Is there any contract language regarding reviewing personell files?

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

So what would you recommend if the training we are given consists of sitting in a room with a full time PE Supervisor who hands out the Lockout Training test, the Yard Control Safety Training Test and the Live Conveyor Training Test and the Sup Commences to go over the answers of the tests with the group? You're telling me I can be removed from service for not signing this nonsense??? Any suggestions?

Rather than sit there and complete the test with answers provided by your supervisor, you could actually take the time to read the material and gain an understanding of it. If that is not possible, you could ask for copies of the tests and then review them at your convenience.

 

[PE Pro]

Rather than sit there and complete the test with answers provided by your supervisor, you could actually take the time to read the material and gain an understanding of it. If that is not possible, you could ask for copies of the tests and then review them at your convenience.

Not very familiar with the PE Dept are you??????

 

[PE Pro]

It depends on how he / she is 'going over the answers'. If they are generally reviewing all of the subject matter, and in the process cover the answers, that is training. If they sit you down in a room and say don't bother reading the test, the answer to question 1 is True, the answer to question 2 is D then it's an issue. You've previously mentioned differences with your local management team, so make sure you're not letting that color your perception as some, depending upon what is actually happening, might see this as a clash of personalities. If it is truly the second scenario, use the open door policy. You don't have to go to your PE management team if you feel uncomfortable doing so. You can go to the Safety Manager or Employee Relations Supervisor / Manager (HR).

Ultimately, you, me and any other person who is lockout certified needs to understand lockout, live conveyor, etc.. Not to belabor the obvious, but the potential hazard is such that our understanding needs to be clear and certain. Both from a common sense and regulatory perspective. The training, tests, and rosters are how we demonstrate that understanding. If you are not willing to 'demonstrate' that understanding, the risk is too great to allow you to work on the equipment. If you disagree with the test, it has been accepted as appropriate by OSHA. If you are unable to legitimately answer because of inadequate training then that needs to be addressed ASAP. The best I can recommend in an anonymous world is what I said above. But I will repeat to make sure differences with your management team are not coloring your perceptions.

Almost forgot - this is my opinion and not necessarily the view of the organization.

Not real comfortable with your response, it is very similar to the response that local management gave when confronted. I am not ready to drink that brown kool-aid just yet, but I am open, let me get my glass ready. (I personally addressed this issue up to the District CHSP manager.) To be clear, I do not trust my local management up to the District Level. Why? Because they have overwhelmingly convinced me that they cannot be trusted. That is not coloring my response, because I trust you and I am still in disagreement with your response, which as I said is similar to their response.

Here is my point. Annual training is not a matter of opinion. It is either done correctly or it is fudged.

Let's pretend. Pretend I am a third party of some sort maybe a lawyer, maybe a OSHA inspector, maybe a Keter Auditer; you choose one or make up your own. This third party asks the following question:
I understand that UPS takes Lockout/Tagout training very seriously. I understand that your Lockout Authorized Employees are retrained/recertified annually.
What does the UPS Annual Lockout/Tagout training consist of?
If you don't feel comfortable answering it here, maybe you can PM the answer.

The opinions, views and thoughts that I post are mine and no one elses, that is unless you agree with me, then I guess they're yours too!

 

[pemanager]

Not real comfortable with your response, it is very similar to the response that local management gave when confronted. I am not ready to drink that brown kool-aid just yet, but I am open, let me get my glass ready. (I personally addressed this issue up to the District CHSP manager.) To be clear, I do not trust my local management up to the District Level. Why? Because they have overwhelmingly convinced me that they cannot be trusted. That is not coloring my response, because I trust you and I am still in disagreement with your response, which as I said is similar to their response.

Here is my point. Annual training is not a matter of opinion. It is either done correctly or it is fudged.

Let's pretend. Pretend I am a third party of some sort maybe a lawyer, maybe a OSHA inspector, maybe a Keter Auditer; you choose one or make up your own. This third party asks the following question:
I understand that UPS takes Lockout/Tagout training very seriously. I understand that your Lockout Authorized Employees are retrained/recertified annually.
What does the UPS Annual Lockout/Tagout training consist of?
If you don't feel comfortable answering it here, maybe you can PM the answer.

The opinions, views and thoughts that I post are mine and no one elses, that is unless you agree with me, then I guess they're yours too!

PEPro,

I am not sure I understand your question regarding a 3rd party auditor. If you are asking me how I would answer the question, I would review our CBT, the test and the hands on, Form C, verification. Been there and done that with regulatory bodies.

