Maybe getting rid of 2/3 isn't a good idea..
- Thread starter Utahloader
- Start date
I'm trying to not point out your ignorance but you're leaving me little recourse.
Please tell me you're not deluded enough to believe these "elections" operate under the same criteria Union elections do?
Are the governed in these elections freely offered the opportunity to write (and rewrite) their constitution every five years. Is every governed participant eligible to be nominated to run for office under simple eligibility rules? Are retaliatory measures in place for not voting in union elections?
I refer to Local elections as the best example members have to witness the extraordinary protections in place to guarantee clean elections, which are no where to be found in your linked examples.
Elections are not the only mechanism.
But it's not reality, it's a convoluted stretch of logic. Here's what your saying... if A=B, B=3, then A=dog.
Average members do what members have always done, support others who are willing to stand up.
Thankfully, some members do get involved, stand up for others, put targets on their own backs and take the hits for the greater good.
And then some others stay well hidden and try to be clever on anonymous forums, by making inane comparisons.
Takes every kind of people...to make the world go round.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
My ignorance is why I ask questions. Is your inability to answer them a result of yours?
I answered your challenge to name dictatorships that held elections.
Since these mechanisms are what I've been talking about all along, and we're on page three of the conversation, and you've just now caught up, would you care to explain what these other mechanisms are, how they work, and how an average member can make use of them?
That's a personal incredulity fallacy. Your inability to understand an argument, or the fact that you don't like it, does nothing to invalidate it.
Who's aiming at those targets? Are you saying that people have to take on an unreasonable amount of risk to run for office? That sounds characteristic of a totalitarian system to me.
Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you're doing the best you can. And I would never accuse you of trying to be clever.
Like people who claim they are insulted by being called silly, then turn around and call people ignorant and deluded? Yep, it takes all kinds. Hypocrites simply make the rest of us work harder at making the "world go round".
And it all circles back to my earlier conclusion, I'm wasting my time.
Good luck amigo, I tried.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Good, perhaps someone who understands the question and has an answer will chime in?
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
So, to sum up, a union official who cares about the people he/she represents, and wants to address concerns of the members, would have answered my inquiry directly, or at least been honest and said he/she doesn't know. What I got, instead, was every attempt to avoid answering the question about elected official accountability (outside of elections). I was personally attacked, accused of trying to start a witch hunt, given answers to questions I didn't ask, and simply jerked around. That is not the response you would expect from people who claim to care about democracy, and should care about transparency.
When the response to a question regarding official accountability elicits such defensive responses, it sort of makes you feel like there is something being hidden, or that people who were elected to their positions really don't want their constituents looking too far into their business. That is the behavior of totalitarianists, not proponents of democracy.
And on the subject of witch hunts, before anyone buys into a claim that I am trying to start a witch hunt, I ask that you think about what a witch hunt is. What does that term refer to? In every instance in history, witch hunts were tools used by people in positions of power against people who had no power to stand up to them. Usually they were an excuse to wipe out anyone who threatened the status quo. Sometimes they were just a distraction to turn the anger of the members of whatever group away from the authority figures, and onto powerless scapegoats. Victims of witch hunts were often murdered in extremely horrendous ways. You dishonor the true victims of real witch hunts by comparing what happened to them to my simply inquiring about internal accountability mechanisms for elected officials in the union. Pretty dispicable.
When the response to a question regarding official accountability elicits such defensive responses, it sort of makes you feel like there is something being hidden, or that people who were elected to their positions really don't want their constituents looking too far into their business. That is the behavior of totalitarianists, not proponents of democracy.
And on the subject of witch hunts, before anyone buys into a claim that I am trying to start a witch hunt, I ask that you think about what a witch hunt is. What does that term refer to? In every instance in history, witch hunts were tools used by people in positions of power against people who had no power to stand up to them. Usually they were an excuse to wipe out anyone who threatened the status quo. Sometimes they were just a distraction to turn the anger of the members of whatever group away from the authority figures, and onto powerless scapegoats. Victims of witch hunts were often murdered in extremely horrendous ways. You dishonor the true victims of real witch hunts by comparing what happened to them to my simply inquiring about internal accountability mechanisms for elected officials in the union. Pretty dispicable.
Last edited:
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
@zubenelgenubi want's to sit at home behind the computer screen, and hypothesize
about "what" might be going on. No real facts or evidence.... but, when explained
the process starts deflecting on his motivation when realizing there is leg
work involved. He was baffled that you can't print off forms, like a grievance.
Happens every month at the Local Union meeting....
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
More deflections and personal attacks. Anyone able to answer my questions?
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
You asked about the mechanisms involved, in filing charges against Union officials.
Answers were provided.... and you still want to postulate about nothingness ?
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Haven't gotten any answers to the questions I was asking. This whole thing has been an argument, that was the point. Arguing that the union is run like a dictatorship or a monarchy. You two have done really well in helping me demonstrate my position. Feel free to keep it up.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Can you distill it.... a little further ?
I can't speak for anyone else.
I'm still confused, what you are trying to accomplish ?
"The avenue is there.... if you want to walk the path."
BigBadBug.©BigUnionGuy
Last edited:
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
I think he is calling you "green" @zubenelgenubi.
Aw Bubblelicious, you know me better than that.
No names, no insults... I'm just trying to help the guy out.
Since he's trying so hard to be the brightest guy on the forum, it only follows that a name change is in order.
Zubeneschamali is the twin star of Zubenelgenubi...only brighter.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
While I dispute none of that, I also now know that:
~Zubeneschamali has long had a reputation of being the only naked eye star that oddly appears GREEN to the human eye.~
Maybe he's Irish...or thinks he is?
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
It's become clear that the communication gap between us is unbridgeable. I appreciate your time, but I will have to open the conversation up to anyone else with whom I might be able to reach an understanding.
I wouldn't say I was trying hard, or at all. I did give you a reason to expand your horizons and learn a little about astronomy, so there's that.
Thank you.
Spent more than a few dark evenings far from city lights star gazing with my kids.
