Jim Crow: The Sequel

[zubenelgenubi]

when you voluntarily submit yourself to tyranny its a very limited kind of freedom. friedman isnt in favor of democracy. slavery had trade.

Voluntarily submitting yourself to tyranny is one way you could descirbe being a part of society, kinda self-defeating and negative, though.

And slavery had trade? Lol! It also had oxygen.

The only way you are going to avoid the "tyranny" of trade with other people is to become self sufficient out in the wilderness. Better start boning up on your youtube survival videos.

Communism doesn't have trade, either, because no one has anything to trade, or food, or the right to do anything about that fact.

 

[rickyb]

Voluntarily submitting yourself to tyranny is one way you could descirbe being a part of society, kinda self-defeating and negative, though.

And slavery had trade? Lol! It also had oxygen.

The only way you are going to avoid the "tyranny" of trade with other people is to become self sufficient out in the wilderness. Better start boning up on your youtube survival videos.

Communism doesn't have trade, either, because no one has anything to trade, or food, or the right to do anything about that fact.

slavery had trade.

'communism' probably had trade too.

im not talking about the tyanny of trade, im talking about the tyranny of the heiarchical structure of capitalism. there are more than 1 kind of freedom some more restrictive than the others, friedman was in favor of a very restrictive freedom. chris hedges has a quote on markets and freidman too i will post it here. hopefuly your friedman superiority doesnt prevent you from reading it.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

slavery had trade.

'communism' probably had trade too.

im not talking about the tyanny of trade, im talking about the tyranny of the heiarchical structure of capitalism. there are more than 1 kind of freedom some more restrictive than the others, friedman was in favor of a very restrictive freedom. chris hedges has a quote on markets and freidman too i will post it here. hopefuly your friedman superiority doesnt prevent you from reading it.

Communists can't trade anything, they either ended up in the gulag where their tyrannical leaders forced them to labor for the benefit of the party, or they starved to death. I'll take the freedom/tyranny of free market emergent economics any day comrade.

 

[rickyb]

Communists can't trade anything, they either ended up in the gulag where their tyrannical leaders forced them to labor for the benefit of the party, or they starved to death. I'll take the freedom/tyranny of free market emergent economics any day comrade.

i find that hard to believe that russian didnt have any trade under their version of communism. they were also a superpower despite them calling htemselves communists for moral sympathies, much like china is.


"This utopian vision of the market, of course, bears no relationship to its reality. Capitalists hate free markets. They seek to control markets through mergers and acquisitions, buying out the competition. They saturate the culture with advertising to manipulate public tastes and consumption. They engage in price fixing. They build unassailable monopolies. They carry out schemes, without checks or oversight, of wild speculation, predation, fraud and theft. They enrich themselves through stock buybacks, Ponzi schemes, structured asset destruction through inflation, asset stripping and the imposition of crippling debt peonage on the public. In the United States, they saturate the electoral process with money, buying the allegiance of elected officials from the two ruling parties to legislate tax boycotts, demolish regulations and further consolidate their wealth and power.


These corporate capitalists spend hundreds of millions of dollars to fund organizations such as Business Roundtable and the Chamber of Commerce and think tanks such as The Heritage Foundation to sell the ideology to the public. They lavish universities with donations, as long as the universities pay fealty to the ruling ideology. They use their influence and wealth, as well as their ownership of media platforms, to transform the press into their mouthpiece. And they silence heretics or make it hard for them to find employment. Soaring stock values, rather than production, become the new measure of the economy. Everything is financialized and commodified.

...Unfettered capitalism, as Karl Marx pointed out, destroys the so-called free market. It is hostile to the values and traditions of a capitalist democracy. Capitalism's final stage, Marx wrote, is marked by the pillage of the systems and structures that make capitalism possible. It is not capitalism at all. "

The disaster of utopian engineering

Neoliberalism, as a class project, is a brilliant success

www.salon.com

 

[zubenelgenubi]

i find that hard to believe that russian didnt have any trade under their version of communism. they were also a superpower despite them calling htemselves communists for moral sympathies, much like china is.

Well, are they communist or not? Lol. Communism was killing them, they had to install state controlled capitalism just to survive. Didn't work as well for the russians. China survives with its hybrid socialist-capitalism because of slave labor and atrocious working conditions. No wonder you like China so much.

"This utopian vision of the market, of course, bears no relationship to its reality. Capitalists hate free markets. They seek to control markets through mergers and acquisitions, buying out the competition.

Confession through projection.

...Unfettered capitalism, as Karl Marx pointed out, destroys the so-called free market. It is hostile to the values and traditions of a capitalist democracy. Capitalism's final stage, Marx wrote, is marked by the pillage of the systems and structures that make capitalism possible. It is not capitalism at all."

Well, is it capitalism or not? Lol. Wow. Cognitive dissonance on full display.

I know, socialists (communists, neoliberalists, whatever you folks want to call yourselves to try to trick people into believing you have something new that works) have a hard time understanding reality. In reality, capitalism works so well that weak-minded people who would not have survived in less efficient economic conditions not only survive, but increase in numbers enough to start gnawing away at the foundations that allow free trade to work so well. Then, when their idiocy starts to have the predictable consequences on the market, they blame the very thing that allowed them to survive at all, and then take credit for all the great things that the system they are undermining is actually responsible for.