I guess it all boils down to the training in your case. Because we utilize a CBT, I do not understand how a supervisor can just gather everyone in a room and tell them, directly, don't worry about the subject matter just skip to the test and then don't worry about reading the questions, I will just give you the answers. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it can happen, but the format is just not conducive to it. So I am not sure how to take your statement that they just give you the answers. If they have everyone in a room and review lock out and emphasize, amongst other things, you need to know the 5 steps to lockout, etc. and tell you what they are, and then have you proceed to the CBT that is training in my mind. They are presenting information and emphasizing key points. You still have to pass the test and still have to physically demonstrate, annually, your understanding of the process separate from the test. I guess it boils down to what is actually taking place, which I can not reasonably infer from your description with any degree of certainty. What did the CHSP manager have to say?

Also, It's been awhile since I've been in a district and it may have changed, but the Safety manager, distinct from the CHSP manager, might be the person to talk to. The CHSP managers are geared toward CHSP processes and injury analysis and reduction. The Safety manager was more geared towards ensuring regulatory compliance.

I also feel the need to add that I have been in many Regions and Districts and worked with many quality mechanics and I feel there is a very solid understanding of lockout in what is, usually, a very senior and professional group.

If you would like to continue via PM that is cool too.

Lastly, I wish I could remember the standard disclaimer but anything mentioned in my posts is my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of UPS.

 

[castor915]

Your dealing with PE that's a world with alot of different rules.
Don't you like the whole do CSA questions about not walking on this that and the other? The first thing you have to do with a rolled over belt is off load it and roll it out while running.
To top it all off me being a jam breaker, I assist the PE guy to do it not even being lock out certified myself.

 

[pemanager]

Your dealing with PE that's a world with alot of different rules.
Don't you like the whole do CSA questions about not walking on this that and the other? The first thing you have to do with a rolled over belt is off load it and roll it out while running.
To top it all off me being a jam breaker, I assist the PE guy to do it not even being lock out certified myself.

Castor,
There are a set of rules for walking over a belt. Non lockout certified people can assist as long as a lockout certified person is in charge of the situation ensuring those rules are met.

 

[PE Pro]

PEPro,

I am not sure I understand your question regarding a 3rd party auditor. If you are asking me how I would answer the question, I would review our CBT, the test and the hands on, Form C, verification. Been there and done that with regulatory bodies. Yes I was. Form C is the observation form? Verification is the roster?
I guess it all boils down to the training in your case. Because we utilize a CBT, I do not understand how a supervisor can just gather everyone in a room and tell them, directly, don't worry about the subject matter just skip to the test and then don't worry about reading the questions, I will just give you the answers. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it can happen, but the format is just not conducive to it. So I am not sure how to take your statement that they just give you the answers. If they have everyone in a room and review lock out and emphasize, amongst other things, you need to know the 5 steps to lockout, etc. and tell you what they are, and then have you proceed to the CBT that is training in my mind. They are presenting information and emphasizing key points. You still have to pass the test and still have to physically demonstrate, annually, your understanding of the process separate from the test. I guess it boils down to what is actually taking place, which I can not reasonably infer from your description with any degree of certainty.No inference needed. Here is what happened: The full time sup told the porters that there was training in the conference room at 9:00am. He told the porters to tell us, the mechanics about the training.They did. Are you with me so far?When we (the mechanics) arrived at the conference room the porters were already there and so was the full time supervisor. He proceeded to hand out the Lockout Procedures Test and the Yard Safety Control test. He started with question one and he read the questions and we all answered the tests together. At the completion of the tests he gave us 2 rosters to sign. 1 for Lock Out Procedures Training and 1 for Yard Control Safety Training.No CBT, No Observations, No Hands On.What did the CHSP manager have to say?He tried to get me to drink some brown kool aid. He was pretty much shaking his head up and down saying yeah training can be done that way. He acted like he knew there was little I could do about it. He was right on there.

Also, It's been awhile since I've been in a district and it may have changed, but the Safety manager, distinct from the CHSP manager, might be the person to talk to. The CHSP managers are geared toward CHSP processes and injury analysis and reduction. The Safety manager was more geared towards ensuring regulatory compliance.

I also feel the need to add that I have been in many Regions and Districts and worked with many quality mechanics and I feel there is a very solid understanding of lockout in what is, usually, a very senior and professional group. I know lockout. I am very senior and a professional who can no longer tolerate signing off on fudged training. It is wrong.

If you would like to continue via PM that is cool too.

Lastly, I wish I could remember the standard disclaimer but anything mentioned in my posts is my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of UPS.