Nationalized Healthcare?

[blue efficacy]

What I see here are a lot of self centered people who have great insurance already, and are not part of the population who desperately needs it.

Government health care is bad? Ask old people about Medicare. Most like it very well. Government run!

"I don't want the gov't telling my doctor what they can do!" News for ya. Insurance companies are already doing just that. And since they get to skim off the top, they have a greater motive to deny care that a patient might really need.

What we have right now, is waste, waste, waste. Billions are made by the insurance industry. Dealing with the insurance companies is an extremely large expense for health care providers, which of course must be passed on to the consumers of health care. A single payer system, for instance, would allow all of this waste to be spent on health care directly, rather than be given to an insurance company executive.

As the system is right now, the insurers are plundering billions of dollars that could be used to save lives. This is, plain and simply, blood money.

And there would be the benefit of providing health care to millions who need it and aren't getting it now. But to view that as a benefit, you'd have to care about other people.

Alas, many Americans are complacent, willing to accept this god awful system. If any of you get cancer, diabetes, or any other chronic condition, you will look at things a whole lot differently. It's easy to say the insurance system is fine if you only use it for an occasional strep throat or something along those lines.

If you ever really need it, you would in fact see just how malicious these corporations are. They don't make such exorbitant profits by providing care to everyone who needs it, that's for sure!

There is a lot of misinformation that is being spread around by so-called "grassroots" organizations funded by insurance companies. Misinformation is being too kind, actually, as it is mostly downright lies.

I would gladly suffer increased wait time for non-essential care if it meant everybody got care. This is where your typical "me-me-me!" conservative would disagree.

Despite the economic reasons in favor of it, that is not the main reason I support it.

I support it because it is the right thing to do. What's right isn't always popular, and what's popular isn't always right. If it was, you'd still see a host of lynchings in the deep south to this very day, I reckon.

 

[filthpig]

I like my benefits at UPS. I like the care I receive when i go to the doctors.. for the post part.

However, I would be willing to pay a little more in taxes to ensure everyone in America has access to care that doesn't bankrupt them. It bothers me that 25% of the people in my age bracket don't have health insurance, and many of the ones who do are simply lucky to get it through their parents as a dependent. I have a few older friends who have gone bankrupt simply because they cannot afford their doctor bills. That shouldn't happen in the richest country in the world.

A "little" more in taxes? So you're saying that the income tax you're going to pay on the benefits you have is going to be "little"? That's where ithe funding for this turd of a bill is coming from.
Do you realize what the benefits you receive for free are worth on the market? Apparently not.
For me, the wife and 3 kids, I came up with about $12,000 a year. That puts my TAXABLE INCOME at about $102,000 a year. 25% of that is $25,000 a year in income tax. That's 3 times what I pay now. And I'm not standing for it.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

 

[klein]

A "little" more in taxes? So you're saying that the income tax you're going to pay on the benefits you have is going to be "little"? That's where ithe funding for this turd of a bill is coming from.
Do you realize what the benefits you receive for free are worth on the market? Apparently not.
For me, the wife and 3 kids, I came up with about $12,000 a year. That puts my TAXABLE INCOME at about $102,000 a year. 25% of that is $25,000 a year in income tax. That's 3 times what I pay now. And I'm not standing for it.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

West Germany took over 30% of a brand new population (East Germany), that was broke, had a currency that was worth nothing.
Not only did the provide healthcare for all of them, but also Pensions and Unemployment benifits and subsidized wage increases to be at par with west germans.
(Most factories in East Germany were condemed and had to be torn down, adding to almost every east german out of work).
Yet, Germany did it. They are still a powerhouse with huge trade surpluses, and a much better credit rating then that of the USA as of 2007 (before obama).

Your $12.000 medical expense, thats due to your silly system, that makes insurance, drug, companies fortunes.

Your goverment is out there spending trillions on warfare (under protection of your citizens). Yet, there is no protection at home for over 25% of the population.

Now, I'm probably gonna hear, no one gets denied emergency care. Thats true. But, by then it's too late and too costly.
Since they couldn't afford a routine check-up to prevent it in the first place.

Luckily, Germany is a "Socialist" country, otherwise 30% of thier population would be living in hunger, no jobs, no healthcare, nothing.
But, in the end, it all worked out. Paid for, and done and over with.
And Germany still the powerhouse in all of Europe.
With the East now booming, and being productive.

 

[filthpig]

West Germany took over 30% of a brand new population (East Germany), that was broke, had a currency that was worth nothing.
Not only did the provide healthcare for all of them, but also Pensions and Unemployment benifits and subsidized wage increases to be at par with west germans.
(Most factories in East Germany were condemed and had to be torn down, adding to almost every east german out of work).
Yet, Germany did it. They are still a powerhouse with huge trade surpluses, and a much better credit rating then that of the USA as of 2007 (before obama).

