More Gov't Abuses Within Patriot Act

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid my world is not as exciting as the one you live in. I go to work, I go home, I sleep, cut the grass, go on vacation every now and then, watch a lot of games and work on projects around the house. There are no neocons, nor presidents working to enslave me in my world. The mexican drivers coming across the border? My sleeper teams get harrassed to death when they go through arkansas. I don't think the mexican truckers will do any better. god help them if they make it to tennessee or virginia where they have the DOT laws memorized verbatum. When I really want to lose sleep I think about Pelosi being speaker of the house. Now thats a nightmare.

Your whole problem Tie is you lack the ability to be in the right frame of mind while reading True Conservative's post to even have any chance at all of getting it. But not all is lost because I'm here to help!

Getting in the right mindset is as easy as having the right background music to set the mood thereby allowing the reader to fully absorb the total impact of what is being said. Below is a link to just such music. Your instructions are to click on the link and thereby starting the music file but then while the music plays, re-read TC's post and the impact will be astounding. I think once you listen to this music file attached below, I can completely guarantee your total mood will totally change.
:wink:

The X Files Theme - Jacks "MIDI Music"
 

The-UK-Guy

Tea anyone ?
We all know that spying on everyday joes like us is not the answer to the so called "threat of terror" I would imagine that people smart enough to blow up the world trade center etc.are smart enough to not talk about it over cel phones or write letters to each other . And knowing that the fbi can violate our privicy as they see fit I would hope that any one would be careful what they disclose over the airwaves . I will probably disapear mysteriously without a trace after this post because I know to much.......
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
We all know that spying on everyday joes like us is not the answer to the so called "threat of terror" I would imagine that people smart enough to blow up the world trade center etc.are smart enough to not talk about it over cel phones or write letters to each other . And knowing that the fbi can violate our privicy as they see fit I would hope that any one would be careful what they disclose over the airwaves . I will probably disapear mysteriously without a trace after this post because I know to much.......

Everyday Joes aren't being spied on. People that are suspected terrorists, and anyone that associates with them, are being targeted. The liberal media wants you to think that they are just spying on all of us at their leisure. NOT TRUE!
 

The-UK-Guy

Tea anyone ?
dont underestimate big brother, Brother you cant possibly say that for a fact , the media wants you to think that they are spying on terrorists and it looks like you fell for it , who do you think is able to get away with planning and executing mass destruction and mayhem undetected ?? obviousley not known terrorists , because they are in the lime light and not able to fart without the FBI recording it , no its the people that blend in and dont bring attraction to them selves ,every day joes like you and me ,those are the truly dangerous threats .
remember, " The best place to hide a tree is in the forest."
national security is no joke , 911 is the first time that americans have encountered such a devestating blow , if you go to other countries especialy the UK or Northern Ireland where there has been a fair share of terrorism, close circuit cameras can litraly follow you EVERYWHERE you go through populated areas such as London or Belfast inside of clubs ,bars resteraunts and outside. Huge data bases are kept with your personal information and video files with your face on can automaticly link to scotland yard obtaining your name age last known address outstanding traffic tickets and which way you wipe your butt clean and with how many sheats of paper . Take a look next time you are on the freeway or at a stop light, there are more and more out there every week , even you and I can access some of them LIVE through our computers so why do you think that the government doesn`t . These cameras are put up for what we are lead to belive OUR saftey , the fact is they cant say that they are really up to keep tabs on the citizens of this "FREE" country so some BS is made up about "suspected terrorists" to keep us all happy in our small and insignificent lives . I could tell you more but unfortuanatly this web site is not secure enough for need to know transmitions . but I do have two paper cups and a really long string ......


I love my country but I fear my Government !
 

The-UK-Guy

Tea anyone ?
but like someone else said , who cares if your not doing anything , whoever is watching me must be pretty godamed bored by now .
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Everyday Joes aren't being spied on. People that are suspected terrorists, and anyone that associates with them, are being targeted. The liberal media wants you to think that they are just spying on all of us at their leisure. NOT TRUE!

Big,

I would want and be inclined to think that except for one small point of order. The 9/11 event was crafted and carried out by known terrorists of Mid-Eastern origin and of Sunni religious belief. Most were from Saudi Arabia and I think the rest from Egypt but the point is they fit a very certain profile which you and I as well as others would agree on. And no I don't believe there was any gov't or Bush conspiracy behind this.

