High Speed Rail

[moreluck]

Amtrak is a government owned corporation.. That explains why it's in the hole.....like USPS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak

If you build a high speed train and no one rides it, the rest of the United States will have to subsidize it.....even though we don't want it.

Seems idiotic to me!

 

[The Other Side]

Amtrak is a government owned corporation.. That explains why it's in the hole.....like USPS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak

If you build a high speed train and no one rides it, the rest of the United States will have to subsidize it.....even though we don't want it.

Seems idiotic to me!

Its idiotic because you are comparing apples to oranges. Amtrak is a localized commuter service with many stops along the way. People who need to be someplace in a hurry dont want to sit in a commuter that stops every 10 minutes or so.

You have to think outside the box.

HIGH SPEED trains more, go up to 200mph, at that speed, it aint stopping every few minutes. That defeats the purpose.

Amtrak is NOT RUN by the goverment. Its OWNED by the goverment but has a board of directors that run it like a private business. USPS is a private company overseen by the federal goverment but the goverment makes no decisions on operations. The USPS does NOT TAKE tax payer money.

Each has an appointed board of directors and each is run like a private business.

You keep saying "WE" dont want it, yet you cant explain how "YOU" speak for the rest of the state.

Peace.

 

[moreluck]

There's 24 stations planned, so they're stopping somewhere along the way.

Oh, and I am not speaking for CA. When I say 'we' don't want it, I mean hubby & I and folks we hang with.

It's a loser's idea and a losing proposition for the state and it will not support itself. Tell Biden he's bonkers!!

 

[moreluck]

The USPS is subsidized because that has been UPS's complaint about it for decades!!

"The USPS is a wholly owned subsidiary of the United States government subsidized by the US taxpayers."

from 1989....
"At present, with its $1.5 billion in annual taxpayer subsidies and its 10 billion line of credit with the U.S. Treasury, the USPS receives consider able financial support from the government. However, through a series of management improvements recommended by the General Accounting Office GAO), the Presidents Commission on Privatization, and the Postal Rate 1 Commission, the USPS easily could elimina te the need for these subsidies generate surpluses, and shift its borrowing to the private sector."

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/1989/06/How-to-Move-the-Postal-Service-Truly-Off-Budget




"The postal service is heavily subsidized. It does not pay property taxes on its post office buildings and lands. It is exempt from State sales taxes. Private firms must pay such taxes, which get passed on to consumers. And yet with these subsidies, the USPS is still not able to compete with private enterprise, and government legally prohibits the private companies from doing business. " https://web.archive.org/web/20130730102105/http://www.progress.org/archive/fold190.htm


"The government says the P.O. is not subsidized by tax revenue. Of course, it lies."

 

[The Other Side]

The USPS is subsidized because that has been UPS's complaint about it for decades!!

"The USPS is a wholly owned subsidiary of the United States government subsidized by the US taxpayers."

from 1989....
"At present, with its $1.5 billion in annual taxpayer subsidies and its 10 billion line of credit with the U.S. Treasury, the USPS receives consider able financial support from the government. However, through a series of management improvements recommended by the General Accounting Office GAO), the Presidents Commission on Privatization, and the Postal Rate 1 Commission, the USPS easily could elimina te the need for these subsidies generate surpluses, and shift its borrowing to the private sector."

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/1989/06/How-to-Move-the-Postal-Service-Truly-Off-Budget




"The postal service is heavily subsidized. It does not pay property taxes on its post office buildings and lands. It is exempt from State sales taxes. Private firms must pay such taxes, which get passed on to consumers. And yet with these subsidies, the USPS is still not able to compete with private enterprise, and government legally prohibits the private companies from doing business. " https://web.archive.org/web/20130730102105/http://www.progress.org/archive/fold190.htm



"The government says the P.O. is not subsidized by tax revenue. Of course, it lies."

