would be NO CIRCLE OF HONOR, NO 35 year employees, NO safe work days, NO PRODUCTIVITY.

The UPS Teamsters have made this company what it is, not donut dunkers like yourself. The UPS reputation has been formed on the backs of the Teamster members.

While you are busy typing posts and dunking your latest crumb donut during business hours on a company computer, a TEAMSTER UPS'er is out shaking hands and solving customer concerns.

Your management has provided nothing to UPS's reputation.

The stewards should be pulling the slackers off to the side and telling them to stop making the teamsters look so bad. You don't see it. You see the stewards file harrassment grievances for the slug instead.

This isnt the role of the Steward. The steward is a witness, an intermediary between the company and the employee, not a supervisor.

The company has a responsibility to manage the company, not the employees, not the stewards and not the UNION.

If poor performance of employees is the trending factor in our hubs, then a closer look at the hiring process is in order.

If you try and treat the symptom instead of the problem, then the issue will never be resolved.

If anyone is making the Teamsters look bad, its the ineffectual management of the company. In this case, based "only" on the information provided, a weak management person has failed in his/her duties.

Place blame where it belongs TIE, if the company understood that any management person was afraid to do his/her job because of the race of any employee, then that management person should be removed.

This isnt a job of "feelings", its a job of effort and energy.

No one's feelings are a protected entity.

OWNED.

Peace

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I personally don't agree with you that it is the union's fault you are stuck with them. We have terrible pre-loaders at least 3 misloads per car EVERY day, but they can't get anyone to replace them, so there is absolutely NO discipline taking place.

A loader being terrible is not the same thing as a loader not trying. Although the end result could be the same. If the union would lift the blanket of protection from the slackers then they could be replaced if they refuse to step up. So yes it's partly the union's fault. Replacing terrible loaders should be done within their 30 day qualification period otherwise we are stuck with them. That is management's fault. If they start preloading long after their first 30 days are done and they suck the only thing left to do is help them. Retrain them. At least they are trying. Slackers aren't trying.

 

[BrownShark]

If someone next to me is slacking then their lack of effort is probably going to affect me and others around them. At that point their lack of work ethic becomes our business. I'm not going to let that mythical protective wall of "brotherhood" stand in the way of trying to fix the problem. A fair days work isn't fair when one guy is working to the best of his ability and loading 5 cars while the guy next to him is half assing and only has to load 3. If the guy loading three is only capable of loading three then thats one thing. But to dismiss laziness and lack of effort off as falling under the realm of a fair day work is just a cop out. Man, I'm glad I don't work inside anymore. Driving is so much better.

Big Misdirected Arrow,

This attitude might work in cowpoke USA, but try this methodology in our Grande Vista Hub and you will get "shanked" in the parking lot on the way to your raised 4x4 friend-350. The kids there are the toughest in East LA.

You rat one of them out, and they would kill you right after shift, you think they are afraid of jail? Where do you think they came from?

Maybe in cowpoke, cowards run rampant thru the preload snitching on each other, but in the end, we are all payed HOURLY in a declining economy and the more you work the more you get paid.

Complaining about extra work should be the least of your concerns.

With the current skyrocketing gas prices eating 6% extra of your income this year alone, any additional work or hours should be a welcomed thought.

Try rational thought for a change arrow.

Peace

 

[BrownShark]

A loader being terrible is not the same thing as a loader not trying. Although the end result could be the same. If the union would lift the blanket of protection from the slackers then they could be replaced if they refuse to step up. So yes it's partly the union's fault. Replacing terrible loaders should be done within their 30 day qualification period otherwise we are stuck with them. That is management's fault. If they start preloading long after their first 30 days are done and they suck the only thing left to do is help them. Retrain them. At least they are trying. Slackers aren't trying.

Arrow,

man are you just not getting it????

All this diatribe on this thread and the point remains the same, WE HAVE A CONTRACT and this contract protects ALL EMPLOYEES not just the good ones.

Your "blanket of protection" is called the CONTRACT.

Your feelings are called "USELESS".

Understand the difference??