As a result of the 9/11 events, new procedures for boarding commercial aircraft were put in place but what has been reported are incidents of folks obviously fitting this type of profile who are given only the basic "look at" prior to boarding but at the same time, little old ladies of non mid-eastern extraction are pulled aside for a further "look at". There have been numerous incidents of folks nowhere near the terrorist profile being searched while those who do fit in effect, walk on by. All this being done to avoid the complaint of racial profiling and especially if something is found and then the accused party voids the action in court using the "equal protection" clause of the 14th amendment.

Now given this bureacratic lunacy that even your beloved Mike Savage (sorry if I butchered his last name) or even Limbaugh has ranted on is taking place, would it not seem plausible, even probable, that in fact the average "joe" is being looked at with the specific purpose of avoiding the "profiling" claim in case something is uncovered and goes to the point of being used in court?

You are dealing with lawyers my friend so you have to go with the track record (the 60's proved the gov't spies on the average joe for example) and the other fact is lawyers operate on precedence and there is precedence that the gov't spies on the average joe from time to time and for means we consider completely normal. Would you like to come over for a steak and beer with myself and my next door neighbor (criminal investigator for the IRS, now retired and a super neighbor I might add) and discuss some of the areas he can and learn just what goes on from time to time that you never hear about? And oh yeah, there are some great gut buster stories as well. Actually many more of them than the bad ones thankfully.

I do hope your blind naivete proves the right course at the end of the day but knowing the gov't track record on a number of fronts I just don't have the confidence in them that you do.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Big,

I would want and be inclined to think that except for one small point of order. The 9/11 event was crafted and carried out by known terrorists of Mid-Eastern origin and of Sunni religious belief. Most were from Saudi Arabia and I think the rest from Egypt but the point is they fit a very certain profile which you and I as well as others would agree on. And no I don't believe there was any gov't or Bush conspiracy behind this.

As a result of the 9/11 events, new procedures for boarding commercial aircraft were put in place but what has been reported are incidents of folks obviously fitting this type of profile who are given only the basic "look at" prior to boarding but at the same time, little old ladies of non mid-eastern extraction are pulled aside for a further "look at". There have been numerous incidents of folks nowhere near the terrorist profile being searched while those who do fit in effect, walk on by. All this being done to avoid the complaint of racial profiling and especially if something is found and then the accused party voids the action in court using the "equal protection" clause of the 14th amendment.

Now given this bureacratic lunacy that even your beloved Mike Savage (sorry if I butchered his last name) or even Limbaugh has ranted on is taking place, would it not seem plausible, even probable, that in fact the average "joe" is being looked at with the specific purpose of avoiding the "profiling" claim in case something is uncovered and goes to the point of being used in court?

You are dealing with lawyers my friend so you have to go with the track record (the 60's proved the gov't spies on the average joe for example) and the other fact is lawyers operate on precedence and there is precedence that the gov't spies on the average joe from time to time and for means we consider completely normal. Would you like to come over for a steak and beer with myself and my next door neighbor (criminal investigator for the IRS, now retired and a super neighbor I might add) and discuss some of the areas he can and learn just what goes on from time to time that you never hear about? And oh yeah, there are some great gut buster stories as well. Actually many more of them than the bad ones thankfully.

I do hope your blind naivete proves the right course at the end of the day but knowing the gov't track record on a number of fronts I just don't have the confidence in them that you do.

"Now given this bureacratic lunacy that even your beloved Mike Savage (sorry if I butchered his last name) or even Limbaugh has ranted on is taking place, would it not seem plausible, even probable, that in fact the average "joe" is being looked at with the specific purpose of avoiding the "profiling" claim in case something is uncovered and goes to the point of being used in court?"

