Immigration

tieguy

Banned
The immigrants who built America were legal.

I knew we'd get to this point. Lets start with German fugutive ancestors who broke the law of their German-speaking state by emigrating.
And here are your Puritan New England ancestors, who came here as criminals because of their defiance of the laws concerning religion in England. You might cry "freedom of religion".

How so? The act of getting on a boat and emigrating was not against the law therefore they broke no law. The concept of emigrating for religous freedom sounds nice but in reality they often faced the same type of religious oppression here. Being burned at the stake for being suspected of being a witch was one of many examples.
 

tieguy

Banned
Our culture has always tolerated thousands and millions of people who spoke other languages and clung together in memory of the old country. And then, a few generations later, we were all Americans together.

nice thought but in reality there was little tolerance. The irish , italians, germans , chinease all faced their share of intolerance. The wild frontier settled by our immigrating ancestors also brought a lifestyle of lawlessness. In todays world one reason we look to control our borders is to keep out the lawless threats that wish to cross. It about controlling the population so this country can adequately provide the resources needed. Many of the things you have previously criticized as being inadequate in this country are fueled by the millions of illegal aliens that have snuck across our borders. In the end its about a controlled methodical immigration process that minimizes the lawless threats.

Your fear of these immigrants(legal or illegal) merely shows your complete ignorance of American history.

I would argue that blaming the desire to control our borders on a fear of the poor would be an act of ignorance.

We're all Americans. We changed each other – the Irish, the Italians, the Spanish, the Germans, the Black slaves, the Russian Jews, the Chinese, the Japanese, they all came here and changed the way we talk and think and dress and sing and dance and read and write and it was always still America. Until now. It seems like some of you want to dismantle The Statue of Liberty and send it back to France in a wooden box.

I think you have to expect that some things have to change at some time. God said be fruitfull and multiply. He said it when people didn't live much past the age of thirty. Would he still expect us to do so when we have twenty billion people living on this earth. Immigration of the type you refer to was beneficial to us at one time. In todays world a more orderly mean of allowing immigration is needed. It allows us to adequately plan our communities
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
How so? The act of getting on a boat and emigrating was not against the law therefore they broke no law. The concept of emigrating for religous freedom sounds nice but in reality they often faced the same type of religious oppression here. Being burned at the stake for being suspected of being a witch was one of many examples.

Many of the German/English Immigrants for example were enlisted in the Military(deserters)....have not paid off debts and properties when they left....many were under age without an accompanying adult....many were not cleared of having warrents and background checks...There citizenship was not cleared by their original countries....

nice thought but in reality there was little tolerance. The irish , italians, germans , chinease all faced their share of intolerance. The wild frontier settled by our immigrating ancestors also brought a lifestyle of lawlessness.

But it predominatly brought a lifestyle of prosperity.....Why shed light on all the negative ? To try to prove a point?
This is not the Wild West anymore, we have more "Sherriff's" on "The Wild Frontier"

I think you have to expect that some things have to change at some time. God said be fruitfull and multiply. He said it when people didn't live much past the age of thirty. Would he still expect us to do so when we have twenty billion people living on this earth. Immigration of the type you refer to was beneficial to us at one time. In todays world a more orderly mean of allowing immigration is needed. It allows us to adequately plan our communities

Your scaring me Tie, sounds more like a pro speech for Genicide.
 

DS

Fenderbender
Tie? did you really write all that or did you borrow it?
You guys have over 200 million people there in the USA.
On the head of a pin.Canada is vast,and we have more different
ethnic cultures than you can shake a ceramonial sabre at.
But I dont think you can get into Canada without a valid credit card.
Canada recently monitarily settled with Japanese immigrants that were
persecuted during the 2nd world war,so we too have our dark spots.
Personally,I truly enjoy interacting with different cultures.
The food is great....shawarmas,samosas,roti's,doubles,falaffals...
And then theres buddah...
The truth of the buddah part one:
Ok now I vant everyone to relax
sitting with your legs cross
and taking a deep breathe
your secrect mantra is...
now dont be telling anyone of
your secret mantra now,
your secret mantra is ...oon-yellyman
say it now-oon yellyman...
you can be adding to your secret mantra
your unique username
so tie would be oon tie yellyman
oon scratch yellyman
oon big_arrow_up yellyman
sorry I got carried away
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
I haven't been following this thread. I only have read the last page. Too late tonight to read it all.
I will just throw this in.
" If you want to know the importance of border control and illegal immigration, just talk to a native American."
PAX
 

moreluck

golden ticket member

Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas


A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants.That's 11,200 anchor babies born every year just in Dallas According to the article, the hospital spent $70.7 million delivering
15,938 babies in 2004 but managed to end up with almost $8 million dollars in surplus funding. Medicaid kicked in $34.5 million, DallasCounty taxpayers kicked in $31.3 million and the feds tossed in another $9.5 million.


