Jonfrum

[area43]

I apologize, to all and everyone that I have offended. I will also clean up my bad language. Jonfrum I especially apologize to you. sincerely, area 43.

 

[area43]

Also, one other thing, I read this the other day. It was about Mark Twain, a great american writer. He said, when he felt ill intent against someone he would write a letter to them and set it over his fire place mantoll. Then he would wait for three days and if the anger still pursist he would send it. If the anger subsided he would place it into the fire. Then I read further and it said that was the problem with instant messaging. Once you send it, its gone. Your feelings at the time you wrote it, might change later, but its too late, the damage or whatever has already been done. This does not excuse my behavior. take care area 43

 

[DS]

Nice analogy area43, I`ve said a few things I regretted by posting in haste myself.I think we all have.The thing is, the people in here are
allies that you can give or seek advice from.Everyones different so
you will get a lot of conflicts,but thats a good thing. If you take the
time,like you said, to determine why someone could think so differently
from you,and respond from the heart,then we have something here
that most people dont have.
Ok nuff said...cheers

 

[tieguy]

Jonfrum could be any one of a number of people in the employ of the company.
Despite what some people might think, we are not all dumb a$.
I, too, enjoy his writings, thoughts and insight.

Not sure why you would think anyone called jon any such names?

 

[tieguy]

I do seem to like to dodge bullets so let me try to explain what may be on some peoples minds and the you guys are free to fire away.

Jon is willing to post his name and email address.

Jon is not willing to get a membership.

Jon loves to participate here and frequently posts some very insightfull things.

jon loves to post here but does not take advantage of a membership which would also give him additional communication privledges that his anonymous posting status does not allow such as instantaneous posting and the private messaging which allows him the otpion to have side bars with members.

Some of jons info is so good some members wondered if he is not connected to sources not available to the general public. He very likely could just be someone well read, who has done his homework but the anon ID coupled with what may at times be inside information makes some wonder.

I could care less who Jon is. I do have to admit I wonder why he would post here as much as he does and put up with the inconvience of posting anon style.

 

[Cole]

I wasn't asking why he didn't register out of a derogatory tone, for the record.

 

[area43]

Hi folks, I would like to say my final piece on the whole matter on Jon. To give you a better understanding of why I took the route I did on addressing the issue. First and foremost I do deeply regret that I went thay way in the beginning. Ok, not to wear that out.

Jon I just want to say this, what I am about to say to you is to help you, believe it our not. This is not an accusation, just my opinion on the info I have before me. I truly believe in helping people and the proof of that is in my posts. I may not always have the most tack, but my intensions are always pure. Before I start, I have to say this, In the court of law circumstantial evidence can be used in a case. The best example of this is the second OJ case, where the family took OJ to court and sued him for damages, they won. The family did not necessarily need evidence, just circumstantial evidence, meaning very little or no proof required at all.

Ok, now I must tell you what happened in our center a few years ago. A certian driver, I'll first give you a little bio on him, married,3 children,Army officer, artillery unit, had a degree in business and was kind of a hot head,but thats beside the point. This particular driver, wanted to get his degree in accounting, so he took night classes and the sups would accomadate him when he wanted to get off early(taking stops off). After he received his acct. degree, he applied for a accountant job with UPS. Long story short, some time later he was fired for looking into company emails with out authorization. Funny thing now, is that he has a high level mgt job with Fedex.

Jon, I and others, have notice that you have access to info that the rest of us do not. Jon believe me, I do my homework and your info amazes me. Circumstancial evidience, thats what I have here folks. Jon, I want to help you, if this is the case, than please stop what you are doing. Folks I believe Jon in his 33 years has either befriended a UPS insider(salary employee) and receives his info in that manner. He has that insider in his back pocket, so to speak. This I believe is the main reason, Why Jon does not register, he dosent want to risk the insiders(salary employee) or his own employment.

In closing, Jon if this isnt the case, than just ignore this post all together and keep posting. If you are in fact, getting insider info, I believe its an unethical act you are committing. Jon, you need to stop before its too late. That is the only advice I can bestow on you now. Please Stop. Well, Cafers I got that off my chest. I ve said my piece. I pray that you now have a better understanding of why I acted the way I did. Take care area 43

 

[trickpony1]

Area43-
good post and we appreciate your concern. I have concerns also.

1) the owner/author of this website has assured me/us that we can't be traced/tracked through this website.
2) what damage has Jon done through his/her postings?
3) what/who has been compromised by Jon's posting?
4) I don't understand the "witchhunt" for Jon. It's a free country and he/she can say what he/she wants in real life and, within confines, on this website.

Has Jon touched a nerve somewhere?

