Hypocrisy 101

[island1fox]

Please Island, could you wake up and smell the CON job! Since the end of the FDR era when Truman left office in Jan. 1953' and even counting the current first year not yet complete of Obama, Republicans have controlled the White House 36 years to the Democrats 21 (the 1 counting Obama) and yet in all that time where the republican party held power (with 6 years of Bush 2 controlling all 3 branches) not once in any real measurable terms did the gov't scale back. In all cases the size of gov't itself just in sheer numbers of those employed grew, the budget also grew (it never decreased meaning the people actually kept more of their own money) and beginning with Nixon after Bretton Woods collasped and accelerating with Reagan, the debt exploded.

In fact all this prosperity you and Tie love to crow about was in fact prosperity as a result of pure debt and now the bill is coming due. As the prosperity grew, manufactoring and industry was departing or was it the fact that in WW2 on a global scale, the manufactoring base was destroyed all except for us and for several decades we prospered via the rebuild which absorded our surplus and now that era is over and we are in our own bust cycle (to much capacity with no demand) trying to keep it all afloat borrowing from the future.

I guess there's no use suggesting you read about Alfred Sloan and his ideas and theories of business he put in place at GM that became the model study of America and now we are witnessing the decline and fall of Sloanism. It started dying in the 70's as both Japan and Europe got back on it's feet but then the 3rd world kicked it below the belt and it was all but done. I think it fitting and telling that Uncle Sam is left holding the rotten corpse of the State created dynamo that was once known as General Motors but then Alfred Sloan made his!

Yes, Obama is making it much worse and I do think we are on borrowed time right now but the simple fact is, he's just following a formula already that's been in play since literally 1913' when the Congress gave birth to the Fed and privatized the money supply to a created monopoly. I love how "liberals" blast privatization and monopolies and yet are so damn quite when it comes to the Fed, it's beyond the pale, but then the title of this thread doth apply.

I hear you guys scream communist, marxist, etc. etc. when it comes to Obama and IMO it just shows your own stupidity. Yes Obama is a central planner but he's a corporatist first and foremost and he's always been one. Sure he uses the "liberal" speak to the masses but is that any different from the "conservative' speak we see from republicans and yet once in office we still have all things gov't! Even true liberals and progressives are starting to call him a Faux liberal. Even the healthcare bill is pure corporatism via the sneak attack. So much for Transparency!

Sure, the democrat party and their leaders doth sucketh but so does the republican party. They were all in this together and now the very people that manipulated this entire mess I'm suppose to trust? Although I don't believe in such mythology (that comment should butter Tourist's biscuits) it's almost like the devil approaching me about following him to which I respond, "Well what about that snake and tree thing in the Garden of Eden" to which he responds, "Oh dude, that's so old testament, I've got a new thing going on and I can get you in on the ground floor!" In his case I think he means the bottom of the basement! That's how I see the republican party. Remember when Ron Paul was talking all this crazy about limiting the size of gov't, cutting the budget, paying down debt, making our money honest and free of debt and not being the world's policeman? Remember the howls of laughter and the boos he got, not from democrats but from republicans. And what are these same republicans now saying?

"I swear baby, I've learned my lesson, just do it one more time and I swear I won't kvm in your mouth again!"

So go ahead, completely ignore the record and facts and just stick that head of yours back in the box. I've no doubt around here, you'll have plenty of company from both sides of the political isle!

wkmac,
You obviously haved all the answers --maybe you should be President.
In this country when Politicians and Government stay out of the way --We have the most opportunity that anyone on the Planet to fulfill our personal growth and development.
Since it seems you have all the answers --if not capitalism and the U.S. system --with all of our faults --what would you like to see?
Dictatorship ?? Communism ?? Socialism ?? Pick your "system" that will be so much better !!

 

[tieguy]

TIEGUY,

ZZZZZZZZZZZ....Yawn...wake me when you have something relevant to post.