Blind Naive? Lets say you are right. I can care less if the govt. wants to listen to me recieve calls from UPS to come work. Or calls from my mother because she just wants to talk to me because she hasn't seen me in months. Or calls from my wife while she is on her lunch breaks at work. Or if they want to listen to the calls I make to my friends to tell them how much I enjoyed the movie "300". Or calls to UPS. Or calls I make to make doctor appointments. Being that I am one of the "Average Joe's" I can safely assume that the thousands of other Average Joes out there would be an equally boring spy job. Why do I not care? Because I know that the only way I will be targeted is if I associate with someone that they already have an eye on. And I seriously doubt any govt agency is going to waste that much time and money on listenting to even a fraction of those thousands of boring calls just so they can avoid a racial profiling complaint. If they are listening to someone it is because they have a good reason for it. The procedure of pulling old women and people that don't fit the profile of a terrorist isn't done to avoid a racial profiling complain either. It's done because terrorists come in all colors, ages, shapes, and sizes. Israelis can vouch for that. Yes, it may be highly unlickely that an old women is going to be a terrorist but our government doesn't want to take chances. The Israelis have learned these lessons the hard way over the years and our govt. is apparently trying to avoid learning those same lessons the same way they did. So, I don't believe my view on this is naive in any way. I fail to see where the government has failed you in the past to warrant your distrust in them? Please do tell. If it's because of 9/11 I will be disappointed. If it has anything to do with Katrina then please don't even bother responding. I feel pretty good knowiing that they are trying to keep us safer. So, the govt. isn't what worries me. It's the seemingly apparent need by many Americans to be want with the govt to let it's guard down simply to avoid being pollitically correct.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
The procedure of pulling old women and people that don't fit the profile of a terrorist isn't done to avoid a racial profiling complain either. It's done because terrorists come in all colors, ages, shapes, and sizes.

You're right! You're right! I can see the real threat and potential that a 82 year old female of Methodist belief is going to hijack an airliner and fly it into tall buildings or strap on a bomb laden vest and explode it in a public area or build some type of WMD to explode on Sunday in Sunday School. Then again maybe someone themself is just so risk averse that they are afraid that some 82 year old Methodist female might get sick and tired of them and wallop their head with an umbrella. Amazing to go through life terrified of little old ladies!:tongue_sm

I can care less if the govt. wants to listen to me recieve calls from UPS to come work. Or calls from my mother because she just wants to talk to me because she hasn't seen me in months. Or calls from my wife while she is on her lunch breaks at work. Or if they want to listen to the calls I make to my friends to tell them how much I enjoyed the movie "300". Or calls to UPS. Or calls I make to make doctor appointments.

Big,
This one is real simple because the argument is pure economics. In an age where our gov't "CAN'T" and "WON'T" balance the budget, you blindly justify them going off and wasting even more money on goose chases that make us no safer at all. It's ironic the gov't listens to our phone calls so to speak (I don't think it's all that widespread) while at the same time in Afghanistan we are losing ground as the Taliban begins to regroup and rebuild. The Taliban you will remember gave life and sanction to Al Queda and Osama and all the while we chase phantom WMD's in Iraq. Oh, now it's bringing democracy to a troubled peoples. What's the story tomorrow?

The signs are there that trouble is brewing in Afghanistan and we're somewhere else not watching the real store. At the same time, we are growing debt at such a rate that even a super robust economy can't generate the tax revenue growth to keep up. At some point this will hit critical mass and then here's the scenario. Basic gov't services will face severe budget shortfalls and domestic policy will be at a crossroads of either eliminating many services or going away altogether. Elected officials will face a number of scenarios from raising taxes and cutting some services but also all areas will face problems. Raising taxes will effect the economy just as gov't cuts in services will. People and many people could face situations from job lost to financial hardships as the building ripple effect reverberates through the economy. Stocks will drop and so with capital gains tax revs. People's retirement accounts, especially the large group of babyboomers with their 401k's who are seen in the future as a huge inflex of leisure spending will have to vastly scaleback plans which also effects the economy. In short, our domestic house will become a trainwreck so much so that it will effect our ability as a military force to be the protector it should be. Economics will likely dictate a possible complete withdrawal of all military forces from the entire mideast region and most likely from other areas of the world as well. Then my friend, how do you purpose we defend against real or potential hostile acts that we could face? Is it even possible or plausible that this could also be a strategic move on the part of the forces that would like to destroy us? We seem to be following the historic patterns of past empires who become errogant, slothful and morally corrupt and begin a collasping process within so that in years ahead a much lesser force is able to walk over and just take what they want from the dying carcass. What's the first thing any army needs? Gold man, the answer is gold!


I fail to see where the government has failed you in the past to warrant your distrust in them?

You know, I can honestly believe in all sincerity on your part that you can fail to see where gov't has failed to the point of earning my distrust. There are many areas I could go into that would explain my position but I'm willingto almost bet you'd be unwilling to even for the briefest of moments to consider them so instead I'll stick with the economic theme laid out above in the hopes you pocketbook will speak louder. You like many Americans seem very risk averse so I could be wrong on this but here goes anyway. Click on the link below:
U.S. National Debt Clock
This is the US Federal Debt Clock and click your refresh button as fast as you can and see what the numbers do. As you did so what were your thoughts? No right or wrong answer here, just curious as to what you thought as you looked at those numbers.