The average patient in Parkland 's maternity wards is 25 years old, married and giving birth to her second child. She is also an illegal immigrant. By law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based on their immigration status or ability to pay.



OK, fine. That doesn't mean they should receive better care than everyday, middle-class American citizens. But at ParklandHospital , they do.

The Dallas Morning News article followed a Hispanic woman who was a patient at one of the clinics and pregnant with her third child---her previous two were also born at Parkland . Her first two deliveries were free and the Mexican native was grateful because it would have cost $200 to have them in Mexico This time, the hospital wants her to pay $10 per visit and $100 for or the delivery but she was unsure if she could come up with the money. Not that it matters, the hospital won't turn her away. (I wonder why they even bother asking at this point.)

"How long has this been going on? What are the long-term affects?

Well, another subject of the article was born at Parkland in
1986 shortly after her mother entered the U.S. illegally---now she is having her own child there as well. (That's right, she's technically a U.S. citizen.) These women receive free prenatal care including medication, nutrition, birthing classes and child care classes. They also get freebies such as car seats, bottles, diapers and formula.



Most of these things are available to American citizens as well but only for low-income applicants and even then, the red tape involved is almost insurmountable.



Because these women are illegal immigrants, they do not have to provide any sort of legitimate identification---no proof of income.
An American citizen would have to provide a social security number which would reveal their annual income---an illegal immigrant need only claim to be poor and the hospital must take them at their word.



"My husband is a pilot for the United States Navy (yes, he fought in Iraq ) and while the health care is good, we Navy wives don't get any of these perks! Car seats? Diapers? Not so much. So my question is this: Does our public medical care system treat illegal immigrants better than American citizens? Yes it does!



As I mentioned, the care I have received is perfectly adequate but it's bare bones, meat and potato medical care---not top of line.



Their (the illegal) medical care is free---simply because they are illegal immigrants? Once again, there is no way to verify their income.



ParklandHospital offers indigent care to DallasCounty residents who earn less than $40,000 per year. (They also have to prove that they did not refuse health coverage at their current job. Yeah, the 'free' care is not so easy for Americans.)



There are about 140 patients who received roughly $4 million dollars for un-reimbursed medical care. As it turns out, they did not qualify for free treatment because they resided outside of DallasCounty So the hospital is going to sue them! Illegals get it all free! But U.S citizens who live outside of DallasCounty get sued! How stupid is this?



As if that isn't annoying enough, the illegal immigrant patients are actually complaining about hospital staff not speaking Spanish. In this AP story, the author speaks with a woman who is upset that she had to translate comments from the hospital staff into Spanish for her husband. The doctor was trying to explain the situation to the family and the mother was forced to translate for her husband who only spoke Spanish.

This was apparently a great injustice to her.

In an attempt to create a Spanish-speaking staff, ParklandHospital is now providing incentives in the form of ex tra pay for applicants who speak Spanish. Additionally, medical students at the University of Texas Southwestern for which ParklandHospital is the training facility will now have a Spanish language requirement added to their already jammed-packed curriculum. No other school in the country boasts such a ridiculous multi-semester (multicultural) requirement.

In the meantime, I have to end my column here. I have to go buy a car seat."

Sorry for the length, but this needs wide circulation----particularly to our "employees" in Congress.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Just listening to TV news about 'asylum seeking Mexicans' heading for Windsor Ontario Canada.

Windsor mayor was saying it has cost the city $300,000 so far (I don't know if that's a month or what?) That's just a drop in the bucket. If it becomes a trend, Windsor could be the next "California or Arizona".

Watch out, DS.....they're coming your way!!:wink:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
CURRENT TEST - Sample U.S. Citizenship Test Questions:
  1. How many stars are there in our flag?
  2. How many states are there in the Union?
  3. What color are the stars on our flag?
  4. What do the stars on the flag mean?
  5. How many stripes are there in the flag?
  6. What date is the Day of Independence?
  7. Independence from whom?
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  9. Who was the first president of the United States?
  10. What do we call a change of the constitution?
REDESIGNED TEST - Sample U.S. Citizenship Test Questions:
  1. Name one war fought by the United States in the 1900s.
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  5. What is one responsibility that is only for United States citizens?
  6. What does the judicial branch do?
  7. Name your U.S. Representative.
  8. Who makes federal laws?
  9. What does the Constitution do?
  10. What is the supreme law of the land?
You can find all the questions, answers and a complete study guide in the U.S. Citizenship Test Study Guide.
 