If you want to get technical, I've learned things from this website that I would have NEVER learned otherwise so maybe this website should be shut down/censored by the state like they do in communist countries.

Just a thought....I could be wrong.

 

[area43]

Area43-
good post and we appreciate your concern. I have concerns also.

1) the owner/author of this website has assured me/us that we can't be traced/tracked through this website.
2) what damage has Jon done through his/her postings?
3) what/who has been compromised by Jon's posting?
4) I don't understand the "witchhunt" for Jon. It's a free country and he/she can say what he/she wants in real life and, within confines, on this website.

Has Jon touched a nerve somewhere?

If you want to get technical, I've learned things from this website that I would have NEVER learned otherwise so maybe this website should be shut down/censored by the state like they do in communist countries.

Just a thought....I could be wrong.

Ill do my best in answering the questions. Others might have a better answer, so here it goes. Side note, I would sincerely like to keep a good honest respectful dialoge on this issue. Trick, I appreciate your efforts.

1)Yes, we do give our email address. Trick that is a good ?s. I believe they could find out where you live. Cheryl, this is not an attack on my part. I and the majority cafers honestly believe Cheryl is great. I have great respect for her and her hard work. Just think folks, all the news articles,dl artwork LOL, friendships and bonds created, etc, etc. Thanks Cheryl and keep up the great work.

Wow, this could be a long post,LOL. Folks back to the subject. 1)There is a way to trace an email, to its location. Its just like tracing a call(911). This is what I have read, I cant verify it. It could still be in the works. I believe this site is on the up right. I believe its ran with your total privacy in mind. The mods also do a great job in taking out names and phone #s when posted.

2)Jons posting,(damage ?). Trick, I strongly believe the real issue and again go back to ? #1. Its the right of privacy, just like you asked. It dosent matter if it hurts or harms someone. Privacy, I strongly believe Jon has violated the right of privacy, by tapping into the companys email.

3)Trick, again back to my answers to 1 and 2. This is just a thought(Im serious here) maybe someone can do a poll on it. The question, would be, Do you feel Jons posting has compromised you or the company in any way shape or form? Dont ask me to do it, Trick Im a computer dummy. LOL

4)Trick, this is not a witch hunt for Jon. Its a concern that should be brought up for discussion. Actually, Trick you answered your own ? in your question. Yes your right, this is a free country, I and the rest can post anything we want respectfuly. Again, Trick, its the privacy issue. That is what Im really tring to drive home here folks.

Has Jon hit a nerve? Maybe its just a legite concern on my part. Trick, Im trying to be objective here. I have seen in the past, that if people favor a person or lets say a cause and another person posts some obvious and honest concerns against it. They are considered to be cruel, unsensitive, and non understanding. Basically, they just want you to shut up and take it. That is not my style and Trick, from reading your many posts I definetly believe its not yours either. Sorry folks Ive gone way toooo long, take care area 43

 

[sawdusttv]

Guys, I believe that you're reading to much into this subject.
Jon has his opinion on things just as we all do, that is what a forum is all about.
I have my opinion and my say on a subject and people argue my points. Call it a witch hunt, a personal attack, or just a disagreement. It really doesn't matter. If you don't like being attacked or disagreed with, "don't post"

Lord knows, I have been hit from all sides on this forum.
I have been angry with people and have come to see eye to eye with people that at one time or another I didn't care for.
That is what a forum is all about. A large cross section of different people and different ideas, coming together to try and sort out an issue or issues in an effort to get to the bottom of that issue, in order that we all can better understand the things that are going on around us. That takes a lot of different points of view to get to a solution, and that includes Jon's point of view. Which I believe has only added to our discussions not taken away from them. Lord know that I haven't agreed with Jon's point of view always, but I take what I can from them and use them to better understand what is going on.
In closing, I will say, agree or disagree with all of you people, I have learned much from you and hope that I add the same to this forum. So, keep throwing those punches guys, and I 'll keep ducking and firing back with a left hooks.

 

[area43]

Guys, I believe that you're reading to much into this subject.
Jon has his opinion on things just as we all do, that is what a forum is all about.
I have my opinion and my say on a subject and people argue my points. Call it a witch hunt, a personal attack, or just a disagreement. It really doesn't matter. If you don't like being attacked or disagreed with, "don't post"

Lord knows, I have been hit from all sides on this forum.
I have been angry with people and have come to see eye to eye with people that at one time or another I didn't care for.
That is what a forum is all about. A large cross section of different people and different ideas, coming together to try and sort out an issue or issues in an effort to get to the bottom of that issue, in order that we all can better understand the things that are going on around us. That takes a lot of different points of view to get to a solution, and that includes Jon's point of view. Which I believe has only added to our discussions not taken away from them. Lord know that I haven't agreed with Jon's point of view always, but I take what I can from them and use them to better understand what is going on.
In closing, I will say, agree or disagree with all of you people, I have learned much from you and hope that I add the same to this forum. So, keep throwing those punches guys, and I 'll keep ducking and firing back with a left hooks.