 

[rickyb]

Well, are they communist or not? Lol. Communism was killing them, they had to install state controlled capitalism just to survive. Didn't work as well for the russians. China survives with its hybrid socialist-capitalism because of slave labor and atrocious working conditions. No wonder you like China so much.


Confession through projection.


Well, is it capitalism or not? Lol. Wow. Cognitive dissonance on full display.

I know, socialists (communists, neoliberalists, whatever you folks want to call yourselves to try to trick people into believing you have something new that works) have a hard time understanding reality. In reality, capitalism works so well that weak-minded people who would not have survived in less efficient economic conditions not only survive, but increase in numbers enough to start gnawing away at the foundations that allow free trade to work so well. Then, when their idiocy starts to have the predictable consequences on the market, they blame the very thing that allowed them to survive at all, and then take credit for all the great things that the system they are undermining is actually responsible for.

ur quite right to call it state capitalism as they destroyed the worker self directed industries immediately. some call it a counter revolution.

the us govt and they called it communism for their own ends but it was not.

capitalism is in the process of consuming itself.

Karl Marx Was Right - Truthdig

The economist and philosopher foresaw that capitalism had built within it the seeds of its own destruction, that the greed of a tiny elite would eventually bring down the system. The final stages that he predicted are visible all around us now.

www.truthdig.com

or is it tldr for the old friedman noggin

 

[zubenelgenubi]

ur quite right to call it state capitalism as they destroyed the worker self directed industries immediately. some call it a counter revolution.

Because communism is a failure and can't help but be overtaken by despots. That's what I keep saying. Revolutionaries are despots using the false utopian promises of communism to get people worked up into a lather to overthrow the current government/economic system.

the us govt and they called it communism for their own ends but it was not.

It might as well be the same thing. They're two sides of the same bait and switch scam.

capitalism is in the process of consuming itself.

There are some internal existential issues with the current corrupted economic system in place. But they are not specific to capitalism, nor necessarily caused by capitalism. Much of why the current economic system is struggling is because of those despotic hucksters you listen to, trying to peddle their false promises of communist utopia.

Karl Marx Was Right - Truthdig

The economist and philosopher foresaw that capitalism had built within it the seeds of its own destruction, that the greed of a tiny elite would eventually bring down the system. The final stages that he predicted are visible all around us now.

www.truthdig.com

or is it tldr for the old friedman noggin

Nope, read everything I needed to read to know it's nonsense. The headline. Anyone who can actually string those words together is either out of touch with reality, or pulling your leg.

 

[rickyb]

Because communism is a failure and can't help but be overtaken by despots. That's what I keep saying. Revolutionaries are despots using the false utopian promises of communism to get people worked up into a lather to overthrow the current government/economic system.

It might as well be the same thing. They're two sides of the same bait and switch scam.



There are some internal existential issues with the current corrupted economic system in place. But they are not specific to capitalism, nor necessarily caused by capitalism. Much of why the current economic system is struggling is because of those despotic hucksters you listen to, trying to peddle their false promises of communist utopia.


Nope, read everything I needed to read to know it's nonsense. The headline. Anyone who can actually string those words together is either out of touch with reality, or pulling your leg.

orrr you are the one whos wrong.

o btw, i dont know if 25000 cooperatives in italy count as communism, they are definitely some kind of socialism, so socialism is a success in that regard. im not sure about socialist govts. its pretty common to have socialists by name anyways in power in the EU i know greece and france just did it last 10 years, but they were corrupt.

you have political vaccuums being filled in america too like what trump did in 2016.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

orrr you are the one whos wrong.

o btw, i dont know if 25000 cooperatives in italy count as communism, they are definitely some kind of socialism, so socialism is a success in that regard. im not sure about socialist govts. its pretty common to have socialists by name anyways in power in the EU i know greece and france just did it last 10 years, but they were corrupt.

you have political vaccuums being filled in america too like what trump did in 2016.

See, that's why definitions matter? Guys you listen to slap the socialism label on just anything to confuse people. I don't believe I've ever stated that I'm against co-ops. If they can be successful enough to replace companies that have corporate structures, I don't see a problem with that. But to call them socialism is a misuse of the word. They could be communistic, if everyone shared everything and no one owned any personal property, but I doubt that's what's happening.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about company structure, as I am planning on starting my own business, and I understand the problems with corporate structure. I am trying to come up with a way to compensate employees more in line with the value that they create, rather than simply paying the market rate for labor. Problem is that sharing the wealth also means sharing the failure. If the company doesn't make money, no one gets paid.

 

[rickyb]

See, that's why definitions matter? Guys you listen to slap the socialism label on just anything to confuse people. I don't believe I've ever stated that I'm against co-ops. If they can be successful enough to replace companies that have corporate structures, I don't see a problem with that. But to call them socialism is a misuse of the word. They could be communistic, if everyone shared everything and no one owned any personal property, but I doubt that's what's happening.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about company structure, as I am planning on starting my own business, and I understand the problems with corporate structure. I am trying to come up with a way to compensate employees more in line with the value that they create, rather than simply paying the market rate for labor. Problem is that sharing the wealth also means sharing the failure. If the company doesn't make money, no one gets paid.

the term socialism has been badly distorted so maybe thats why your confused about it, the term my guys use is essentially cooperatives.

coops are more likely to succeed than capitalist biz so keep that in mind and i wish u luck even though master yoda says you are too sure of urself. u have to think like an employee like myself who does bare minimum work if u are going to incentivize them to do anything.