A Day in the Life...By the Numbers
Each day the Postal Service processes, delivers and picks up millions of letters and packages. No single operation in the world comes close to this level of connectivity to so many households and businesses. Here's a day in the life of your United States Postal Service. (Figures are averages.)
221.3 million — revenue received, in dollars
563 million — number of mailpieces processed and delivered
258.1 million — pieces of First-Class Mail processed and delivered
272.4 million — pieces of Advertising Mail processed and delivered
136 million — dollars paid to postal employees in salaries and benefits
185,700 — number of packages picked up through Carrier Pickup
4.1 million — number of miles driven by letter carriers and truck drivers
1.4 million — number of gallons of fuel used
8,800 — number of letter carriers who deliver mail entirely on foot — The USPS Fleet of Feet
135,974 — number of address changes processed
2,428 — number of addresses added to our delivery network
1.3 million — number of people who visit usps.com
608,219 — dollars spent on usps.com
1.4 million — dollars spent on postage for Click-N-Ship labels
22,112 — number of passport applications accepted
407,267 — number of money orders issued
252,352 — number of transactions processed on 2,500 APCs
1.9 million — dollars spent at APCs
7 million — customers served at more than 36,000 retail locations
105 million — number of postage stamps canceled on automation equipment
0 — tax dollars received for operating the Postal Service


A self-supporting government enterprise, the U.S. Postal Service is the only delivery service that reaches every address in the nation, 150 million residences, businesses and Post Office Boxes. The Postal Service receives no tax dollars for operating expenses, and relies on the sale of postage, products and services to fund its operations. With 32,000 retail locations and the most frequently visited website in the federal government, usps.com, the Postal Service has annual revenue of more than $67 billion and delivers nearly 40 percent of the world's mail. If it were a private sector company, the U.S. Postal Service would rank 29th in the 2010 Fortune 500. Black Enterprise and Hispanic Business magazines ranked the Postal Service as a leader in workforce diversity. The Postal Service has been named the Most Trusted Government Agency six consecutive years and the sixth Most Trusted Business in the nation by the Ponemon Institute

From the US Postal service
http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/postalfacts.htm

Peace.

 

[brett636]

[h=2]A Day in the Life...By the Numbers[/h]Each day the Postal Service processes, delivers and picks up millions of letters and packages. No single operation in the world comes close to this level of connectivity to so many households and businesses. Here's a day in the life of your United States Postal Service. (Figures are averages.)
221.3 million — revenue received, in dollars
563 million — number of mailpieces processed and delivered
258.1 million — pieces of First-Class Mail processed and delivered
272.4 million — pieces of Advertising Mail processed and delivered
136 million — dollars paid to postal employees in salaries and benefits
185,700 — number of packages picked up through Carrier Pickup
4.1 million — number of miles driven by letter carriers and truck drivers
1.4 million — number of gallons of fuel used
8,800 — number of letter carriers who deliver mail entirely on foot — The USPS Fleet of Feet
135,974 — number of address changes processed
2,428 — number of addresses added to our delivery network
1.3 million — number of people who visit usps.com
608,219 — dollars spent on usps.com
1.4 million — dollars spent on postage for Click-N-Ship labels
22,112 — number of passport applications accepted
407,267 — number of money orders issued
252,352 — number of transactions processed on 2,500 APCs
1.9 million — dollars spent at APCs
7 million — customers served at more than 36,000 retail locations
105 million — number of postage stamps canceled on automation equipment
0 — tax dollars received for operating the Postal Service


A self-supporting government enterprise, the U.S. Postal Service is the only delivery service that reaches every address in the nation, 150 million residences, businesses and Post Office Boxes. The Postal Service receives no tax dollars for operating expenses, and relies on the sale of postage, products and services to fund its operations. With 32,000 retail locations and the most frequently visited website in the federal government, usps.com, the Postal Service has annual revenue of more than $67 billion and delivers nearly 40 percent of the world's mail. If it were a private sector company, the U.S. Postal Service would rank 29th in the 2010 Fortune 500. Black Enterprise and Hispanic Business magazines ranked the Postal Service as a leader in workforce diversity. The Postal Service has been named the Most Trusted Government Agency six consecutive years and the sixth Most Trusted Business in the nation by the Ponemon Institute

From the US Postal service
http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/postalfacts.htm

Peace.

The post office has also been running consistently in the red and will need a government bailout soon if something doesn't change. This is why the USPS has stopped contributing to it's employee's pension funds is due to its ineptness to compete despite its many market advantages. Why don't you point to these in your little post? Oh, thats right, because its the truth!

 

[brett636]

First of all, I would like to ask MORELUCK how she is able to speak for ALL CALIFORNIANS? Shes retired, living in a small ocean community made up of mostly old people. Old people are not likely to accept change, and I imagine that switching from propeller driven planes to jets was a hard jump for More, but todays world is changing once again.

In california, our entire labor community is in the dumps. Plumbing, Electrical, Construction, Cementing, Asphalting, Painting and the like are completely out of work. These businesses are failing faster than in any time in history. There is no work for these industries.