1timepu

Well-Known Member
Interesting....this is from way back in 1907....

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because o friend creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Here is another good website to fight Illegal Immigration www.numbersusa.com you probably have heard of them in this fight, very helpful tool, also let me say I am not racist, in fact my wife is latino but LEGAL, this is about breaking the LAW our LAWS, it is not our job to take care of other countries poor, I do believe in helping them there in thier country.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
OK, it's been awhile so it's time for a little humor break and this one goes with the immigration topic! Hope you enjoy and benefit from the laugh. It's healthy you know.

 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I was listening to Chris Matthews. Hillary came (after waffling) out in support of the Govenor of New York's proposal to give ILLEGAL aliens a driver license!! New York will now be the weakest link in our security system and we have the "front" runner of the Democratic Party giving her support for the initiative....How do you like them apples !!?!! Was she still hung over from her birthday party?

One of the things that got Arnold elected was his adament support against giving illegals a driver license! I guess I really get excited when politicians circumvent and bend our laws for their political gain. I have a word for that and it ain't nice!

How do the rest of you feel about this turn of events from Hil!!!
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
Here is another good website to fight Illegal Immigration www.numbersusa.com you probably have heard of them in this fight, very helpful tool, also let me say I am not racist, in fact my wife is latino but LEGAL, this is about breaking the LAW our LAWS, it is not our job to take care of other countries poor, I do believe in helping them there in thier country www. numbersusa.com

Great!

I posted info about numbersusa.com a while ago and am glad to see others are using them too. I joined back in June when we had to battle the amnesty bill and won!!:cool:

Lots of great information on the website and they make it easy for you to get involved.
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
OK, it's been awhile so it's time for a little humor break and this one goes with the immigration topic! Hope you enjoy and benefit from the laugh. It's healthy you know.

Hey mac I got a good laugh outa that..I feel a little healthier now, thanks!:biggrin:

I was listening to Chris Matthews. Hillary came (after waffling) out in support of the Govenor of New York's proposal to give ILLEGAL aliens a driver license!! New York will now be the weakest link in our security system and we have the "front" runner of the Democratic Party giving her support for the initiative....How do you like them apples !!?!! Was she still hung over from her birthday party?

How do the rest of you feel about this turn of events from Hil!!!

I don't get it...While I'd like to believe that it was a because of a hang over...It's not; Hillary says what she thinks you want to hear! In this case she is going for the Hispanic vote, anything to get her elected even if it means putting the country in jeopordy...

If she gets elected I'll be moving to Mexico...That'll show her!!:w00t:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
New Immigrants
From: 'David LaBonte'

My wife, Rosemary, wrote a wonderful letter to the editor
of the OC Register which, of course, was not printed. So, I
decided to 'print' it myself by sending it out on the Internet.

Pass it along if you feel so inclined.
Dave LaBonte (signed)

Written in response to a series of letters to the editor in
the Orange County Register :

Dear Editor:
So many letter writers have based their arguments on how
this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one,
suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because
the people now in question aren't being treated the same
as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports
of entry.

Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out
to people like Mr. Lujan wh y today's American is not willing
to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in
1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to
come to the United States , people had to get off a ship and
stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some
would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the
ground.

They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their
new country in good and bad times. They made learning
English a primary rule in their new American households
and some even changed their names to blend in with their
new home. They had waved good bye to their birth place
to give their children a new life and did everything in their

power to help their children assimilate into one culture.

Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare,


no labor laws to protech them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to
trade for a future of prosperity.

Most of their children came of age when World War II
broke out. My father fought along side men whose
parents had come straight over from Germany , Italy ,
France and Japan None of these 1st generation
Americans ever gave any thought about what country
their parents had come from. They were Americans
fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan.


They were defending the United States of Americaas onepeople.

When we liberated France, no one in those villages
were looking for the French-American or the German
American or the Irish American. The people of France
saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that
represented one country. Not one of those immigrant
sons would have thought about picking up another
country's flag and waving it to represent who they were.
It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had
sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly
knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the
melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.

And here we are in 2007 with a new kind of immigrant
who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they
want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules,
one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of
being faithful to their mother country.

I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about.
I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in
the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil,
hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to
create a land that has become a beacon for those legally
searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled
that they are being used as an example by those waving
foreign country flags.

And for that suggestion ab out taking down the Statue of
Liberty, it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are
voting on the immigration bill. I wouldn't start talking
about dismantling the United States just yet.

