There are a lot of job out there that you don't even need a high school diploma or drivers license and they pay better then UPS.
listen up UPS, Teamster we are people!!!
- Thread starter flipstyle9
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There are a lot of job out there that you don't even need a high school diploma or drivers license and they pay better then UPS.
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Which ones where and how do I sign up? Can you apply online? I have clean pee and will travel.
PS - UPS doesn't require a HS diploma. Work with a few guys who don't have it.
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Are we talking about "a lot of job
I can't think of a single wage paid in my area that pays higher than my hourly wage that does not require a high school diploma. If nothing else... they require a high school diploma to winnow out the applicants. More than likely, they are union if their hourly wage is higher. Even those don't typically make more than we do because they don't pull the consistent straight time or overtime that we do (some do but they still require a high school diploma and many require a DL). There is the obvious caveat of on-call positions. The whole point of "on-call" is generally that you drive out to the urgent/emergency job (requires a DL) even if you work for a small outfit that didn't require a high school diploma.
The framing of your comment requires us to consider salary positions. Who makes salary high enough to exceed the average top-scale Package Driver and didn't need a high school diploma at a minimum to get the job? Commission jobs... I have coworkers at UPS who work at UPS because they couldn't support a family on commission. Entrepreneurial endeavors... I suppose you may not need a high school diploma and many where you don't "need" a DL. Not sure how that equates into "lots".
If we were talking about lots of jobs that pay better than UPS PT jobs... I agree. That used to be the whole point of the UPS PT life balance. Work at UPS for bennies and accruing seniority (to later use for better PT position or move into FT position) and go to college and/or work a second job (FT or PT but without bennies) to put food on the table and roof over your head or watch the kids if you couldn't find a second job that paid better than what daycare cost while the spouse worked the FT money job with no bennies. The last Contract kind of put a kink in the compensation hose when bennies were delayed. Add a bad economy and a shifting labor market where it is more difficult for today's new hire to make money outside UPS than what it used to be and rising costs of college... new hire PTers are feeling a tighter squeeze if they didn't roll into UPS Orientation in a position where UPS is not the primary means of supporting themselves. That family man that used to make the sacrifice and work his FT job and PT UPS for bennies isn't as likely to apply as he used to be.
We have a FT drivers in progression (without guaranteed hours per Local Rider) who make less than 175% Federal Poverty Guidelines (FPG) which doesn't consider the higher cost of living but the wages guaranteed in our Local Rider are supposed to take into account. I don't know how much less than 175% FPG, I just know they qualified for a State health care program. Depending on how much less, they might still be below 175% FPG when they make top-scale because they likely still won't have guaranteed hours yet and minimum scheduling plus covering vacations doesn't get them above 150% FPG at top-scale.
Due google search you will be surprised.
I am at odds with a few of your perceptions and while I can understand where you come from, I dont believe you fully understand what a union shop, member or local is all about.
First, our dues go towards many things and those "many" things may NEVER affect you directly. In other cases, it may benefit you greatly over time. The calculations for union dues uses a formula of 2 1/2 times your hourly wage. So for instance, as a full time driver, i pay 82.00 dollars a month currently. Every time we get a raise, so does our local.
That money pays the wages of the agents, officers, office staff, buildings, cars, arbitrations, legal fees and every other business need of the local. For instance, in your local, they have to have an attorney on retainer at all times, and that could cost your local between 10K and 15k a month. The local also has to have an accounting firm to manage the money (dues) and that could cost about the same depending on the size of the local.
There is also the cost of running the local office, desks, chairs, computers, phones, paper, cabinets and every other thing you could imagine that an office needs. This costs thousands a month when you include office staff.
There is also travel and expenses for the local officers and staff.
Now, your dues, covers all these expenses as well as "most" of it going into investments. In my local, we receive over 800K every month in dues and that money is invested into many accounts that earn interest. We also invest in property that generates revenue.
In case of a strike, the purpose of those investments is to create strike funds that can be used to pay employees if a strike should occur.