A high speed rail system will bring all these businesses back to life, and in doing so, every peripheral business connected to them will once again thrive.

Second, to TRIP, California is a transient state. People are moving about every single day. Our airports are overcrowded and over flowing. The business connection between san francisco and los angeles is huge. There are literally flights leaving every hour on the hour to san francisco from every airport in so california.

Because the northern part of california is business connected to southern california, a high speed rail system will simplify the process of moving up and back relieving the airport system, this relief will result in less fuel usage by the aircraft industry. In addition, hundreds of thousands of travelers make the drive to san francisco weekly from los angeles all year round, and the effective cost savings in taking the train and then renting a car in frisco makes more sense.

Moreluck lives in the southern part of our state, and she is quite removed from the business world of Los Angeles. I on the other hand, am directly involved in the business community in Los Angeles. Californians indeed, are looking forward to this new rail and the job creation that it will spawn.

The travel on our freeway system leaving los angeles to san francisco is bumper to bumper for miles on end. It doesnt free up on a weekend until you hit the peak summit at the Grapevine some 100 miles from Los Angeles.

At that point, you can get to highway speeds until you reach middle california where it bogs down again.

Nobody likes this drive.

With airlines raising fees or charging extra for bags, the cost to fly has reached a level that is too expensive for many people. A high speed rail traveling to frisco in three hours for half the money makes better sense for both businessman and tourists.

Peace.

Thankfully most business owners are much more intelligent than you and know better than to build a long-term business plan around a temporary project like this. As soon as the track is built and the trains are running the jobs that were created during the construction process will be gone and the state will be yet on the hook for another liberal pipe dream that just didn't pan out as planned. There is simply nothing about California's economic situation that indicates it will be any better in the future. The budget gaps still exist, the taxes are too high, and the overall personal freedoms are the lowest in the nation. Given the way the California tax code is written you would think being successful is a sin. No business person in their right mind who has a choice is going to be creating very many jobs there. If it weren't for the weather factor L.A. would already be looking like Detroit.

 

[moreluck]

Gee, TOS, your whole list of crap doesn't include one entry saying PROFIT !!!! How strange ?

 

[Babagounj]

Instead of wasting funds to build useless projects, how about using those same funds to improve existing systems.
I see this as a much better long term jobs creation idea.
With all the railroads, highways, power transmission ,water and sewer system of today that are crumbling , the ability to fix and improve upon them would lead to a better stable economy.

 

[moreluck]

This was in today's Orange County Register on the opinion page.............folly factor rises............

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/billion-306415-train-project.html

 

[raceanoncr]

California people will ride this train like they already do the existing ones.......they don't! They are addicted to their own cars. This train will be the biggest waste of $$$ and won't solve any freeway crowding if everyone continues to drive. Just like the impact of 'green' cars. Sure, there are some, but people want their gas ungines.

I'm just gonna jump into this fray for my own little comment and opinion.

I gotta go with More on this one. CA is the birthplace of motoring. That is, hotrodding, drag racing, car shows, cruisin, going to the beach in your surfmobile, etc. CAns ain't gonna go for it. Period!

Even in the Midwest, I'm addicted to my car(s). I don't wanna wait at a depot to go ANYWHERE, or walk blocks when I get dumped out, or rent a car at my destination. I want MY car! Yes, even if I'm stuck in gridlock.

OK, I'm a little bit anal about cars. I want em to look nice, to sound nice (that means, annoy the hell outta the neighbors) and to blow the tires off the rear at will. I want that feeling whereever I go, in my OWN car.

That's it! Carry on.

Race

 

[The Other Side]

I'm just gonna jump into this fray for my own little comment and opinion.

I gotta go with More on this one. CA is the birthplace of motoring. That is, hotrodding, drag racing, car shows, cruisin, going to the beach in your surfmobile, etc. CAns ain't gonna go for it. Period!

Even in the Midwest, I'm addicted to my car(s). I don't wanna wait at a depot to go ANYWHERE, or walk blocks when I get dumped out, or rent a car at my destination. I want MY car! Yes, even if I'm stuck in gridlock.

OK, I'm a little bit anal about cars. I want em to look nice, to sound nice (that means, annoy the hell outta the neighbors) and to blow the tires off the rear at will. I want that feeling whereever I go, in my OWN car.

That's it! Carry on.

Race

This is why fuel at the pumps continues to stay around 4 bucks a gallon. Mindset.

