How does Healthcare work

[Turdferguson]

Turd, one obvious way to tell someone is full of it is when they pick out one thing in a long list to nit-pick, gnaw on it like a dog on a bone, and think they rebutted the whole post by appealing to a single anecdote at their local facility.

You've checked all of those boxes. And you're wrong, but you're so intent on being wrong that you are simply not worth my time. I post here, and sometimes respond to nonsense like yours, for the benefit of those who are reading, not out of any delusion that someone can talk sense to you.

Only quoted that one part Wilbur because it stood out to me as being the most laughable of what you had posted. In no way shape or form was I attempting to rubut your entire post by quoting that one part.
As for your assertion that I am picking on a guy making less then me, nothing could be further from the truth. He said he didn't know what a scab was so I pointed out what one was.
Let me ask you this Wilbur, are you in the union now? What have you done to promote union membership and strengh?
From your old posts I notice that at one point you took the management path left then came back for those union negotiated benefits that you claim part-timers don't get anymore.

 

[Faceplanted]

When did you start?

This is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, using the CPI (which understates inflation): CPI Inflation Calculator

Turd, above, says he started at $8.50 in 1989. That is either dishonest or ignorant. He did not start at $8.50. According to the underestimate of inflation by the BLS, he started at $16.70 at the bare minimum, and each raise he got was worth far more.

Let some part-timer come in here and say he deserves $16.70 to start, and all the guys (like Turd, and probably you) who actually did start at that rate will call him crazy, entitled, etc.



But you do know for certain that it did not take a year. For most of the time, it was after 30 working days, and then gradually moved up to a few months. Now, it's a year.



I have 7 years of seniority and a $1/hr skill bonus, and I'm just now getting to where Turd started with no skills and no seniority. How long did it take you to get to top rate while full-time? 2 years? At most? Double that, now.



Silliness. We are not going FT faster than anyone did before. It's slower. Why would you believe that your building is representative of the entire country?

It's like all you guys got together and said, "Hey, I've got an idea! Let's pay these kids half of what we got, and then make fun of them for quitting too much! Let's leave them without health insurance and then mock them for not working hard! Let's string them along at less than top-rate for twice as long, and then congratulate ourselves for having it so hard back-in-the-day! Pay your dues, you scab! Ha ha ha ha!"

Or about 2.5x minimum wage which in today's money is about 25 bucks an hour.

 

[wilberforce15]

Only quoted that one part Wilbur because it stood out to me as being the most laughable of what you had posted. In no way shape or form was I attempting to rubut your entire post by quoting that one part.
As for your assertion that I am picking on a guy making less then me, nothing could be further from the truth. He said he didn't know what a scab was so I pointed out what one was.
Let me ask you this Wilbur, are you in the union now? What have you done to promote union membership and strengh?
From your old posts I notice that at one point you took the management path left then came back for those union negotiated benefits that you claim part-timers don't get anymore.

I am a member of the union (in a state where I have a choice about it), though I regularly wish I was not. And, I am active on grieving contract violations and talking to new guys within the hub, although I do not attend most meetings, as I need to keep my third job and my side business going.

But hey, at least my union has ensured that after seven years, I am almost making your starting rate.

 

[upschuck]

When did you start?

This is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, using the CPI (which understates inflation): CPI Inflation Calculator

Turd, above, says he started at $8.50 in 1989. That is either dishonest or ignorant. He did not start at $8.50. According to the underestimate of inflation by the BLS, he started at $16.70 at the bare minimum, and each raise he got was worth far more.

Let some part-timer come in here and say he deserves $16.70 to start, and all the guys (like Turd, and probably you) who actually did start at that rate will call him crazy, entitled, etc.



But you do know for certain that it did not take a year. For most of the time, it was after 30 working days, and then gradually moved up to a few months. Now, it's a year.



I have 7 years of seniority and a $1/hr skill bonus, and I'm just now getting to where Turd started with no skills and no seniority. How long did it take you to get to top rate while full-time? 2 years? At most? Double that, now.