You may never get in trouble and never need the service of the union, but your brothers and sisters in your local may need that help and your contribution, whatever it is goes towards paying for those services.
Currently, I am paying 82 dollars a month in dues, and as a part timer, there is NO WAY you are paying the same. This you are incorrect in stating. The calculation is the same, but your total is far less than what i pay.
AS for you being the core of the company, lets not elevate ourself too high on the food chain. Every aspect of the operation is a tough job and when you consider that a driver (like me) works close to 60 hours a week, you couldnt possibly work harder than I as I put in more hours in one week than you do in a half month.
Preload, unload is a rough job and there is very little respect shown by the company, but thats the system they created. It didnt use to be that way, but today its about turnover and fresh faces. UPS doesnt care if you last one week or 1 year, there is always a thousand people behind you ready to come in and do your job. Thats why they keep "dumbing" down the jobs with technology.
In the old days, UPS would make investments in their hub personnel because they knew someday they would represent the company on the street. Today, not so much. The kids with multiple tattoos, huge holes in thier ears, piercings in their faces are NOT the type of people UPS wants in browns representing the company , so they do everything they can to burn those people out.
I will agree that the pay is not fair and starting pay is still the same as it was years ago, and the union extending the term of establishing seniority is unfair, but thats the nature of business when you have republicans calling for cuts to middle class workers.
You have people on this board who are fully satisfied with paying you as little as humanly possible because they feel that the corporations should be protected before you and if you vote and vote for a republican, then you are only contributing to your own demise.
This you should really think about.
You have a tough job, is it the core? No. Is it important? YES. Do the majority of preloaders do the job correctly? NO.
There are other perceptions of your "job" that you have to consider. While you may feel super important, others may ask that guys like you be replaced for messing up their delivery days with misloads and off areas.
Its all relative.
The union should fight for better wages, a better benefit scale and better working conditions, but at the end of the day, its the easiest trade off for them as they protect the full timers.
It sucks, but thats how its negoiated.
Peace
TOS
*shakes head* You came on here and made the claim yet have not offered a singular FT job that makes more than an average top-scale UPS driver (that you don't need a high school diploma or DL) much less any indication whatsoever of "lots". What I can easily Google for you is the average weekly earnings of someone with less than a high school diploma ($451 in 2011 according to the BLS) and a Master's Degree ($1,263 according to same source). We aren't even considering what average earnings are for less than high school diploma AND no DL. Seeing as average top-scale UPS driver makes well in excess of average worker with less than a high school diploma and many of us make more than average worker with a Master's Degree (not surprising, as I make more than my wife who has a Master's Degree and is a university professor), I am going to bet I will be surprised if there are "lots" of these jobs you are discussing. Interestingly, Googling "jobs that pay more than UPS", brought up a blog comparing UPS to Fedex that claims Fedex pays better job for job and discusses better starting vacation benefits but you still need. That is not surprising since it is pretty universally understood you start out making more at Fedex but you are better off in the long run at UPS if you don't cherish family time and money is important factor.
All the same, I am not necessarily giving a free pass to flipstyle9. I am acknowledging that it is more difficult for him than it was for many of us. More so from the sounds of it since it seems he hired on at UPS without a solid understanding of what he was getting into and boatloads of unreasonable expectations. I don't know what you expected flipstyle9; I hope you learn sooner than later that you should expect to go get another job to pay the bills because your UPS job probably ain't gonna cut it. I know it didn't cut it for me or those I support when I was a PTer and I was getting health benefits from peak season still when I hired on permanently as a PTer in February.
I will apologize to UpstateNYUPSer because I did not portray his posts in the most accurate manner. His posts were less advocating for two-tier pay scale and more his opinion that it may be coming down the pike. He did offer to accept a wage freeze if it goes to PTers in some other threads. I still think voting "Yes" for two-tier wage scale is selfish (regardless of the reason) and I am not willing to compromise on that.
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
Too much is very subjective. Do I think you guys earn your money? Yes.. However, do I think UPS is not as competitive as we should be, since our labor costs is so much higher? YES..