We are a spoiled nation. We want the biggest, the baddest everything in life. We live in excess. We are a greedy nation. Other countries are cutting back on resource useage but americans want to burn it faster than it can be taken out of the ground.

The issue of a high speed rail isnt directed at some guy trying to relive the "dukes of hazzard" days. Its directed at the business traveler and the vacationer willing to change thier mindsets on travel using less energy.

This country has to join the world in changing our mindsets.

Lowering our consumption of crude oil will bring our country back to life. Increasing the use of crude oil will bring our country down.

Its a simple math equation.

Peace.

 

[moreluck]

We love our cars !!

 

[raceanoncr]

This is why fuel at the pumps continues to stay around 4 bucks a gallon. Mindset.

We are a spoiled nation. We want the biggest, the baddest everything in life. We live in excess. We are a greedy nation. Other countries are cutting back on resource useage but americans want to burn it faster than it can be taken out of the ground.

The issue of a high speed rail isnt directed at some guy trying to relive the "dukes of hazzard" days. Its directed at the business traveler and the vacationer willing to change thier mindsets on travel using less energy.

This country has to join the world in changing our mindsets.

Lowering our consumption of crude oil will bring our country back to life. Increasing the use of crude oil will bring our country down.

Its a simple math equation.

Peace.

You know what? I totally agree! We ARE a spoiled nation. We DO want the biggest, baddest of all.

We want the most expensive toilet seat for our nation's leaders! We want our legislators to go on vacation whenever there is pending bills to discuss. We want our legislators to NEVER have to pay Social Security and to be able to retire at the same salary they currently make. We want our First Lady to go to Africa to spread goodwill at our expense. We want our leaders to have the time to sext to anyone we want. We want this country to blow a rocket to the moon and bring back...uh, rocks. I want to, almost, be forced (locally) to recycle into 3 different containers a week only to watch as one big bin truck comes and all 3 containers get dumped into it.

I want my, almost gone house because of the flooding in the Midwest, to be viewed by Pres Obama and have him write me a check. Instead, he's on the other side of the state, campaigning! I'm spoiled! I want what I paid for!

I want the Social Security Administration to catch lawbreakers. Locally, boy, DID they! It only took em 20 years! The daughter was caught after that time frame for accepting SS payments for her mother, WHO'D BEEN DEAD 20 YEARS!!!! You know HOW they caught it? Mom was turning 104 so they thought they might do a routine check!


Yeah, you're right! This is the mindset of America. It's MY mindset. And you know what? I ain't gonna change UNTIL, notice, UNTIL, this gooberment takes the lead. And not on paper, in deeds, in action, in leadership. It ain't gonna happen.

Spoiled? Yes, I'd LIKE to be. At 64, retired, I thought I had everything I worked for. I didn't lack anything. That is, until now. The US ARMY Corps of Engineers, in their boundless wisdom, is now flooding the whole Missouri River Valley. Another town went under last night. I won't go into details but the general consensus is that they dropped the ball this spring in releasing water. They gonna help me rebuild my house? Oh, they'll probably HELP me qualify for a low interest rebuilding loan. Yeah, thanks. When the country sends BILLIONS to EACH AND EVERY country that hates America and wants all Americans dead. Take the lead America. HERE!!!!!!

This country's gonna go down because of oil consumption? Hardly. It's gonna go down because of lack of leadership, ON ALL LEVELS, Dems, Reps, Ind, TP, all.


Yeah, ridership on a train is gonna change the world. You ever been on a train? It's like boarding, you wanna call "America's Most Wanted" and say, "Un, I think I've found em all".


Carry on


Race

 

[The Other Side]

You know what? I totally agree! We ARE a spoiled nation. We DO want the biggest, baddest of all.

We want the most expensive toilet seat for our nation's leaders! We want our legislators to go on vacation whenever there is pending bills to discuss. We want our legislators to NEVER have to pay Social Security and to be able to retire at the same salary they currently make. We want our First Lady to go to Africa to spread goodwill at our expense. We want our leaders to have the time to sext to anyone we want. We want this country to blow a rocket to the moon and bring back...uh, rocks. I want to, almost, be forced (locally) to recycle into 3 different containers a week only to watch as one big bin truck comes and all 3 containers get dumped into it.

I want my, almost gone house because of the flooding in the Midwest, to be viewed by Pres Obama and have him write me a check. Instead, he's on the other side of the state, campaigning! I'm spoiled! I want what I paid for!