Saw, great ending,lmao. Makes me want to go see that Rocky movie. Wait! I just had to duck. Felt some air from a left hook coming from trick(all in fun).

Jon, again all I want to say if your up to something unethical and folks I been keeping away from saying illegal, but to be honest that is what it really is. Perfect example is Martha Stewart, a little insider info put her in jail. Jon you have 33 years with this company. Its not worth getting caught and losing it all. Trick, I believe you want respect in people honoring your privacy in return you should repects others right to have privacy, I believe you do want everyone to repect each others privacy. Even a company such as UPS deserves that right. Lets not pick and choose. Lets be fair and not be a hypocrite. I say this in response to your ?s. They tend to have a bias ring to them. Being objective is the key.

In closing, Trick. I do enjoy your posts. There's an edge to them. Even when I dont agree I still respect your posts. take care area 43

 

[area43]

Area43-
good post and we appreciate your concern. I have concerns also.

4) I don't understand the "witchhunt" for Jon. It's a free country and he/she can say what he/she wants in real life and, within confines, on this website.

Trick, not to pick on you, but I would like to futher address, the question you made on the "witchhunt" for Jon. I truly believe in helping people and I believe you feel the same.

Let me tell you about one of Elvis Presley's doctors. In a interview with this one particular doctor they asked him, How was it like treating the King of Rock? He's response was, "I told Elvis what he needed to hear, not what he wanted to hear. I told him he needed to lose wait and straighten his life out. If looks could kill, I would be dead right now. We all know how much he loved to eat and take the meds. The other doctors were intimidated by him. Gave him whatever he wanted(meds) and told him what he wanted to hear". The doc said," He was shaking in his boots", when he told Elvis this. Elvis, thanked him later, after he did his Hawaiian via satelite concert.

Trick, if you truly do care about someone you are going to try and correct his inapprioate behavior. What kind of friend, would just keep patting the person on the back and let him proceed. Trick, I dont know if you have children, but every father knows, that to spare the rod is to spoil the child. If you truly love your son or daugther,you will do what has to be done(address the problem head on, no hiding around the bush), before it gets out of control. I guess, I grew up in a different time. Old school, Tuff love. Enuff said on that. take care area 43

 

[Cole]

If the info is correct then how he got it is really irrelevant, it's a matter of discussing/debating the issues he and others bring up.

 

[RockyRogue]

If the info is correct then how he got it is really irrelevant, it's a matter of discussing/debating the issues he and others bring up.

I CATEGORICALLY DISAGREE, SIR!!!!!!!!! If anyone obtains information by doubtful means, outright deceit or anything less than normal course of duties, its an unethical act IMHO. -Rocky

 

[area43]

If the info is correct then how he got it is really irrelevant, it's a matter of discussing/debating the issues he and others bring up.

Cole, I have alot of respect for you. Do you really mean what you say. Wow, so your one of the guys that are patting him on the back as he goes to jail. To be honest with you Cole. What you are doing is very selfish to put it lightly. So, jon keep doing what your doing because your buddies sure dont care about you. I like Jon, believe me. Its what he does that concerns me. Cole, you have become like a herion addict to Jon's info. Cole you must wein yourself off of it. Cole you are condoning an unethical act.

Cole, you have just revealed a character flaw in yourself. If I ran a restaurant business and had a secret recipe for apple pie. First, I would not hire a person, such as yourself. Cole with your school of thought, it would be okay to give my recipe to the competition without my knowledge or authorization.

Remember, that little thing called "watergate". Wire taps and ease dropping. Thats all I have to say on this post. take care a43

 

[RockyRogue]

Cole, you have just revealed a character flaw in yourself. If I ran a restaurant business and had a secret recipe for apple pie. First, I would not hire a person, such as yourself. Cole with your school of thought, it would be okay to give my recipe to the competition without my knowledge or authorization.

I'd have to agree with Area43, Cole, as far as condoning an unethical act.

Cole, its called confidentiality for a reason. Its also called non-public/internal memoranda. I have no proof that's what JonFrum has posted but it makes sense. I'm not trying to attack Jon or Cole here. However, internal memoranda is just that: internal. There's a reason its not publicly available.