Peace

Backside,

rest easy it definitely will not be any of your material.

 

[tieguy]

Island... , I'm sorry, but your such a mark for the republican party it's obvious. Stop trying to make believe your some kind of partial Independent....just admit your new alliance is with the Tea Party crowd.. a bunch of disenfranchised white conservatives, following every word of Conservative guru, Bill Kristol and the cast of Fox News commentaters. Think for a moment, if you had became President, would you rather have had inherited Clinton's reign or GW Bush ? Let's see how you spin this ? It's pretty obvious, after every Republican Adm, there's a huge mess to clean up.......GW had it easy compared to BO...

I believe you owe us some information as to which tea partys you went to as well as the demagraphics of those partys. Unless....you're just making this stuff..up....naaaa I'm sure thats not it.

 

[wkmac]

wkmac,
You obviously haved all the answers --maybe you should be President.
In this country when Politicians and Government stay out of the way --We have the most opportunity that anyone on the Planet to fulfill our personal growth and development.
Since it seems you have all the answers --if not capitalism and the U.S. system --with all of our faults --what would you like to see?
Dictatorship ?? Communism ?? Socialism ?? Pick your "system" that will be so much better !!

Dictatorship? Communism? Socialism?

Well I see the box analogy was more correct than I even realized. But for starters, NO ONE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS FOR ALL SITUATIONS! There in lay the fallacy of both political parties or any party for that fact that you can legislate perfection. Humans are a species of constant change and constant unpredictibility all because of the choices from one moment to the next that we will make in the name of our own self interests. The only way some means of centralized legislation might even work on a large percentage is by limiting choices, even in some cases down to one but this requires the force of a state and the point of a gun to do so. Problem with that, who decides the one, whose in control and how do you prevent the wrong people from being in control and the honest answer is, you can't, it's impossible.

But if you want an answer anyway, here you are and I'll give you 2. I'd choose either classical liberalism of the 18th/19th century mold but before you see that evil word liberalism and have a Pavlov's moment, you might consider this explanation of American Classical Liberalism that might have a familar tone to it. Better yet, I'd choose voluntaryism which can be seen somewhat in the ideal of American Classical Liberalism as long at the right of succession at any time is respected.

If good gov't had to earn your business just like the good business man, it's is less likely a place where the thief and the false witness would find fruit so easy to pick!

 

[wkmac]

Island... , I'm sorry, but your such a mark for the republican party it's obvious. Stop trying to make believe your some kind of partial Independent....just admit your new alliance is with the Tea Party crowd.. a bunch of disenfranchised white conservatives, following every word of Conservative guru, Bill Kristol and the cast of Fox News commentaters. Think for a moment, if you had became President, would you rather have had inherited Clinton's reign or GW Bush ? Let's see how you spin this ? It's pretty obvious, after every Republican Adm, there's a huge mess to clean up.......GW had it easy compared to BO...

I'd agree with some of what you say but only in the sense of the really big "so-called" tea party events which IMO are mostly media stunts designed to profit from attention. Case in point was one night last year where there were numerous so-called Tea parties around the country of which Fox News and other media personas got face time and profitted. The wife of the lawyer my wife works for got all dressed up in full blown red, white and blue to attend the big event here but the real reason she was going was so she could see Sean Hannity, live and in living color. In other words, she had the hots for the Baby Jesus. You have to live here to understand that comment.

Anyhoo, to me, the whole event was nothing more than a political American Idol performance but that's me. I also understand articles like this one go a long way to prove your point but there is a flipside that from my POV I find rather positive and hopeful that paints a different picture of some of the tea party movement.