I want the Social Security Administration to catch lawbreakers. Locally, boy, DID they! It only took em 20 years! The daughter was caught after that time frame for accepting SS payments for her mother, WHO'D BEEN DEAD 20 YEARS!!!! You know HOW they caught it? Mom was turning 104 so they thought they might do a routine check!


Yeah, you're right! This is the mindset of America. It's MY mindset. And you know what? I ain't gonna change UNTIL, notice, UNTIL, this gooberment takes the lead. And not on paper, in deeds, in action, in leadership. It ain't gonna happen.


This country's gonna go down because of oil consumption? Hardly. It's gonna go down because of lack of leadership, ON ALL LEVELS, Dems, Reps, Ind, TP, all.


Yeah, ridership on a train is gonna change the world. You ever been on a train? It's like boarding, you wanna call "America's Most Wanted" and say, "Un, I think I've found em all".


Carry on


Race

Boy oh boy... where to start. Lets start with social security. You have to understand, Social Security isnt failing because its a "failing" program, not at all, its a program that was intended on helping women and children who were widowed during WWII. It was expanded later to include senior citizens due to the rising cost of living and the standards of wages that were so low from 1920 through 1966 that an average person could not save enough to retire on.

This voluntary program was working fine until Ronald Reagan starting placing I.O.U's into the fund while growing the military arm of this country with YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY money. Again with BUSH 1 social security was borrowed from, then with Clinton, he also took money out of the fund.

Read this:
"
So what did Reagan and his boys do? The gang-that-couldn’t-count-straight decided that here was a pile of money they could steal to make themselves look better. And so they did. They took $84.5 billion from Social Security surpluses and spent it. They spent all of it in order to cut the size of the public debt. In 1988, for example, the national debt was $194 billion dollars. But by spending our Social Security funds, the Reagan Administration reported a deficit of only $155.2 billion. They took $38.8 billion of our Social Security funds to spend presumably on tax cuts and missiles for Iran. (Iran-gate.)
Fast forward to George H.W. Bush. He had deficits between 1989 and 1992 of $205 billion, $277 billion, $321 billion, and $340 billion. During that same period he stole from us $52 billion, $57 billion, $52 billion and $50 billion to make those numbers smaller when reported to the public.
Next came Clinton, who tried to do something about the deficits, which is about all that can be said for him. In 1993, he still had a deficit of $300 billion and although they went down every year ($258 b, $226 b, $174 b, $103 b, $30 b, and then went positive…$1.9 b and $87 b, he continued to spend our Social Security. For example, in 1998, when the deficit was $30 billion, the announced government surplus was $69.2 billion. But that was by using $99.2 billion of the Social Security surplus."" (end)

The fund should have been left alone, but politicians stole that money DIRECTLY from YOU.

Next came the exodus of jobs out of this country. A republican plan begining with NAFTA. As each job leaves the country so does employee contributions to social security. In order for social security to remain solid, it needs to operate on "a dollar in for a dollar out" principle.

That is no longer the case with over 14 million jobs being sent out of this country.

You want a solution to fixing social security?

Cutting it isnt the answer. Returing jobs to this country is.

The blame falls on the republicans and big business for creating this mess in social security.

Peace.

 

[moreluck]

Jobs out of this country? Oh, like Obama paying for S. America to drill for oil....creating jobs for them. He's part of the problem!

 

[The Other Side]

Jobs out of this country? Oh, like Obama paying for S. America to drill for oil....creating jobs for them. He's part of the problem!

IS this the best you can offer to the debate?

Ima go with ....FAIL.

Peace.

 

[trplnkl]

IS this the best you can offer to the debate?

Ima go with ....FAIL.

Peace.

So it's OK with you for your guy to keep up the tradition? Hypocrite

 

[moreluck]

You're gonna find it hard to debate yourself!!

 

[raceanoncr]

Boy oh boy... where to start. Lets start with social security. Peace.

Huh? "Boy oh boy...where to start. Lets start with social security."

I wrote about 7 paragraphs on various issue I'm facing or haved face right now and you start with one of the smallest issues in my diatribe and then misinterpret! Did I say anything about SS failing and who's to blame? Go back and read. I was merely reflecting on an issue of accountibility here. It took administrators 20 years to catch someone! Did I go into what it was intended for and who is now included or how it's gonna fail or who is helping it fail? And if you wanna compare Dems to Reps...under whose administration is SS now? Your reply? "Change takes time". Not with me! If I'm boss, I can change something NOW!

Focus.

Carry on

Race