Silliness. We are not going FT faster than anyone did before. It's slower. Why would you believe that your building is representative of the entire country?

It's like all you guys got together and said, "Hey, I've got an idea! Let's pay these kids half of what we got, and then make fun of them for quitting too much! Let's leave them without health insurance and then mock them for not working hard! Let's string them along at less than top-rate for twice as long, and then congratulate ourselves for having it so hard back-in-the-day! Pay your dues, you scab! Ha ha ha ha!"

If you can't logically see where more jobs, and higher ratio translates into a shorter wait time, then there is no use discussing anything further.

 

[upschuck]

Or about 2.5x minimum wage which in today's money is about 25 bucks an hour.

When did $18.10 equal $25? Exaggeration kills your credibility

 

[wilberforce15]

If you can't logically see where more jobs, and higher ratio translates into a shorter wait time, then there is no use discussing anything further.

Ceteris Paribus, yes, it would push the wait time downward. But, it is not the only factor. Over the same time period, you have route consolidation, much higher SPORH standards, longer driver hours, and a large cohort of people over age 50 crowding the pipeline.

I've seen the seniority lists for every center and hub in my district, with all Full-Timers also listed with their PT start date and FT start date. The gap between those dates, in every single center in my district, is larger than ever and growing. And we're in a relatively prosperous area.

Since you are unable or unwilling to learn why Turd got more money on his first day than I do after seven years, I figured you might as well learn what ceteris paribus means. It means "other things being equal." But other things aren't equal, and I've provided the major counterbalancing factors that undo the effect of ratio changes and combo jobs.

When did $18.10 equal $25? Exaggeration kills your credibility

It being $18.10, or $16.70, or anything in-between, is somehow supposed to help your point and not his?

 

[Faceplanted]

When did $18.10 equal $25? Exaggeration kills your credibility

Minimum wage was 3.39 in 1989

Ups payed 8.50

Minimum wage is around 10.00 now...

Ups pays minimum wage

If we use that as a ratio, your pay rate in 89 is equal to mid 20s an hour now. So don't say u had it bad or know what these part timers are going through/or been there done that because u have no clue

Your math isn't every good as all of you can't figure out how huge of a different that is

I talked to many old timers in my hub, they said they lived like kings making 8.50hr in the late 80s part time. Most had bad ass rides, a bachelor pad, and all the beer money one could ask for. And this was all working part time.

Today ups part time workers are well below the poverty line.

 

[Dracula]

No but would it feel right to get industry leading benefits without paying for them as part of your union dues?

THANK YOU.

 

[Gear]

Starting at UPS 20 years ago is a different job from guys starting now.

I get tired of guys who never had a progression telling guys in a progression its, "paying their dues". Or, "Putting your time in." If you didnt "pay that due", shut your mouth.

 

[upschuck]

Minimum wage is around 10.00 now...

.

$7.25

 

[By The Book]

Starting at UPS 20 years ago is a different job from guys starting now.

I get tired of guys who never had a progression telling guys in a progression its, "paying their dues". Or, "Putting your time in." If you didnt "pay that due", shut your mouth.

I got nothin!

 

[upschuck]

I talked to many old timers in my hub, they said they lived like kings making 8.50hr in the late 80s part time. Most had bad ass rides, a bachelor pad, and all the beer money one could ask for. And this was all working part time.

They were lying to you, extrapolate that out using your numbers, that would be about $25k now, hardly kinglike.

 

[Faceplanted]

$7.25

Thanks for the correction... Although you are wrong as many states are higher. Mine is 8.05

So that would equate 8.50 in 1989 to about 18-25hr for starting part time pay if we use today's money. You keep proving our points. We might be off a dollar or two, but the union seems to be off way more than that for a fair starting wage. Why should it be ok for us to give part timers a hard time who get paid peanuts, have no insurance and are treated like crap of they don't want to pay dues?

I'll be dead honest I didn't pay dues till I started driving. What am I paying dues for as a part timer? the pay is no longer industry leading, the benefits only are after a year.....