American Thinker had an interesting article last week on the Tea party movement and the GOP and I'll quote:

Rasmussen [FONT=times new roman,times]reports[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] that the Tea Party Movement, which percolated only months ago, is beating the Grand Old Party.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]That's amazing -- a nascent grassroots movement is more popular than a long-established political party -- and it's good news.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]Republican Party leaders should be embarrassed. Instead, the Republican establishment disdains this populist uprising. Rather than embracing this genuine movement, establishment politicians and consultants are calculating how to co-opt, sideline, or even defeat the newest phenomenon in politics: tea partiers.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]That would be arrogance, not leadership. It could be the downfall of Republican leaders, who have taken the Party of Reagan to the Party of No -- meaning No Ideas, No Leadership, and No Principles.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]What's driving the Tea Party phenomenon? Robert Stacy McCain [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]writes[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] at American Spectator about one tea partier, Rhonda Lee Welsch, who says, "'It's a systemic problem,' discussing the top-down approach of leaders in both parties who seem indifferent to the concerns of ordinary Americans."[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]People realize that big-government career politicians aren't going to save America (if it's not too late for that already). Like a modern-day court of Louis XVI, our leaders are disconnected from the people. An uprising is taking place, yet our political leaders seem more interested in playing a good round of golf.[/FONT]

The very statist conservative types you speak of are not happy at all with the tea party movement because while Sean Hannity was having his own private party on the back of the movement, there were smaller, lesser known gatherings taking place around the country, and still are, where little PR was generated and at these gathering there was a constant tone of rejection of both political parties. In many cases, there are also folks who call themselves "leftist" showing up, not to protest, but to stand with those opposing the warfare/empire state. The cross talk amongst these folks is generating all kinds of common ground and a finding by both of opposition to the corporate state and their roots back to classical liberalism of the 18th and 19th century.

This scares not only the GOP but the democrat party too for obvious reasons but if we ever get into regular election cycles where multiple parties are on the ballots and no one ever wins with a clear pure majority, the whole illusion of majority rule (it's an illusion when you factor in the number of people elligible to vote but who actually don't) will become obvious (put "none of the above" on the ballot and it's over) and start to fall on it's face if not to it's death. And I'll be at that funeral with the second line so strike up the band, it's party time!

And besides D, anytime you and I have any kind of decent, respectful conversation, it just pisses "Crotch High" off to no end, so thus my real motive for responding.


What can I say, I love beating dumb dogs!

 

[island1fox]

Island,

I think you just managed to make Diesel's point in your whole post. I highlighted everything that has been established as FAUX news talking points. Nothing you posted is of any FACT.

You see, you are the classic example of manipulated opinion. If I was to challenge you on any ONE of the highlighted lines in your post, you would be unable to sustain the position with any facts.

You my friend, are the type of guy who watches FAUX news religiously and then believes "he" is informed.

When Reagan was in office, his second year saw unemployment reach 10.7%, every month since he took office in 1980, unemployment rose steadily. Every month, Reagan and his co-horts blamed Jimmy carter's policies for causing it.

Reagan blamed Carter for the next 6 years, before realizing that it was "HE" and not Carter who was causing the nations financial woes.

Its simply amazing how you can sit here and say that OBAMA is NOT having to deal with a disaster left for him by Bush. How big of a disaster do you and the other right wing supporters believe Bush left the country?

Why was it ok for Reagan to blame Carter and Obama cant blame Bush?

If you go back and read only the highlighted lines of your post, it will be clear to see that you are full of right wing talking points and not substance.

Why dont you try and demonstrate your political knowledge?

Show us where the democrats are responsible for the housing crash vs. President Bush's "homeownership society" program of 2002, President Bush's "Zero Downpayment" initiative of 2002, President Bush's "downpayment assistance" initiative of 2002???

Bush directed Both Fannie mae and Freddie mac to set aside 459 billion dollars to cover the estimated 5.6 million new homes that were to be sold over the next 10 (from 2002) to middle and LOWER income americans and I am sure YOU CAN DEMONSTRATE where the democrats were responsible for this right?

Show us where any democrat had anything to do with the housing crisis, and not just post some talking points?