Peace

 

[sx2700]

Arrow,

man are you just not getting it????

All this diatribe on this thread and the point remains the same, WE HAVE A CONTRACT and this contract protects ALL EMPLOYEES not just the good ones.

Your "blanket of protection" is called the CONTRACT.

Your feelings are called "USELESS".

Understand the difference??

Peace

Apparently you're the only one that gets it. By your logic an employee can punch in and then go sit in a chair and watch other people work and the union will fight for this guy to the bitter end. And just because you keep posting the same thing time after time doesn't mean it's right. Besides I don't think anybody is disputing the contract, they are simply saying that worthless employees should be shown the door. It seems to me that this issue really touched a nerve for you, why is that? Are you one of those people that is constantly looking for the angle that will get you out of work? Do you spend more energy trying to get out of doing the job than if you would have if you'd just gone and done it? You also need to learn a little respect, you're gonna call the guy in "cowpoke" a coward because he expects the same effort out of his coworkers, yet you are afraid to rat out the lazy employee because you'll be knifed in the parking lot? Whatever dude.... Good luck in whatever it is you do.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big Misdirected Arrow,

This attitude might work in cowpoke USA, but try this methodology in our Grande Vista Hub and you will get "shanked" in the parking lot on the way to your raised 4x4 friend-350. The kids there are the toughest in East LA.

Wow. Amazing. WHO CARES! And "shanking" someone isn't "tough." Its cowardly. Around here we fight like men. Not thugs.

You rat one of them out, and they would kill you right after shift, you think they are afraid of jail? Where do you think they came from?

LOL! I seriously doubt that. And I don't care where they come from. Is this the scum you want to work with? Probably.

Maybe in cowpoke, cowards run rampant thru the preload snitching on each other, but in the end, we are all payed HOURLY in a declining economy and the more you work the more you get paid.

No. Here cowards "shank" people and use the contract as a blanket. The rest of us work to the best of our ability and make life harder for the scum that you seem to want to take up for. Why should the majority suffer because of the few? We don't put up with that here.

Complaining about extra work should be the least of your concerns.

With the current skyrocketing gas prices eating 6% extra of your income this year alone, any additional work or hours should be a welcomed thought.

Try rational thought for a change arrow.

Peace

Rational thought? LOL! Man, I though you were out in left field in politics. This psycho babble has more than reaffirmed that thought. Rational thought? This coming from a guy that just defended thugs and cowards that "shank" people as employees worthy of representation. LOL!

Arrow,

man are you just not getting it????

All this diatribe on this thread and the point remains the same, WE HAVE A CONTRACT and this contract protects ALL EMPLOYEES not just the good ones.

Your "blanket of protection" is called the CONTRACT.

Your feelings are called "USELESS".

Understand the difference??

Peace

It would appear that YOU are the one that doesn't get it. Yes, the contract protects all employees and the points being made here is that it shouldn't. Get it? Understand? It shouldn't protect people who are PURPOSELY lazy. Get it? Understand? A fair days work right? The key word is FAIR. Letting people get away with being lazy isn't "fair." If you want to follow the contract to the letter than keep that in mind.

 

[sx2700]

I've been reading through some of brownsharks post and I guess the conclusion is that arguing with him is like beating your head against the wall. This guy has decided to be the Browncafe bully. I don't have time to read all his threads, but I never saw one positive post from this guy. Every post is designed to belittle someone or push his views and ideas down their throat. Most people come here to ask questions, or to give their "OPINION", and to just have fun within the community. People like Brownshark just need to go away, there is plenty of negative around without guys like this adding to it. Yes, I've ranted and vented on this board, but not with the intention of p*ssing people off, it is just to offer up my opinion and then other users can take it or leave it. In the end it is all about coming here and picking up information and having a good time.