 

[wilberforce15]

They were lying to you, extrapolate that out using your numbers, that would be about $25k now, hardly kinglike.

That is absolutely king-like for guys paying what tuition was in the 80's, living with friends, etc. as 18-25 year olds are known to do, especially when compared to what it is now, when 100% of your earnings don't even cover tuition....

Now, even in that same situation, these guys are lucky to get 10-12k. Yes, $25k is king-like compared to that.

UPS used to have to shut down the whole street the hub is on for job fairs. Now, we have to go fishing from the unemployment line and recruit people as they are leaving jails just to get bodies.

 

[upschuck]

That is absolutely king-like for guys paying what tuition was in the 80's, living with friends, etc. as 18-25 year olds are known to do, especially when compared to what it is now, when 100% of your earnings don't even cover tuition....

Now, even in that same situation, these guys are lucky to get 10-12k. Yes, $25k is king-like compared to that.

UPS used to have to shut down the whole street the hub is on for job fairs. Now, we have to go fishing from the unemployment line and recruit people as they are leaving jails just to get bodies.

If you can follow thoughts, that $25K was what they would be making NOW, not in the past.

TTKU

 

[upschuck]

Thanks for the correction... Although you are wrong as many states are higher. Mine is 8.05

Why don't you move to Seattle, it is $13 there.

 

[Turdferguson]

I'll be dead honest I didn't pay dues till I started driving. What am I paying dues for as a part timer? the pay is no longer industry leading, the benefits only are after a year.

You don't pay dues to support the union, but want the union to do a better job as far as pay goes for a part timer?
There is the rub. If as a part timer you don't participate in the process don't expect others to look out for your best interests

 

[Inthegame]

I'll be dead honest I didn't pay dues till I started driving. What am I paying dues for as a part timer? the pay is no longer industry leading, the benefits only are after a year.....

You didn't pay dues...now that's a real shocker. Apparently you've missed the biggest point. You're now a driver. How did that happen? Because the union negotiated the language to allow PT's to fill driver jobs. UPS would prefer every FT job from off the street. It's the union that has helped freeloaders such as yourself get that FT job. Keep defunding the union and those benefits that come as a full timer will be history. You'd better be thinking forward and pay dues or that full time job won't be worth it.

 

[Faceplanted]

Chicken or the egg??!

Maybe if you old timers weren't so selfish, actually thought about the part timers and made sure they received fair pay... Just maybe they would be a lot more willing to pay dues. I know i would have.

In rtw states most part timers don't pay dues... They are sold out from the second they get hired. 5-10% of their pay is a lot, especially when they have to pay for their own health care for the first year. Seriously swallow your emotions and think about it logically for a sec.

The second i received fair wages I did the right thing and signed up right away. I'm not saying my way is right, but you guys need to lay off the kool aid

There is more to lack of union funding than simply pt guys not paying. the corruption, waste of money on bs campaigns, and general Mis management has a lot more to do with its

I'm working on being an on road sup. Should be there soon! Than I can be 100% anti union!!!!

How's your guys pension doing?

 

[PiedmontSteward]

Ahhh, BrownCafe, where people making $90k berate people making $10k for being freeloaders and scabs. People who started with a decent wage, fast benefits, and fast development to full-time, and quick progression to top pay, now throw stones at those who don't. Yeah, clearly the guy working three jobs with no opportunity for full-time work is the problem when he doesn't want to pay $250 per year, or skip his third job to attend a union meeting a hundred miles from his house, from which he will receive no benefit.

If you are an experienced full-timer, you were never paid as little, or waited as long for benefits, as this new guy. Instead of explaining to him the benefits of the union and drawing him in to be an invested brother, securing the future of the Teamsters, you decide to teach him that being in the union means screwing the guy below you, forgetting the guy above you, and generally being a pissy, entitled buffoon who just loves to haze people.

You make some good points, but as a PTer pulling down $27k/year at UPS that has to work side jobs, there's simply no excuse to be a scab.

That being said, its a joke that starting pay isn't in the $12-15/hour range and it takes a year to get health insurance.