Your $12.000 medical expense, thats due to your silly system, that makes insurance, drug, companies fortunes.

Your goverment is out there spending trillions on warfare (under protection of your citizens). Yet, there is no protection at home for over 25% of the population.

Now, I'm probably gonna hear, no one gets denied emergency care. Thats true. But, by then it's too late and too costly.
Since they couldn't afford a routine check-up to prevent it in the first place.

Luckily, Germany is a "Socialist" country, otherwise 30% of thier population would be living in hunger, no jobs, no healthcare, nothing.
But, in the end, it all worked out. Paid for, and done and over with.
And Germany still the powerhouse in all of Europe.
With the East now booming, and being productive.

 

[Big Babooba]

BODY,.aolmailheader {font-size:10pt; color:black; font-family:Arial;} a.aolmailheader:link {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal;} a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal;} a.aolmailheader:active {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal;} a.aolmailheader:hover {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal;} Let me get this straight.

Obama's health care plan will be
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]written by a committee whose head says he doesn't[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]understand it,[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]passed by a Congress that hasn't read it,[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]signed by a president who smokes,[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes,[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]financed by a country that is nearly broke.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]What possibly could go wrong?[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

 

[steeltoe]

What I see here are a lot of self centered people who have great insurance already, and are not part of the population who desperately needs it.

Government health care is bad? Ask old people about Medicare. Most like it very well. Government run!

"I don't want the gov't telling my doctor what they can do!" News for ya. Insurance companies are already doing just that. And since they get to skim off the top, they have a greater motive to deny care that a patient might really need.

What we have right now, is waste, waste, waste. Billions are made by the insurance industry. Dealing with the insurance companies is an extremely large expense for health care providers, which of course must be passed on to the consumers of health care. A single payer system, for instance, would allow all of this waste to be spent on health care directly, rather than be given to an insurance company executive.

As the system is right now, the insurers are plundering billions of dollars that could be used to save lives. This is, plain and simply, blood money.

And there would be the benefit of providing health care to millions who need it and aren't getting it now. But to view that as a benefit, you'd have to care about other people.

Alas, many Americans are complacent, willing to accept this god awful system. If any of you get cancer, diabetes, or any other chronic condition, you will look at things a whole lot differently. It's easy to say the insurance system is fine if you only use it for an occasional strep throat or something along those lines.

If you ever really need it, you would in fact see just how malicious these corporations are. They don't make such exorbitant profits by providing care to everyone who needs it, that's for sure!

There is a lot of misinformation that is being spread around by so-called "grassroots" organizations funded by insurance companies. Misinformation is being too kind, actually, as it is mostly downright lies.

I would gladly suffer increased wait time for non-essential care if it meant everybody got care. This is where your typical "me-me-me!" conservative would disagree.

Despite the economic reasons in favor of it, that is not the main reason I support it.

I support it because it is the right thing to do. What's right isn't always popular, and what's popular isn't always right. If it was, you'd still see a host of lynchings in the deep south to this very day, I reckon.

"Grassroots" being funded by by insurance companies"? You obviously have not been listening to the protests across the nation.

You are spreading the misinformation. Us conservatives realize there is a problem. We do not want the government to handle our healthcare. Again, we do not want the government to handle our healthcare.

The United States government does nothing better than the private sector. Please show me where the US government does a more efficient job than the private sector.

We understand that the insurance companies are doing people wrong. Again, we just do not want the US government involved with our healthcare.

My take on the whole problem is the fact that the employer pays for medical benefits. UPS does not pay for my car insurance, my home insurance, etc. These policies are both resonable. I believe they are resonable becuase the premimums are not paid from Deep pockets. Why do people expect to have their company supply their Health Insurance? If you really look at it, it is crazy. This is the problem.

No one knows how much it cost to provide services. We do not compare pricing, like we do for our car insurance, home insurance, because all we have to pay is the co-pay.

The problem is that our insurance is provided by our job. We are not given a list of costs to choose from. All we do is see the bill and how much it did cost. We would be a lot better off if we were allowed to purchase insurance on an individual basis, and not have to compete with the UPS policies, just like every other type of insurance we buy.

 

[klein]

We understand that the insurance companies are doing people wrong. Again, we just do not want the US government involved with our healthcare.

They are already involved, otherwise they wouldn't give a rats !
They are paying over $6000.00 per capita on each US citizen.
Thats why they want to be more involved, and get those costs down (the highest in the entire world).
Don't worry, I think Obama just wants to shut out the middle-man (insurance companies) making billions every year. While each of you, are paying that back in taxes. (someone has to pay for $6000.00 per person).