 

[moreluck]

sx2700.......like nailing jello to a wall !!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I've been reading through some of brownsharks post and I guess the conclusion is that arguing with him is like beating your head against the wall. This guy has decided to be the Browncafe bully. I don't have time to read all his threads, but I never saw one positive post from this guy. Every post is designed to belittle someone or push his views and ideas down their throat. Most people come here to ask questions, or to give their "OPINION", and to just have fun within the community. People like Brownshark just need to go away, there is plenty of negative around without guys like this adding to it. Yes, I've ranted and vented on this board, but not with the intention of p*ssing people off, it is just to offer up my opinion and then other users can take it or leave it. In the end it is all about coming here and picking up information and having a good time.

Ditto. I've been coming to this board off and on (more often over the past 3 years) since it was created and have seen people like him come and go. Luckily for us this type of person eventually goes away for good. Unfortunately for us they are soon replaced by another. It moves in cycles. Some people are just mean spirited and too hard headed for these boards. Makes me wonder how their co-workers or family can put up with them. Or are they just bullies and brave here and totally different in the real world? It is strange to say the least.

 

[scratch]

I would appreciate if a certain poster would read the Terms of Service and try to start respecting other members of this community. I can understand people disagreeing with one another, but the constant insults need to come to an end. If you will not fix the problem on your end, then I can fix it on my end.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

WHo's to say the person in question is really "slacking off" intentionally, or is just a slow worker, slow mover, not good at their job but does try? I haven't see any evidence either way. Maybe UPS just hired the wrong guy/gal and now they're stuck.

Most seem to be assuming that the person IS intentionally slacking off and holding up the system on purpose.

My post was just under the assumption that everyone is different, works differnet speeds, etc and the person in question may or may not be sabotaging the system.

about MYOB and work as directed - there's too many whiney people out there that will rat EVERYONE and anyone to management that don't work up to THEIR standard. This frustrates me as much as the guy slacking letting work build up and waiting to be bailed out all the time. Chances are this same rat will rat EVERYONE at some point when they see fit and will never believe that anyone compares to their own work abilities. Yes there are always as many of these types as the mopers....

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

WHo's to say the person in question is really "slacking off" intentionally, or is just a slow worker, slow mover, not good at their job but does try? I haven't see any evidence either way. Maybe UPS just hired the wrong guy/gal and now they're stuck.

Most seem to be assuming that the person IS intentionally slacking off and holding up the system on purpose.

My post was just under the assumption that everyone is different, works differnet speeds, etc and the person in question may or may not be sabotaging the system.

about MYOB and work as directed - there's too many whiney people out there that will rat EVERYONE and anyone to management that don't work up to THEIR standard. This frustrates me as much as the guy slacking letting work build up and waiting to be bailed out all the time. Chances are this same rat will rat EVERYONE at some point when they see fit and will never believe that anyone compares to their own work abilities. Yes there are always as many of these types as the mopers....

It's usually pretty easy to determine who is slacking and who isn't. It's not a complicated science. I realize everyone has different capabilities and different traits than the people they work with but that doesn't negate the fact that we have a job to do and that we are expected (according the the Teamster Constitution) to perform all duties to the best of our ability and skill. It all boils down to the lack of work ethic and the fact that there is no incentives, such as write ups, to perform their duties. We are, sadly, stuck with them. I don't have a problem with someone if they are trying and just can't swing it. If someone can't cut the mustard early on they should be let go. That is what the 30 day qualification period is for. To get rid of someone that will be a problem. Whether it be because of lack of effort or simply because they don't have the tools to do the job. Those do good work but later start to slowly wither away because of illness, fatigue, etc., deserve the security they get. Those that just choose to quit while on the job deserve nothing.

 

[hseofpayne]

Hopefully this won't come off to whinny, but I have a co-worker that gets away with murder and a sup that is scared to act for racial reasons. I've spoke with the sup with little or no action taking place and are union rep appears to be on his side although i haven't had the oppertunity to speak with her.

Today I nearly lost it as I was informed I got to load one of his trucks. I work the front of the line splitting the belt and already load 4 trucks of my own. Now stuck the 5th truck I am forced to watch him dance and sing while I contemplate murder. What can I do to help him have a speedy departure from the company before I have my ticket?