Island, Diesels point is clear and you confirmed it.

You are the classic "personality type" for right wing rhetoric. You can be easily manipulated by "talking points" that substitute for facts.

With respect for this thread, you are the classic hypocrite. In another thread, you rambled on about abortion and voiced an opinion about the republicans being the party of moral vales. However, for over 18 years, the republican party itself paid for abortions for its members thru the very insurance it offered its members.

There are thousands of abortions in this country every year, and not all of them are performed on democrats.

This issue has been used on the right wing masses for decades to keep them inline, and yet behind the scenes, they use abortion like any other american.

The right wing has no intention of outlawing abortion, they need this issue to remain as is, so they can highlight it in campaigns so people like you will side with them.

One thing a person needs to know when involving themselves in political debates. Separate facts from fiction, facts from talking points.

You have been unable to do either.

TOS,
Everything posted is false ????
Have you been enjoying the health care debate on c-span ????
Yeah your right --its always those Republicans pushing housing and welfare benefits for minorities ??? What Planet are you on ???
You cannot re-write history ----Please do a little research --How about the House hearings on Fannie and Freddie ---Lets see those bad Republicans --Barney Frank, Maxime Waters, Congressmen Meeks NY?????
This is a waste of my time !!!!! Lets see now I understand --Republicans are for open borders,Gay Marriage, Abortion, Public option health care ???
Must be good to be in LA-LA land

 

[island1fox]

Wkmac,
Yawn!!! glad we are not related. As I pointed out to diesel and Tos --I consider myself an Independent . I have no problem admitting that I truly lean right --my beliefs --not yours, diesels or tos.
I do not live in the past --nor in La -La land --where we now have diesel telling me how the Republican Party supports Abortion --because PRIVATE insurance companies they have done business with have provided Abortion coverage --big strech there ---also it was the Republican's that pushed lowering of Bank Lending standards --so the MINORITIES they have always supported could own homes ????
My main point to you ---neither right or left --Repubs or Dems are anywhere close to perfect --but instead of always just throwing rocks --and choosing a system or political party that is a fantasy --voluntaryism--you sometimes have to choose between two reality evils or enjoy yourself in LA-LA land

 

[tieguy]

Pssst Backside I got it.

The hypocrisy was the world burning up all those resources to have a climate change meeting end without an agreement.

Or appendix B could be that here we have Obama the great peace maker supposedly earning the worlds love and respect yet he could not nail down a climate change agreement from those same people that supposedly love and admire him.

Thanks again for creating this thread to expose your administrations many hypocrisies.

 

[tieguy]

Speaking of hypocrisys... You did mention them did you not?

The US is in deep deep debt with the defiict at 12 trillion. Not to mention the 2 to 3 trillion Obama is getting ready to tack on with these frivolous "job creation bills".

We go to the climate circus and promise billions to help developing nations clean up their act. Whats a few hundred billion more on the ole credit card.

For some reason we object to spending money on our security but think its well spent to throw it in the lap of third world countries with no accountability or controls in place.

Now I believe China bought the last couple trillions worth of our debt?

Who do we try to piss off in this little staged circus?

China of course because along with spending billions to help those developing countries that regularly piss on us we also want to spend a few billions to help monitor everyone to make sure they do what they promise.

In reality we could have let China committ to some soft language if getting the whole world committed really helped the overall cause.

Ya know backside there is an expression for these types of foriegn policy disasters that refrences stepping on ones male member.

Well in Obamas case he has his footprints tatooed on his johnson.

 

[tieguy]

Anyone keeping a foriegn policy scorecard on Obama? It does not look like he has impressed anyone except the swedes who apparently fell in love with his good looks and gave him a noble for nothing.

It appears the only points he has scored has been for his deep bows. He did bow did he not? I hope he didn't dip down that far because he was getting nasty with Japans PM.