If it has anything to do with Katrina then please don't even bother responding.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Boy it's obvious you don't know me at all making that statement. OK Big, you may have to look up these words but politically a fall under the term (plus or minus) libertarian anarchist. I say plus or minus because I'm not a purist either because what I won't condone on a federal level I will condone in certain conditions on a local level. I'd even entertain a local social security program if it's completely voluntary and not compulsary. Flipside, you didn't contribute, you get nothing even if you lay beside the road dying! And you thought you were the heartless bas+ard here! :wink: You can have all the empirical socialist/facist state you want if it's not compulsary on my part to join in. To borrow a phrase from my younger years, you do your thing and I'll do mine!

Local level control makes it easier for the citizen to watch and also monitor results to make sure what is being done was suppose to be done and maintain the highest potential of gov't accountability. IMO not 1 single red cent of federal money "should" have been spent to help anyone in the aftermath of Katrina. On the flipside I donate from my own money on a weekly basis even to this day to organizations who are still helping in the aftermath a the Katrina disaster. I happen to believe that private persons coming together can have a larger and greater positive impact than a gov't agency can and I also happen to believe the giving is manna from heaven for the heart of the individual who gives to help. Hope that puts that to bed!

Yeah I'd help the dying man on the side of the road but I don't want a gov't compelling me in any way to do it! I guess I'm not as heartless after all!
DARN!
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Ask the Israelis about old women with bombs. Ask the Israelis about old women and children that willingly, and some not willingly, turning themselves into human bombs.

I'm not blindly justifying anything. This "wilde goose chase" has resulted in the kiling of thousands of terrorists and our government's efforts here, including wire tapping, has resulted in the thwarting of terrorists attacks here and overseas. And to think Afghanistan is being lost shows you have been brainwashed or just refuse to except reality. You only believe what the liberal media shows you. The fact is that Afghanistan is no being lost. Despite what Commy Wolf Boy Blitzter says. What CNN doesn't show, or any other media outlet, is the many air strikes taking out clusters of Taliban and Al Queda fighters. The many engagements that result in 100s of their fighters being killed. I could introduce you to plenty of GIs that live in my apartment complex alone that can vouch for this and would also strongly agree with your assumption that we are losing Aghanistan, or Iraq for that matter. Does you belief that we are losing stem from the reports of the Taliban regrouping? Man you would have been crapping cinder blocks during WW2. German, Japanese, Italian, etc. forces regrouped many times during that war. No WMDs in Iraq? Maybe, maybe not. Does that justify your defeatist attitude towards our troops?

This country went through this economical debacle during each war it's ever been involved in. During WW2 for example: We were so broke they government would just print money as they needed it. All of these economical patterns you mention are part of war. It's the price we all have to pay. Freedom isn't free you know? And what Empire are you talking about? Surely you don't mean the U.S.? Love it or leave it.

Plus/Minus this, Anarchy that....When you take away the titles it still only boils down to what you believe. If you believe this country...YOUR COUNTRY...is an evil empire then that is your right but it makes people wonder why you continute to live here. You are right about the steady decline being similiar to other "empires", and I say empire because I can safely assume you are talking about the fall of Rome, but what you fail to realize is that Rome fell because of something called Moral Decay and that is the similiarity I see here. How can a country survive if millions of it's inhabitants hate it? I don't believe we are an Empire at all.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
The nickname (Empire State)is not related to the War for Independence. In the nineteenth century the word "empire" was often used in this country to suggest economic growth and progress. New York gained that sobriquet because of its great wealth and natural resources.
 

SeniorGeek

Below the Line
why is there an EMPIRE STATES BUILDING if America isnt an empire? this is just a question , I love it over here
The implications of that question are scary, especially when I consider the Flatiron building.

London has a building called "The Gherkin", but I think that is a nickname, not an official name.
I imagine it has many other nicknames.
 

CTOTH

Not retired, just tired
[/list]Anyway we shake it we will have to enclose, enslave or somehow deny access to be secure. locking your windows and doors being one example. Each of us has to determine how much we want to confine to feel safe.
I agree , each of 'us' (as in, we the people not our government) has to determine how much we want to confine to feel safe.
 
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