I had the same situation when I was a preloader. I split the belt and loaded 3 cars and the guy behind me stayed blown out with 4 cars. My preload sup game me his 1st car so he would stack a couple boxes up at his new 1st car and sit and watch me struggle. The last straw came when he started throwing the boxes I missed at the back of my legs. I complained to my sup, told him if he didn't do something, I would. He told me to just make sure he didn't see it. Well, he hit me again, so I went down the belt, threw him in the back of a car and pulled the door shut. I beat him like a drum, had him in a headlock, and he bit me in the stomach! I still have his teeth prints as a scar! The problem came when his friend down the belt came up and opened the cars back door. I was caught and was soon sitting in the office being fired. The union fought to get his job back but my center manager wouldn't take him back if I remained fired. It took about 2 months, but he was fired for good. That was over 20 years ago and I have never taken the "law" into my own hands again. If you have a good work ethic , it is hard to intentionally slow down. Just do the best you can, this too shall pass.

 

[tieguy]

Ok Tie,

As usual, your way off base and im about to score. While your thoughts were echoed by sx2700, its no surprise, water seeks its own levels.
But let me take issue with your points.

Golly I think BS just said he's fixin to give me a whoopin. Drum roll please. Everyone watch BS as he shows me up here because its more important to try to show me up then to simply disagree with me.


Lets make it absolutely clear, THERE ARE NO PERFORMANCE STANDARDS that UPS employees have to meet in our contract. We get an assignment, we "each" do the assignment to the best of our abilities and the assessment of a fair days work is calculated individually. There is NO AGREEMENT between the Union and the Company for employees to reach any kind of benchmarks or standards in the daily performance of their duties. Therefore, your point of avoiding being held to standards is refuted.

Are you serious or are you really that dense? The fact there are no performance standards written into the contract other then the very vague fair days work for fair days pay proves my point that the union avoids those standards at all costs.



Our union provides no such thing. The Teamsters dont bring people into the HR office to apply for jobs. This is the companies undoing.

The new version of hiring at UPS has been reduced to "cattle calls" and many people show up for walk thru's. No longer are the college kids coming, just the local "riff raft" that the company employs cause' they can get away with paying $8.50 and hour for 5 more years.

They become a part of the labor force "after" UPS hires them and introduces them to the Teamsters, not the other way around. Once a Union member, they are afforded protections from a National Contract.

They may not be good workers and in fact, many of them are lazy, late or thieves, but the COMPANY chose to hire them and they have rights under a contract.

So, if you dont like a certain employee cause' he's lazy or whatever, you should walk into your HR office and scold your HR manager. They are responsible for bringing him on property.

Ok you claim to be disagreeing with me but you keep agreeing with me. Did I get you confused?



We only market what you sell us TIE. If we had a say in hiring, the standards would be way higher.

Really ? What standards do you currently have to prove this point? The only hiring you have done is to hire teamster presidents. How many of them have been indicted for something? Everyone but the current one. Is this your version of higher standards?


This is where your wrong, if the Teamster UPS'ers had no pride in work, there would be NO CIRCLE OF HONOR, NO 35 year employees, NO safe work days, NO PRODUCTIVITY.

All company produced standards. Again you prove my point while promising to disagree.

The UPS Teamsters have made this company what it is, not donut dunkers like yourself. The UPS reputation has been formed on the backs of the Teamster members.

While you are busy typing posts and dunking your latest crumb donut during business hours on a company computer, a TEAMSTER UPS'er is out shaking hands and solving customer concerns.

Your management has provided nothing to UPS's reputation.

Guess you don't read all the awards we get for being the best managed company in the business. BS you're really stinking it up after promising so much? I think I'll cut if off here before I make you look any worse.

 

[tieguy]

Big Misdirected Arrow,

This attitude might work in cowpoke USA, but try this methodology in our Grande Vista Hub and you will get "shanked" in the parking lot on the way to your raised 4x4 friend-350. The kids there are the toughest in East LA.

You rat one of them out, and they would kill you right after shift, you think they are afraid of jail? Where do you think they came from?

Maybe in cowpoke, cowards run rampant thru the preload snitching on each other, but in the end, we are all payed HOURLY in a declining economy and the more you work the more you get paid.