(signed) Rosemary LaBonte
P. S. Pass this on to everyone you know!!!
KEEP THIS LETTER MOVING!!
I hope this letter gets read by millions of people all across
the nation!!

Ever onward!!

MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA










 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I just received an e-mail from the person who sent me that previous "letter to the editor" post. Snopes.com says it is false. However, that doesn't mean the things that were written are not the way I think about it too. Just posting this disclaimer.
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
More,

It's a good message regardless if it was actually sent in or not! The entitlement factor today is ridiculous.

Legal immigration is the only acceptable form of immigration we should have and that needs to be controlled better to allow assimilation into our culture without creating havoc!!:wink2:
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
From the Snopes page on this letter:

Snopes said:
This piece provides an apt illustration of the phenomenon that one can find in nearly every culture, in every era, a group of people who firmly believe that their civilization once experienced a golden age in which social conditions were much better (if not perfect), and modern society is an increasingly worsening corruption of that arcadian past. The trend continues today, as we commonly see responses to social, political, or economic issues that attempt to contrast the present with earlier eras, to hearken back to times when such problems were significantly amerliorated or simply did not exist.

Generally such reactions don't ring true, referring not to the way things really used to be, but to idealized, mythical visions of the past couched in absolute terms. So it is with this letter, which attempts to contrast the "modern immigrant" with immigrants of a century ago, finding the former sadly lacking by comparison. As usual, it references a black-and-white past that never existed. Yes, many of the immigrants who streamed through Ellis Island into the United States around the turn of the century worked hard, obeyed the laws, did their best to learn English (and otherwise become assimiliated into American culture), raised children who willingly took up arms to defend their adoptive country in times of crisis, and made their way in the world (and perhaps even prospered) with little or no help from the government or anyone outside their immediate families and circles of acquaintances. However, plenty of immigrants in that same era did _not_ fit that mold, such as those who:

* Resorted to scams, petty theft, and all sorts of other crimes to get by, or simply resumed the same kinds of criminal activities they'd been perpetrating in their homelands, sometimes on large, organized scales (e.g., the Italian mafia, Chinese triads).
* Moved to enclaves or communities in which their original cultures and languages were preserved, obviating the need for them to ever assimiliate into the broader American culture or learn English. (If the immigrants of earlier eras "stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl," then who started all the ethnic enclaves, such as Little Germany and Chinatown , found in New York and many other American cities?) Their children (and future generations) were often left to learn English and assimilate as best they could on their own, driven by necessity rather than allegiance to American national ideals.
* Retained their original family names, or changed their names only reluctantly ? the latter not to "blend in with their new home," but to try to escape the prejudices, persecution, and violence typically visited upon members of various national, ethnic, and religious groups in the U.S. (e.g., Catholics, Jews, Irish, Italians).
* Declined to participate in fighting for the U.S. against their home countries in World War I (as did their children in World War II), or even left the U.S. to return home and fight for the other side. (And certainly many first-generation Americans of Japanese descent, who found themselves restricted to internment camps merely due to their ancestry, gave plenty of "thought about what country their parents had come from.")
* Disdained free lunches, welfare, and labor laws not because they were virtuous and prized self-sufficiency, but because those government programs did not yet exist, either for native-born American citizens or immigrants.

What this piece illustrates is not so much substantive differences between "old immigrants" and "new immigrants," but rather the truthfulness of the proverb "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."
 

Sammie

Well-Known Member
"I wouldn't start talking
about dismantling the United States just yet".


Rather than that, perhaps Mexico could become our 51st through the 81st states, as that country is made up of 31 major malfunctioning states. Although judging from the millions of Mexicans who wave their national flags in our streets at festivals and demonstrations, they may not want any part of this. They might not want to be lumped in with us any more than a New Yorker would like to be tossed in with a Texan! :cowboy:

But if we could persuade them, America could become a country of 400 million, Mexico would get 62 of the 162 Senate seats and 112 Electoral College votes out of 539.

Illegals are already helping themselves to a smorgasbord of Federal delicacies such as having their kids here for free; (thanks to Medicaid and county taxes because by law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based on immigration status), food stamps, welfare, instate tuition, and tax returns, (with an IRS issued tax ID # - no SS# required).

Hillary is dying for the Hispanic vote. I'd like to see how she'd clean up a violent and crime ridden country who begs us to accept more immigrants, where corruption has become an art form, drug cartels are pursued only when we're looking, whose resources have been abandoned, and who sports a $25 billion a year drug trafficking industry...

One big, happy family. What else are we to do?
 
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