 

[steeltoe]

They are already involved, otherwise they wouldn't give a rats !
They are paying over $6000.00 per capita on each US citizen.
Thats why they want to be more involved, and get those costs down (the highest in the entire world).
Don't worry, I think Obama just wants to shut out the middle-man (insurance companies) making billions every year. While each of you, are paying that back in taxes. (someone has to pay for $6000.00 per person).

Klein, I mean no disrespect, but here in the USA, the government does nothing, and I mean nothing cheap. Everything they do, they overspend. Their budgets are never met. Why in the world would we believe they are going to be able to cover healthcare cheaper and more efficient.

The middle man would now be the government. Myself and my doctor and the goverment. This is not hard to see, the government is the middle man in this plan.

Here is one fine example. The 'Cash for clunkers program". This was supposed to last until the end of the year. The money ran out in 6 days, not 6 months. Who in the world came up with the amount of money to last 6 months and where did they get there information. Now they have added another couple of billion dollars of my money so people who had no car note can now have a brand new car that gets 5 miles to the gallon better, but can't afford the car note.

$4,500.00 per person from our taxes to pay for a program that will not work. Mark my words, this will end up being like our housing program. Get people in cars and houses that they can not afford, then the repo man will make out like a bandit.

I have no idea the percentages, but my educated guess would be that most of these buyers, NOT ALL, were driving a clunker for a reason, they could not afford a new car. I drive a clunker, and my wife drives a pretty good car that will be paid off in 4 more payments. We thought about going for this deal, but decided that we would rather use the extra money in 5 months to pay down our other bills, instead of a car note for 5 more years.

It is a miracle that I did not need the government to help take care of my transpertation needs and I am better off for it.

 

[klein]

Klein, I mean no disrespect, but here in the USA, the government does nothing, and I mean nothing cheap. Everything they do, they overspend. Their budgets are never met. Why in the world would we believe they are going to be able to cover healthcare cheaper and more efficient.

The middle man would now be the government. Myself and my doctor and the goverment. This is not hard to see, the government is the middle man in this plan.

Here is one fine example. The 'Cash for clunkers program". This was supposed to last until the end of the year. The money ran out in 6 days, not 6 months. Who in the world came up with the amount of money to last 6 months and where did they get there information. Now they have added another couple of billion dollars of my money so people who had no car note can now have a brand new car that gets 5 miles to the gallon better, but can't afford the car note.

$4,500.00 per person from our taxes to pay for a program that will not work. Mark my words, this will end up being like our housing program. Get people in cars and houses that they can not afford, then the repo man will make out like a bandit.

I have no idea the percentages, but my educated guess would be that most of these buyers, NOT ALL, were driving a clunker for a reason, they could not afford a new car. I drive a clunker, and my wife drives a pretty good car that will be paid off in 4 more payments. We thought about going for this deal, but decided that we would rather use the extra money in 5 months to pay down our other bills, instead of a car note for 5 more years.

It is a miracle that I did not need the government to help take care of my transpertation needs and I am better off for it.

According to my canadian news story yesterday, cash for clunkers program in the states runs out on Monday.
I hope I heard that right, though.

The middle man being the goverment isn't bad at all.
It saves us a lot of money.
Even drugs and perscription drugs are roughly half the price here .

And your dead on, no sense wasting money on a new vehicle if you don't need it. You definilty don't need those extra car payments, and extra full coverage insurance costs that go along with it.

You are smart. Don't live for today, live for tomorrow, you'll be much better off.

 

[filthpig]

Klein, you continue to miss the point entirely. YOU live in CANADA. What works there may not work here. How many people in Canada? 35 million? That's a little more than 10% of the US population. How many illegals mooching off the government? Practically none. Don't compare the US to Canada. No comparison at all. Our problems and government are nothing like yours.
The simple fact is, most Americans do not want the govt. running their lives. Minimal involvement. Personally, I wish our govt. would close the Depts. of Education, Housing and Urban Development, HHS, and the IRS.
Let the states handle that and collect taxes on a flat rate.
I sure as hell don't want them running healthcare.
I agree that something needs to be done as a safety net but nothing as drastic as Lord Obama is proposing, and certainly not if he's going to try and fastball it through congress.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

 

[klein]

Klein, you continue to miss the point entirely. YOU live in CANADA. What works there may not work here. How many people in Canada? 35 million? That's a little more than 10% of the US population. How many illegals mooching off the government? Practically none. Don't compare the US to Canada. No comparison at all. Our problems and government are nothing like yours.
The simple fact is, most Americans do not want the govt. running their lives. Minimal involvement. Personally, I wish our govt. would close the Depts. of Education, Housing and Urban Development, HHS, and the IRS.
Let the states handle that and collect taxes on a flat rate.
I sure as hell don't want them running healthcare.
I agree that something needs to be done as a safety net but nothing as drastic as Lord Obama is proposing, and certainly not if he's going to try and fastball it through congress.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

Then compare it with the European Union. Has probably twice your population, yet healthcare for all.