Area, I could be wrong but it'd be something akin to trademark, copright or patent infringement to knowingly give a recipe to a competitor. Here again, there's a reason so many companies (not counting UPS in this group--yet) that have management sign no-compete clauses. I was about to go p/t sup a number of years ago and had to sign some paperwork. One of the things I had to sign lit up a very, very small alarm in my head. I read it, looked up at my friend/t'er and said, "This is the 'poor man's' version of a no-compete, isn't it?" He was caught completely flat-footed. He blinked in obvious surprise and said, "Similar but different in these respects," and rattled them off. I had a point to make with the guy and knew what the differences were before he told me. I'm directing this to pt and ft management at UPS: NO COMPETES ARE COMING!

Area, I apologize for hijacking this thread. -Rocky

 

[Cole]

Hold on folks,

This is a message board, and Jon, has posted what he has posted, and I can't prove either way if it was by ethical where the info came from, so it just seems like a cop out to try and point to anything other than the topic. If it was done dishonestly, as far as this discussion, I have no way to prove, but the points are still there.

"A heroin addict to Jon's info" hardly, I haven't even read all his info.

As far as stealing recipes, etc...actually some friends of mine run a restraunt and had that happen recently, and and I don't condone stealing, at any level.

I am not sure which info Jon posted that you think was stolen, or gained dishonestly, and if he did, or is doing that, it is wrong, so what are you talking about specifically? If he has gotten it by dishonest means, that's on him, and I wasn't defending him, but it just seemed that answering the points of the debate/discussion were avoided.

Unless someone can prove he got it by dishonest means, then that is possibly "baring false witness", is my point.

Either we can argue his points, or not, because again, I cannot prove where the info comes, and I am here to discuss issues. Now I'll have to go back and read what he posted that brought on these acusations.

 

[Cole]

I CATEGORICALLY DISAGREE, SIR!!!!!!!!!

If anyone obtains information by doubtful means, outright deceit or anything less than normal course of duties, its an unethical act IMHO. -Rocky

I agree with your disagreement but on a mb, the issue isn't how he or anyone got certain info, and on the subject of APWA or Teamsters, it's about putting the facts out there on your particular position, so people get a better understanding from all angles, as this will impact us all quite a bit. That's what I was trying to say.

 

[area43]

Hold on folks,

This is a message board, and Jon, has posted what he has posted, and I can't prove either way if it was by ethical where the info came from, so it just seems like a cop out to try and point to anything other than the topic. If it was done dishonestly, as far as this discussion, I have no way to prove, but the points are still there.

"A heroin addict to Jon's info" hardly, I haven't even read all his info.

As far as stealing recipes, etc...actually some friends of mine run a restraunt and had that happen recently, and and I don't condone stealing, at any level.

I am not sure which info Jon posted that you think was stolen, or gained dishonestly, and if he did, or is doing that, it is wrong, so what are you talking about specifically? If he has gotten it by dishonest means, that's on him, and I wasn't defending him, but it just seemed that answering the points of the debate/discussion were avoided.

Unless someone can prove he got it by dishonest means, then that is possibly "baring false witness", is my point.

Either we can argue his points, or not, because again, I cannot prove where the info comes, and I am here to discuss issues. Now I'll have to go back and read what he posted that brought on these acusations.

Cole, good post. I take back the herion addict, If I remember correctly your a wine conasiour(drinker)lol. I also would hire you at my fictious restaurant, but I would keep my eye on you(light hearted). Im not a big fan of apple pie. Anyhow, If you read "permalink #27" I too would like to know the facts. Circumstantial evidence, there is a case for it. Example, Lets say your son comes home one day and smells like pot. Cole your suspicions without the facts would be that he has smoked pot. That might not be the case, but you would address the concern before it got out of hand.

Rocky, my analogy on the apple pie, might not have been the best. I was trying to conviege the privacy issue. Ill give you your props, your attention to details and you seem to really know your stuff. Anyhow, dont worry about the hijacking, come and join us, its just Trick, Jonfrum,Saw,Cole and myself knocking down a few tequila shots. That other Guy, passed out after the first one. Big pansy, I hope he didnt here that. LOL. I just wish more people would join in. Especially the lovely ladies(Sammie,Aspen,More,Tooner,Chan,Braze,etc, etc sorry I couldnt name them all, too many shots I guess) and dudes treat them with respect. Well gotta go, take care a43

 

[tieguy]

I'm trying to keep up so let me paraphrase and make sure I have it:

1) it seem odd that Jon is willing to post his name but not create an ID here and enjoy the additional beni's of membership?

2) Jon seems to have some pretty good information at times that almost seems to come close to being inside information?

3) That coupled with jon not registering makes you wonder if he is a well connected or has a well connected source somewhere?