Complaining about extra work should be the least of your concerns.

With the current skyrocketing gas prices eating 6% extra of your income this year alone, any additional work or hours should be a welcomed thought.

Try rational thought for a change arrow.

Peace

Wow that BS is such a tough dude. Last time I checked I think we hire from more inner city areas then just east LA? Guess those guys are special in east la.

BS could you provide us with some links that show us how many shankings ups had in east La last year? I'm sure the union documented those cases and filed a protest on unsafe working conditions in east LA? Or did the stewards not do their job with all those shankings going on?

 

[tieguy]

For those that have not read my points before a little redundancy. I don't honestly expect the union to manage the business for us.

I keep refering to union pride in workmanship which is what I learned from my father in law. my father in law was a union electrician. His union preached , ate and slept pride in workmanship. They held theirselves to a higher standard at all time. They would pull a slacker or screw up to the side and tell him to either get his head out of his rear or they would throw him off the job.
If any of you ever ride through the fort mchenry tunnel in baltimore there is a good chance the lights you see were installed by him.

Our people bring that pride on an individual basis. But they have never gotten that direction from the teamsters union.

 

[randallj]

Just to clear the air on my situation, the guy was a good loader to start with until the past peak season was in and he realized that if he was stacked out the super would catch him up. He just continues to do less and less as each day passes. This effects everyone on my sort because we are a small center with only 6 loaders. We only have about 4000 pieces a day and they are pretty evenly distributed. We have watched his productivity drop over the past six months and are forced to pick up the slack. Race was only brought up when he was confronted about his lack of effort loading. Rave was only brought up by him. Work loaded got shifted to different locations.

I came here to ask for help, not to be blasted or called a racist. I happen to live in a interracial family BrownShark so don't point fingers under false assumptions.

 

[hseofpayne]

As I said before, this is a company issue, not an employee vs employee issue. The contract protects the employees and not the employees feelings.

While one employee may not like the pace of work of another, "its none of their business."

As I explained, the by-laws of the international and local unions, prohibit any employee from taking action against another union member that results in discipline.

Action then would, could and should be taken against ANY union member that goes out of his way to communicate to the company any information detrimental to another employee.

As for hypocrisy, there is none and I dont know what your referring to, but then again, I dont think you know either.

An employees responsibility is to manage themselves and not the other employees. "snitching" is not part of anyones job description.

If the employee in question is in fact not doing his job to the satisfaction of the company, then its the companies job to make that determination.

Reading between the lines here, I see a conflict of a racial nature.

Using "only" the "syntax" of the original posters words, he is white and the employee he is snitching on is black.

I believe this to be the bigger issue at hand.

I find this more troubling.

In this day and age, race should play no part in the workplace, we are all union brothers and sisters. If the original poster feels that it is unfair to do more work, then the choice is his.

In package, I am able to run my route (a heavy p12) everyday and get done on time, yet, the utility drivers who cover while I am out or conducting union business do my route in 11.5 hours.

Should I run and scream to the managers about performance?

Its none of my business, thats a supervisors job to determine if the ultility drivers are doing a "fair days work", not mine.

You, or any other union member should not encourage this young man to do anything but his job. Focus on himself, if he wants to load 4,5 or 6 cars cause he can, then thats his business.

But if theres another employee loading 2, then its not his position to worry about it, whether he's singing and dancing or not.

If its black people he is concerned with, well get over it, its 2008 people.

Peace

I can picture you wearing a "NO SNITCHING" T-Shirt under your browns. Its interesting that you used "syntax" to determine race. I just went by who was working and who wasn't. Protecting sorry SOB's is not in any contract I ever read, and if this guy is paying dues, then maybe the union should be helping him. You are the typical that thinks the snitcher is worse than the criminal. Minding your own business is not an option when you are getting screwed. Its your kind of entitlement thinking that creates racism where there wouldn't normally be any. I bet if you feel slighted you have thrown out the jokers so you can have 54 race cards! Comparing utility drivers who rarely run your rte to the sorry #$ that loads behind this guy every day is ignorant. "NO SNITCHING", what a motto to live by.