Only same "apple" you can compare your system with is Turkey.
That is free of national healthcare. And doesn't belong to the EU.

 

[filthpig]

Then compare it with the European Union. Has probably twice your population, yet healthcare for all.

Only same "apple" you can compare your system with is Turkey.
That is free of national healthcare. And doesn't belong to the EU.

And don't compare us to Europe either. The only country there worth a damn is Germany, and that's only because of the Marshall Plan. All of the others are broker than we are because of the effects of being welfare states.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

 

[klein]

And don't compare us to Europe either. The only country there worth a damn is Germany, and that's only because of the Marshall Plan. All of the others are broker than we are because of the effects of being welfare states.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

Read the darn Mashall Plan, your talking to A German here, that went to German school.
Because of the Mashall Plan, East Germany was lost to USSR.
The Mashall plan divided Germany into 4 sections... American, French, English, and Russian.
The Germans got 3 of them back...
The 4th one only came after Russia broke up. And Germany took over 30% of new citizens to give them national healthcare, pension, Unemployement Bennies, etc,
You can't take over 25% just for healthcare ?

And as far as the other European Countries, better google "best standard of living by country " they are all above the states.
By no means are they broke.

 

[Crumbx]

A "little" more in taxes? So you're saying that the income tax you're going to pay on the benefits you have is going to be "little"? That's where ithe funding for this turd of a bill is coming from.
Do you realize what the benefits you receive for free are worth on the market? Apparently not.
For me, the wife and 3 kids, I came up with about $12,000 a year. That puts my TAXABLE INCOME at about $102,000 a year. 25% of that is $25,000 a year in income tax. That's 3 times what I pay now. And I'm not standing for it.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

 

[filthpig]

Read the darn Mashall Plan, your talking to A German here, that went to German school.
Because of the Mashall Plan, East Germany was lost to USSR.
The Mashall plan divided Germany into 4 sections... American, French, English, and Russian.
The Germans got 3 of them back...
The 4th one only came after Russia broke up. And Germany took over 30% of new citizens to give them national healthcare, pension, Unemployement Bennies, etc,
You can't take over 25% just for healthcare ?

And as far as the other European Countries, better google "best standard of living by country " they are all above the states.
By no means are they broke.

Sorry, I won't give in. You're not going to change my mind. And yes, the Europeans are broke. If they weren't broke they would be able to spend something to defend themselves. If it weren't for the US there wouldn't be a Europe as we know it.
Maybe it works for them, but we can't afford it.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

 

[Jones]

Sorry, I won't give in. You're not going to change my mind. And yes, the Europeans are broke. If they weren't broke they would be able to spend something to defend themselves. If it weren't for the US there wouldn't be a Europe as we know it.
Maybe it works for them, but we can't afford it.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
-Jonathan Swift

 

[Crumbx]

Benefits Required Under MCC

For most plans*, the 2009 "Minimum Creditable Coverage" standards include:

• Coverage for a comprehensive set of services (e.g. doctors visits, hospital admissions, day surgery, emergency services, mental health and substance abuse, and prescription drug coverage).
• Doctor visits for preventive care, without a deductible.
• A cap on annual deductibles of $2,000 for an individual and $4,000 for a family.
• For plans with up-front deductibles or co-insurance on core services, an annual maximum on out-of-pocket spending of no more than $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family.
• No caps on total benefits for a particular illness or for a single year.
• No policy that covers only a fixed dollar amount per day or stay in the hospital, with the patient responsible for all other charges.
• For policies that have a separate prescription drug deductible, it cannot exceed $250 for an individual or $500 for a family.

 

[Crumbx]

The above information is for non-union UPS employees who live in Massachusetts. This is the minimum coverage your health plan needs to have. If the new Visions 2010 Healthy Savings PPO (the so-called low cost alternative) doesn't meet these standards in some way, I suggest you discuss this during the coming weeks with the person HR sends in to deliver the "good news".

 

[Crumbx]

Sorry, I won't give in. You're not going to change my mind. And yes, the Europeans are broke. If they weren't broke they would be able to spend something to defend themselves. If it weren't for the US there wouldn't be a Europe as we know it.
Maybe it works for them, but we can't afford it.
Oh yeah, Obama is an idiot.

Also Israel receives 7 billion dollars per year in aid from the United States. Coincidentally, that is approximately their cost for providing health care to all their citizens. What irony!

 

[Catatonic]

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
-Jonathan Swift

Primary reason I post very rarely in Current Events.