 

[wkmac]

there were smaller, lesser known gatherings taking place around the country, and still are, where little PR was generated and at these gathering there was a constant tone of rejection of both political parties. In many cases, there are also folks who call themselves "leftist" showing up, not to protest, but to stand with those opposing the warfare/empire state. The cross talk amongst these folks is generating all kinds of common ground

It's even starting to percolate at Daily Kos.

 

[diesel96]

It's even starting to percolate at Daily Kos.

If those elected in the House and Congress can't grow a spine, and pass the originally planned legislation, not this watered downed fillerbustered crap with under the table payoffs, it's about time Progressive Heavywieghts such as Howard Dean, Arianna Huffington, Olberman are finally speaking out and reminding these weak knee willy Dem's and this Administration who they work for. Not the pathological lying Republicans, not the Insurance/Pharma lobby but for the people who voted them for real change.
If things don't change, I'd like to see a Progressive sub-party within the Democratic Party, but we have to stay officially Democrats & essentially take over the party from within -- as the Evangelicals and neo-cons did so effectively with the Republican party.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-tv/arianna-discusses-senate_b_368537.html

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=11534

 

[moreluck]

The Nebraska senator was a hold out until they paid his state off with millions (coming from the rest of us). Louisiana too. Bunch of dirty rotten scoundrels. They should all fall in a snowdrift!!

 

[tieguy]

I'd agree with some of what you say but only in the sense of the really big "so-called" tea party events which IMO are mostly media stunts designed to profit from attention. Case in point was one night last year where there were numerous so-called Tea parties around the country of which Fox News and other media personas got face time and profitted. The wife of the lawyer my wife works for got all dressed up in full blown red, white and blue to attend the big event here but the real reason she was going was so she could see Sean Hannity, live and in living color. In other words, she had the hots for the Baby Jesus. You have to live here to understand that comment.

Anyhoo, to me, the whole event was nothing more than a political American Idol performance but that's me. I also understand articles like this one go a long way to prove your point but there is a flipside that from my POV I find rather positive and hopeful that paints a different picture of some of the tea party movement.

American Thinker had an interesting article last week on the Tea party movement and the GOP and I'll quote:



The very statist conservative types you speak of are not happy at all with the tea party movement because while Sean Hannity was having his own private party on the back of the movement, there were smaller, lesser known gatherings taking place around the country, and still are, where little PR was generated and at these gathering there was a constant tone of rejection of both political parties. In many cases, there are also folks who call themselves "leftist" showing up, not to protest, but to stand with those opposing the warfare/empire state. The cross talk amongst these folks is generating all kinds of common ground and a finding by both of opposition to the corporate state and their roots back to classical liberalism of the 18th and 19th century.

This scares not only the GOP but the democrat party too for obvious reasons but if we ever get into regular election cycles where multiple parties are on the ballots and no one ever wins with a clear pure majority, the whole illusion of majority rule (it's an illusion when you factor in the number of people elligible to vote but who actually don't) will become obvious (put "none of the above" on the ballot and it's over) and start to fall on it's face if not to it's death. And I'll be at that funeral with the second line so strike up the band, it's party time!

And besides D, anytime you and I have any kind of decent, respectful conversation, it just pisses "Crotch High" off to no end, so thus my real motive for responding.


What can I say, I love beating dumb dogs!

YouTube- Foghorn Leghorn Ass Whipping moments

Another Wkmac masterpiece. In fact when they give out the end of year awards here at the brown cafe I'm thinking you may have earned one. Maybe create a Maytag award for you in recognition of high bandwdith eating posts and threads that are rarely viewed.

 

[tieguy]

Hey backside I'm having a hard time keepting up with the hypocrisys.

1) Defict was created by Bush I'm told. Obama and his democratic congressional henchment then make Bush look like a tightwad.

2) When it came time to sell this bloated pig called health care reform we then find out that not having health care is what is actually creating the deficit.

Again my thanks for creating this thread to list this administrations many hypocrisys.