FDX has shown people will do a delivery job for a lot less money.
Sure, I'd like to have peace on earth, goodwill toward man. No wars, no cancer etc etc. But we aren't living in a utopia. Just like the vast majority of people shop around for good deals on gas, food, cars, clothing. So do businesses shop around for good rates on shipping. Plus.. more and more couriers are getting a larger foothold on our business. Amazon itself indicated they are trying same day delivery in metro areas using couriers. Many very large companies are using couriers to deliver their product, so it's not JUST FDX as our competition. But they are the lions share of it.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
OK, this just seems to be a really ignorant statement if you are talking about drivers.
I have to assume you are talking about part time jobs.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
It kinda makes sense to me.. The current driver position at $30/hr isn't just a 3 year progression, it takes 10 years waiting as a part-timer, then an additional 3 year pay progression as a driver. Which makes the grand total a 13 year pay progression to get to $30/hr. I'll bet there are quite a few jobs (no education required) that could arguably be better than this 13 year pay progression.
It does kinda make sense EXCEPT for the qualification that it could be done WITHOUT a high school diploma or DL. That was where it unravelled because the average worker without a high school diploma only makes $451/week. That continues past the ten year mark when UPSer goes full-time. That continues past the fifteen year mark when UPSer is making well over double and the UPSers total income from UPS (not including income from other jobs while UPSer was PT) is starting to close in fast on being equal with average non-diploma worker's total income. $451/week continues all the way to UPSers eventual retirement. Even Central States UPSers on the Company retirement are doing better than $451/week earned and some UPSer retirees are make two and even three times that in retirement. That pension is the main reason we subject our bodies to this (or least that is the case for me). what kind of pension is worker without a high school diploma likely to be earning (there are exceptions of course)?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
We (FT drivers) are exceptionally well paid for what we do with the minimal requirements needed to do it.
InsideUPS
Well-Known Member
Why would any individual in any situation try to alienate his or hers only allies in their quest for better pay or working conditions? Making inflammatory comments against your coworkers is not the way to better your position in life. EVERYONE generally knows what they are getting into when they start at UPS.
It is NO secret that the IBT has continually suppressed part-time wages and benefits in favor of improvements for full-time employees. Part-timers have no one to blame except themselves for their wage and benefit package. Bottom line is that part-time employees do not vote at contract time. IF you want to better your position in life, I would suggest that you first gain allies by NOT stating that most full timers have "lost touch of real physical labor". Unless you have worked in a 'brown cage" all day......I would probably keep my thoughts or comments to myself.
My suggestion, now that you received the attention that you want is to either quit UPS and find other work or become involved in making your life and the lives of other part-timers better at UPS. HINT: You won't do it by ranting on this forum and criticizing what full-time employees have rightfully earned.
menotyou
bella amicizia
I used to DD my co-workers to the meetings. (held at a local legion hall, where the beer is cheap) It got them to go, at least. It was an eye opening experience for them. There are still a few that go regularly. They realized to be able to whine successfully, you have to whine to the right people. 
packageguy
Well-Known Member
Did you make your book yet?
gotbrown
Well-Known Member
Please let us know when you quit, so we all can move on with our lives and know we are now better off when you are gone. It does not sound like you are a good fit for the union or ups, both hard work and patience is a requirement. Your last job must have been occupy Wall Street..
Then vote "No". You outnumber friend/Ters 3 to 1. You could vote no till they gave you guys $20/hour. If you guys would participate, you'd get whatever you demanded!
flipstyle9
Well-Known Member
Think about it you need to be around 15 years to make $25 that just doesn't cut it
flipstyle9
Well-Known Member
Joke
Just cause full timers make way more doesn't mean they should forget about where they came from. It is harder today to become ft. Let's be real IBT is for the drivers.
Hate all you want
Just cause full timers make way more doesn't mean they should forget about where they came from. It is harder today to become ft. Let's be real IBT is for the drivers.
Hate all you want
